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Thread: [DTB] Czech Pile

  1. #21

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by supachai View Post
    Oh interesting! I did not know that. I'll update the history.

    Hmm...Collective Brutality is interesting. I've really liked it in Tin Fins but not sure how well it fits here, since our card quality is high. What would you cut for it? Lightning Bolt maybe? I like having 4 1-mana removal spells though. I also wouldn't cut actual Thoughtseize since having that extra turn 1 interaction against Combo is critical.
    They run in here in the board, basically replacing vendilion, or bolt or thoughtseize when running These, like some list had 4 thoughtseize in the mix, someone throw a split of the two discard spells.
    I admit it fit more grixis list rather than our 4c build, yet is still a versatile card we can use, and should not be forgotten when needing help
    Vs storm seems (seems, I repeat) quite powerful.

    here at position 4/5 you can see a sample of what I'd still call Chez-pile, just green less.

  2. #22

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Small weekly Legacy tournament report. Went 2-1-1 but really should have been 3-1. Forced to draw a game I was clearly ahead in. Gotta learn to play faster.

    Round 1: Lands
    G1: He plays T2 Manabond after I played a T1 Ponder off Island. He dumps Dark Depths + Stage and I scoop after my draw since I donít have any outs and want to keep him guessing on what I am. (he later said he thought I was Sneak and Show)
    G2: He looms for a couple turns while I play a T3 Leovold. His Maze of Ith is pretty bad against that so I knock him down to 10 life pretty quickly. Somewhere I get a Needle on his Thespianís Stage and play a DRS and he scoops it up.
    G3: I Thoughtseize and see 3 Thespianís Stage, a Maze, and some mana lands. I get a DRS out and start chipping away at his life total. He attempts a Punishing Fire but I Force it. When he tried to get it back with Grove, I Surgical extraction. I land a Needle next turn and his only outs are Tireless Tracker and Dark Depths the hard way. I mess up and forget a Tabernacle trigger one turn but build back up with Clique and DRS. Clique is held at bay with a Maze but DRS is chipping away. He does make a Marit Lage but I have a Diabolic Edict. He plays a Tireless tracker and I go to bolt but he Crop Rotations in response and sacrifices 2 clues to save it (I should have Boltíd in response to the first clue coming into play). We go to turns and technically I am 1 turn off from killing him but he is a nice guy and scoops it up.

    1-0 (2-1)

    Round 2: BUG Delver
    G1: I see 2 lands the entire game, one of which is Wasted. Delver does what Delver does and rushes me down while Iím sitting on an Island with a hand full of removal.
    G2: I board in a ton of removal and manage to keep all of his early threats off the board. He eventually gets a Jitte but I keep him off tempo by killing his creatures as he tries to equip. At some point he gets a Hymn off nabbing Jace and Abrupt Decay. Meanwhile DRS and Strix are slowly chipping it away and he eventually packs it in.
    G3: Details are blurry here but we both make a couple creatures. I think a counter a Hymn. I flash in a Clique to trade with his Delver. He makes a Goyf but I Ponder into Jace and cast it (I knew it was safe since I just Cliqueíd him). Jace bounces Goyf, leaving me with 2 blockers to his DRS. He casts Toxic Deluge, killing my Strix and Snapcaster I believe, leaving his DRS. I brainstorm with Jace into a K-command to kill the DRS, Counterspell his Goyf next turn and fate seal him to victory.

    2-0 (4-2)

    Round 3: Grixis Delver
    G1: He goes T1 DRS. My T1 Thoughtseize gets Force'd and I know whatís coming: T2 TNN. Iím forced to race. I get a Strix and DRS out and it looks like Iím going to stabilize but my DRS gets bolted before I can gain life and I quickly die.
    G2: I kill a few early creatures. Against an empty board I get greedy and play a Jace. He Pyroblasts it and drops TNN. Iím not too far behind in the race though. Things get better after I stick a Clique + DRS. Iím barely able to out race him.
    G3: He gets 2 early Delvers but is extremely unlucky and he fails to blind flip 2 or 3 turns in a row. He eventually plays a Jitte. I waste his tempo a big by killing his Delvers as he equips. He double Dazes something (handwritingís bad). He plays TNN and DRS and I know the last card in his hand is a land. I toxic Deluge for 2 and he is basically out of the game. I have 4 cards with removal, CS, a Strix, and Jace when time is called. Iím unable to finish him in time but this was easily my game. Really gotta play faster :(

    2-0-1 (5-3-1)

    Round 4: Burn
    G1: I know heís on burn and already accept my fate. I stick a DRS and a Strix as my clock. I counter his first 2 plays which are Searing Blaze on my DRS. I counter a Price of Progress and play a few more creatures. Heís at 10 while Iím at a comfortable 17-Iím feeling pretty good about this. Unfortunately Iím out of counter spells at this point though and he has 5 or 6 lands out. EOT, he goes Pop, Pop, Fireblast, Fireblast, Bolt and Iím dead. Such is the burn matchup.
    G2: I Clique away a Price of Progress while he is tapped out and decide to just now play around Pop since I canít beat it regardless. He gets off a few Searing Blazes and Searing Bloods which really shuts me down and he just burns me out.

    2-1-1 (5-5-1), though could have been 3-1 (6-5) Not too bad for facing 2 bad matchups, and basically getting cheesed three different ways in my game 1's.

    Deck still feels solid, TNN is a problem G1 but not so much in G2/G3. Hymn to Tourach is a scary card and we should definitely keep in some number of counters for it against BUG. I did finally lose a game to Wasteland/mana screw but otherwise the mana was fine. Lands is a tough matchup but Surgical and Pithing Needle do work against them. Timing is super critical against them and donít forget your Tabernacle triggers!
    Last edited by supachai; 07-27-2017 at 05:38 AM.

  3. #23

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Somehow in my trading I ended up with 3 copies of Leovold.

    I think the answer is "no" but I want to confirm before I move the third copy: is there any reason whatsoever that I'd ever want to run 3? Like I said, leaning "hard no" but want to be sure I'm not missing something or weird variant somewhere.

  4. #24

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by walked View Post
    Somehow in my trading I ended up with 3 copies of Leovold.

    I think the answer is "no" but I want to confirm before I move the third copy: is there any reason whatsoever that I'd ever want to run 3? Like I said, leaning "hard no" but want to be sure I'm not missing something or weird variant somewhere.
    I've never seen it, nor would I advise it. Great card, but already tricky enough to get on board in my meta.

  5. #25

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    I've been having trouble against manaless dredge. My hate SB is 2 surgical and 1 spellbomb. I'm extracting bridge and then threats like Ichorid/ Nether spirit which recur. Should I be targeting dredgers? Cabal? Frustrating match up.

  6. #26
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by walked View Post
    Somehow in my trading I ended up with 3 copies of Leovold.

    I think the answer is "no" but I want to confirm before I move the third copy: is there any reason whatsoever that I'd ever want to run 3? Like I said, leaning "hard no" but want to be sure I'm not missing something or weird variant somewhere.
    I own 3 and have only ever played the 3rd in the board in BUG Aluren. I would advise against keeping the third, there's no other deck that runs that many.

  7. #27
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascension1223 View Post
    I've been having trouble against manaless dredge. My hate SB is 2 surgical and 1 spellbomb. I'm extracting bridge and then threats like Ichorid/ Nether spirit which recur. Should I be targeting dredgers? Cabal? Frustrating match up.
    Whenever a nontoken creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
    When a creature is put into an opponent's graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, exile Bridge from Below.


    Don't forget that part. Sometimes it's better to kill your own guy vs them.
    If they have the nuts you can do nothing i think, even an Extraction will not save you.

    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 Thoughtseize
    SB: 1 Forked Bolt
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
    SB: 1 Marsh Casualties
    SB: 1 Engineered Explosives

    This SB for reference i would board in:
    +2 Extraction
    +1 Deluge (Tokens)
    +1 EE (Tokens)
    +2 Fluster (Cabal or Dread Return)

    -1 Land (If you run 20)
    -2 Leovold
    -2 AD
    -2 Thoughtseize (depending OTP/OTD)

    vs. LED Dredge i would also pick up the 2 Pyroblasts vs Careful Study and Breaktrough
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  8. #28
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by diablo4488 View Post
    Whenever a nontoken creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
    When a creature is put into an opponent's graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, exile Bridge from Below.


    Don't forget that part. Sometimes it's better to kill your own guy vs them.
    If they have the nuts you can do nothing i think, even an Extraction will not save you.

    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 Thoughtseize
    SB: 1 Forked Bolt
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
    SB: 1 Marsh Casualties
    SB: 1 Engineered Explosives

    This SB for reference i would board in:
    +2 Extraction
    +1 Deluge (Tokens)
    +1 EE (Tokens)
    +2 Fluster (Cabal or Dread Return)

    -1 Land (If you run 20)
    -2 Leovold
    -2 AD
    -2 Thoughtseize (depending OTP/OTD)

    vs. LED Dredge i would also pick up the 2 Pyroblasts vs Careful Study and Breaktrough
    pick up pyroblast is a good idea.But I would keep thoughtseize and board out counterspell.

    Counterspell is Inefficient and delay our tempo.

  9. #29

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    @supachai

    I just wanted to say that this was quite the nice writeup. I was looking to do a little reading up on the deck since it's all over the place online, and I found this very helpful.

  10. #30

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Dredge will get you.

  11. #31
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by diablo4488 View Post


    -2 Thoughtseize (depending OTP/OTD)
    I don't like to board out thoughtseize, because they always prefer to play on the draw for discarding, seizing a non-dredger could delay one turn.
    Team Blood, Beijing.
    Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands

  12. #32

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    @supachai

    I just wanted to say that this was quite the nice writeup. I was looking to do a little reading up on the deck since it's all over the place online, and I found this very helpful.
    Thank you for the kind words! Also thank you for all your amazing work on Thraben University! Death and Taxes is my other deck of choice and your site has been an amazing resource.

    @Dredge

    Does anyone have experience with this matchup? No one at my local shop plays Dredge so I haven't been able to get any playtesting in. If anyone wants to write a short matchup analysis, I would love to add it to the primer (and credit you ofc).

    I feel like it's a rough matchup for us. Since we cannot kill them quickly they have time to set up and can very easily outvalue us. Our best plays mainboard are killing our own creatures to remove Bridge and use DRS to remove dredgers. I think the gameplan is to Thoughtseize or counter their initial draw spell(s) to force them on the slow dredge plan. This gives us some time to get an active DRS and/or respond to Bridge triggers. If dredge is big in your meta, I would probably run Nihil Spellbomb over Surgical, and potentially even Leyline of the Void.

  13. #33
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Has anyone tried a copy or two of Driven//Despair? Seems like an interesting one to me.

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    Once you go Legacy...

  14. #34
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Just went 0-2 drop at my local legacy tonight. Already was not feeling well and decided to call it after two rounds. My games were all close but I was paired against Burn and Junk Nic-Fit with a million Siege Rhinos.

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  15. #35
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Top 8'd a small 5 rounder with Czech Pile last week. My blue matchups all went well, as did my Elves games, and my only loss in the swiss was to Loam, completely expected to lose this one. I got knocked out of top 8 to Burn, which was the unluckiest pairing I could have gotten. I have my notes for a tourney report but had to leave town on business so I'll update with them next week sometime. Also have a fun GoPro recording of the Elves games to put on youtube and I'll add that here also.

  16. #36

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    Has anyone tried a copy or two of Driven//Despair? Seems like an interesting one to me.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
    It's interesting but I don't think it fits well for a couple reasons. It's slow. 2 mana + 2 mana at sorcery speed is hard to justify-notice how our pretty much all of our sorcery speed spells are either 1 mana or win us the game (Jace). Second of all, it encourages aggressive gameplay. We usually want to hold our Strixes and such back to play defense. By the time we are attacking we should already have stabilized. Lastly, I don't think it helps us in any of our weak matchups. CA is almost never where we lose. We usually lose because we get out-raced (Delver, Burn, TNN) or because we can't keep a creature on the board (Punishing Fire). Occasionally we get combo'd out but unfortunately the Driven//Despair doesn't really help us in any of the above situations :(

  17. #37
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Very well written primer. As a suggestion I would say that the Reanimator matchup depends largely on which build you are playing against. BR and UB are similar on the surface but they are two different animals. Congrats nevertheless on the good article! Keep it up!

  18. #38

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by owerbart View Post
    Very well written primer. As a suggestion I would say that the Reanimator matchup depends largely on which build you are playing against. BR and UB are similar on the surface but they are two different animals. Congrats nevertheless on the good article! Keep it up!
    Thank you! Very good point on Reanimator. I will take some time to highlight some of the differences when playing against each of the decks.

    Went 3-1 at my weekly legacy (7-2 in games!). Only lost a very close game to Eldrazi. Walking Ballista is a huge beating and he topdecked 2 in row in the late game. Otherwise, Strix and Jace are MVPs in this matchup. Kolaghan's Command to take out Jitte, Chalice, Thorn and buying back your Strixes makes it a very potent card. Beat UW Miracles x2 and a BUG control list pretty handily-having access to Red Blast is so amazing.

    Updated the matchup section with some new insights.
    Last edited by supachai; 08-03-2017 at 03:32 AM.

  19. #39

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Finally got some of the last cards for my deck, still missing a few things but I'm still gonna post it now:


    Last edited by MorphBerlin; 08-07-2017 at 03:32 PM.

  20. #40

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Hey folks,

    Is the D&T matchup really extremely positive for you all? I feel like it's probably close to even. I'm sitting down to write my primer for the site on Thraben University, and I'm trying to collect more data. From the D&T side, I am winning this matchup far more than I expected on MTGO. I'm winning most games that don't involve K. Command into Snapcaster K. Command or the like. I have a very positive matchup against this deck personally, and I'm just trying to figure out if that's a skill gap between me and the average player of Czech Pile. Thoughts?

    -Phil Gallagher

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