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Thread: [DTB] Czech Pile

  1. #41

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    I would say this MU is slighty favored for 4C agaisnt D&T, since most list play 2 Commands now, the games where you won't see it should be not too many with all our cantrips and it is just a big blowout everytime.

    Most of the games I loose feature the nut start of Mother/Vial+Thalia/stoneforge and endless Flickerwhisps or through mana denial, allthough since the games tend to go very long, that is only an issue when the draws line up extreme.

  2. #42

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    I would say this MU is slighty favored for 4C agaisnt D&T, since most list play 2 Commands now, the games where you won't see it should be not too many with all our cantrips and it is just a big blowout everytime.

    Most of the games I loose feature the nut start of Mother/Vial+Thalia/stoneforge and endless Flickerwhisps or through mana denial, allthough since the games tend to go very long, that is only an issue when the draws line up extreme.
    Yeah pretty much, playing this matchup a lot more the only matchups that I really end up losing are the ones where my mana is denied or if I keep a cantrip heavy hand and end up fumbling. Postboard czech pile basically just becomes a Jund deck against D&T and overloads on removal so the matchup ends up being super favorable.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

  3. #43

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Is Rise/Fall not interesting enough for this deck?

  4. #44

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post
    Is Rise/Fall not interesting enough for this deck?
    Kolaghans command is better than Rise and Hymn/Thoughtsieze is better than Fall.

  5. #45
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Has anyone tried the Sylvan Library yet? Is it a bad option in 4C?

  6. #46
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by grim confident View Post
    Has anyone tried the Sylvan Library yet? Is it a bad option in 4C?
    Library is a great card for non-Brainstorm decks to try to dig a bit. We're already running so many Ponder and Brainstorm and Jace I don't see why we need the Library as well. By all means though test it, it did work out for me sometimes in Shardless.

  7. #47

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    Hey folks,

    Is the D&T matchup really extremely positive for you all? I feel like it's probably close to even. I'm sitting down to write my primer for the site on Thraben University, and I'm trying to collect more data. From the D&T side, I am winning this matchup far more than I expected on MTGO. I'm winning most games that don't involve K. Command into Snapcaster K. Command or the like. I have a very positive matchup against this deck personally, and I'm just trying to figure out if that's a skill gap between me and the average player of Czech Pile. Thoughts?

    -Phil Gallagher
    Lost of responses already but I'll add some stuff. Preboard is fairly even, maybe slightly in Czech's favor. Postboard we have so much removal, especially for equipment that it is hard to DnT to keep a creature on the board.

    I think it is very likely a skill gap issue. Knowing what and when to spend your removal is important. Find opportunities to kill Thalia before a Karakas comes down. Aether Vial is a must-kill, as it opens up mana denial and Flickerwisp tricks. Figuring out how to make our removal spells/threats line up well against DnT's is key. Also, since most of deck is instant speed, making them waste mana on equips by removing in response happens a lot and is something the DnT player really needs to watch out for.

  8. #48

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Thoughts on this card? Could a be potential 1-of as a late-game finisher. I certainly like it more than Tasigur.



    Dodges a good amount of removal, and blocks everything from Delver to Flickerwisp. We usually enter the late game with a lot of instants and sorceries in our graveyard and even getting a free Ponder a turn is sweet. While not at its best on your own turn, also noteworthy is that you can pitch-cast Force of Will from your graveyard since it isn't "flashback" like Snapcaster is.

  9. #49
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by supachai View Post
    Thoughts on this card? Could a be potential 1-of as a late-game finisher. I certainly like it more than Tasigur.



    Dodges a good amount of removal, and blocks everything from Delver to Flickerwisp. We usually enter the late game with a lot of instants and sorceries in our graveyard and even getting a free Ponder a turn is sweet. While not at its best on your own turn, also noteworthy is that you can pitch-cast Force of Will from your graveyard since it isn't "flashback" like Snapcaster is.
    Maybe is a good card but not for legacy. We can cast Tasigur by just 1 mana. If I had 4 mana, I perfer to cast JTMS. And sometimes, we need holding this card unit we have 5 lands, make sure it can value something.

  10. #50
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    I think the card could be great in the straight Grixis decks, not sure about Leo piles though, we'll see. It's very strong.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  11. #51
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    I'm going to play Kess in Grixis Control and probably Grixis Smasher as well, but likely not in Czech.

    Tourney Report (5 rounds) in Hongdae, Seoul KR 7.29

    The List:

    3 Underground Sea
    3 Tropical Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    2 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Fatal Push
    4 Ponder
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Lightning Bolt
    4 Baleful Strix
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Night's Whisper
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    2 Kolaghan's Command
    1 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Force of Will
    SB:
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Invasive Surgery
    1 Flusterstorm
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Fire Covenant
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Hydroblast


    Rd1 - Elves

    Game 1 on the play I kept with decent removal knowing my opponent was on Elves. I killed his early stuff, Thoughtseized two Natural Orders, and even got up to Snap -> KCommand before dying to repeated GSZ, eventually conceding to GSZ X of 8 for lethal. Saw 0 Forces during the game and got outdrawn after stripping his hand early due to a good Glimpse, and didn't put together enough removal. Game 2 on the draw my opponent mulled to 6 and Thoughtseized me, seeing Force, Leo, Fire Covenant, Decay, and KCommand. He read Fire Covenant a couple times and tanked for a while before taking it as expected. Game went long w/ me killing everything over and over, then beating him down with the Leovold. Game 3 he played Dryad Arbor -> Go, then turn 2 GSZ'd for 0 for a second Dryad Arbor, played Gaea's Cradle and tapped it for 2 mana, then cast a Visionary and drew a card. I untapped and used my turn 1 DRS to cast a turn 2 Fire Covenant for 3 and he never recovered.

    1-0, 2-1 in games

    Rd2 - UW Stoneblade

    I won the roll again and played a turn 1 DRS, which my opponent Plowed without fear of Daze, then I cast a second DRS on turn 2 and he untapped, played a second land, and Plowed again. His next turn he slammed a Stoneforge, getting Batterskull. I had counter magic but let it resolve and Pushed it end of turn, then played draw-go until he made a move on attempting to resolve a TNN. I had just stacked two Forces on top of my deck that I was thinking about shuffling when he put it on the stack, so I brainstormed them back into my hand and I forced the TNN, drawing a force out of him, and then trumped it with my second. Out of resources, he died to a Leovold that was my last real card. Game 2 on the draw I had brought in the Fluster and Pyroblasts and the 2 extra Thoughtseizes, then stripped his hand of relevant threats and countered all his Stoneforges until he conceded.

    2-0, 4-1 in games

    Rd3 - Miracles

    I won the die roll for a third time and kept a grindy 7 with DRS and cantrips knowing he was on Miracles. We played a 30 minute grindfest that was very back and forth, almost losing after being in the lead by having a Jace eat an Unexpectedly Absent + Predict into the graveyard, then narrowly Snap + Brainstorming into Counterspell for a huge Entreat the Angels. Game 2 he mulled to 5 and really struggled to keep up with me. Due to his awkward mana and the mulligan, I changed my usual play patterns to Thoughtseize + Snap Thoughtseize and was very aggressive in countering his cantrips. He died to an unanswered DRS and an Owl by being exhausted of cards.

    3-0, 6-1 in games

    Rd4 - Loam

    I was hoping he was 3-0 when I saw the pairing and didn't want to play against him but he was 2-0-1 and wanted to play. I lost the die roll, then conceded to turn 3 Dark Depths + Stage. Game 2 I sided in artifact destruction, hand disruption, and surgicals, kept a hand of good stuff, and turn 1 IOK'd him. I saw Dark Confidant, KOTR, Lili, a Chalice, and 2 lands. I felt like I had KCommand on curve for Chalice + maybe something else, Push and Bolt for creatures, so I stripped the Lili and passed. I think he ripped Mox and made a turn 1 Chalice turning off my removal for Dark Confidant and Knight, and then got Liliana off the next drawstep and I stumbled on mana unable to cast KCommand until the Lili was starting to really pressure my hand. I think I got Wasted here before I could use the KCommand and then lost the game to Chalice with a hand full of 1's and an active Lili staring me down.

    3-1, 6-3 in games

    Rd 5 - ID with Enchantress

    I would have played this round but we were locked for top 8 so I went to get a sandwich.

    3-1-1 into top 8

    I sat down across from Burn and played an extremely hard 2 games and got knocked out of contention immediately, having gotten the worst pairing available at the table. I think I had 50% chances to be paired up against UW decks, then 25% chances to be paired up with Burn or Loam, and 25% something else that seemed ok. I drew the short straw and lost to Burn immediately. I don't really even have notes.

  12. #52
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    I managed to finally get some time in with this deck at GP side events in Birmingham over the weekend. They were only 4 rounds each, but the deck performed well. 3-1 and 3-0-1 with the loss being to lands and the draw being intentional with a friend who was on the same deck as it was late and we wanted to go to a bar.

    Pretty stock list. I love the 4 Hymns in the 75 for combo in conjuction with Snappies, feels so powerful vs combo, much better than countermagic. The Liliana was a last minute addition to try out, she performed really well too, munching on DnT, some delvers and other random annoying stuff as well as rebuying Leo and Snaps. Will continue playing with her in the md, and the Gurmag was pretty clutch a number of times to put a faster clock on decks like Burn and combo.

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Baleful Strix
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 Gurmag Angler

    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope

    4 Ponder
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Toxic Deluge

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    3 Fatal Push
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Lightning Bolt
    1 Abrupt Decay
    2 Kolaghan's Command

    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Badlands
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Verdant Catacombs

    SB
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Marsh Casualties
    1 Pithing Needle
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  13. #53

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    So I started playing MTGO with 4C-Control as this is my favorite deck (though not the best deck imo). It seems like 40-50% of the decks online are Delver (mostly Grixis) and I keep losing to it. Its not even funny like probably 30-70 or something. I don't know if this is just a really bad string of luck (I'm not the best palyer but pretty decent with these grindy decks, and I am not experiencing the same in Paper), as I am losing at least one game per match to screw/flood or drawing 1 Cantrip after going through 1/3 of my deck. Also they keep having the right creatures for my answers, if I have plenty of spot removal they have Angler/TNN, if I have Edicts they have YP and so on.

    Enough of the rant, I need to improve my win% drastically or I will switch over to Delver... I am winning most of the mirros or mirror style MUs so it can't be because I am the worst palyer in the World. I think there must be some problem with my approach so I have 2 Questions:

    1. Whats your approach to this MU if it is generalizable.

    2. Whats you SB Plan look like?

    My current build for refence: (I would play a LotV MD over the edict or Cut but did not buy it yet, same with TNN over Gurmag but those are actually about the same.

    20 Lands
    4 Delta
    4 Tarn
    2 Mist
    3 Sea
    2 Volc
    2 Trop
    1 Badland
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    14 Creatures
    4 Snapcaster
    4 DRS
    4 Strix
    1 Leo
    1 Angler

    26 Spells
    4 Force
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Push
    2 Bolt
    2 K Command
    2 Hymn
    1 Decay
    1 Deluge
    1 D. Edict
    1 Murderous Cut
    2 Jace

    Side:
    2 Fluster
    3 Blast
    1 Marsh C
    1 D. Edict
    1 Leovold
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Surgical
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Painful Truths

    SB Plan:
    -2 FoW
    -2 Hymn
    -1 Leo
    -2 Jace

    +3 Blast
    +2 Fluster
    +1 Diabolic Edict
    +1 Marsh Casualties

    I am not sure If 1Leo and/or Jace should stay in. I jsut don't feel like casting 3/4cmc blastable socery speed cards is where I want to be...

  14. #54

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    So I've recently decided that UWx Stoneblade isn't worth playing in this meta given the amount of discard, czech pile running kcommands, and other decks built to outgrind decks like stoneblade, so I'm jumping on the czech pile train. I did play this deck a fair bit right after the top ban before moving off it, and back then main deck thoughtseizes were pretty stock, but looking around it seems most, but not all, have moved away from that, replacing those spots with more spot removal / grind cards. Do you guys not find yourselves missing it for comb? 2 thoughtseizes doesn't seem like an overwhelming amount clogging the deck, they're still live vs other midrange/control decks, and aren't that bad vs delver g1, though I'd probably still side them out. But I do feel like with only 2 Hymn and 4 FOW preboard, combo is a wash g1. Do you just find combo not being popular enough compared to other grindy decks where removal and threats would be a bit better? Or does cutting thoughtseize not hurt combo as much as I think?

  15. #55
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by Mzfroste View Post
    So I've recently decided that UWx Stoneblade isn't worth playing in this meta given the amount of discard, czech pile running kcommands, and other decks built to outgrind decks like stoneblade, so I'm jumping on the czech pile train. I did play this deck a fair bit right after the top ban before moving off it, and back then main deck thoughtseizes were pretty stock, but looking around it seems most, but not all, have moved away from that, replacing those spots with more spot removal / grind cards. Do you guys not find yourselves missing it for comb? 2 thoughtseizes doesn't seem like an overwhelming amount clogging the deck, they're still live vs other midrange/control decks, and aren't that bad vs delver g1, though I'd probably still side them out. But I do feel like with only 2 Hymn and 4 FOW preboard, combo is a wash g1. Do you just find combo not being popular enough compared to other grindy decks where removal and threats would be a bit better? Or does cutting thoughtseize not hurt combo as much as I think?
    That's exactly it, there's enough Delver and other creature based decks over combo that I've gone with more removal over the Thoughtseizes. Combo is rough game one, but the sideboard is quite heavily geared to beat it. I'd like to fit a third TS in the board somewhere as curving that into Hymn can be devastating, or perhaps one can fit into the maindeck. Not 100% this is the right approach, but I feel like it's better suited at the moment. Especially online.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    SB Plan:
    -2 FoW
    -2 Hymn
    -1 Leo
    -2 Jace

    +3 Blast
    +2 Fluster
    +1 Diabolic Edict
    +1 Marsh Casualties

    I am not sure If 1Leo and/or Jace should stay in. I jsut don't feel like casting 3/4cmc blastable socery speed cards is where I want to be...
    Sounds like maybe a rough string of luck, Delver is a pretty decent matchup. I wouldn't bring in that many blasts though, probably just one or two if I've seen multiple TNN. Leovold is good in the matchup too, if they have the answer so be it, but if they don't it's hard to lose. I like to keep one Jace too, they usually only play two blasts these days and we have so many targets with Snaps and Strix etc already, they're always overtaxed.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  16. #56

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    I agree, at least the MODO Meta is super delver heavy so I went down from 2 MD Thoughtseizes as well. It is still fine to play them as they to something against most decks as you said.

    I like blast to kill Delver and push through important stuff, but I will try to only board 2. Would you rather keep Jace or Leo?

    Also do you know anybody good streaming with the deck? I only saw Jarvis play it quite often lately

  17. #57

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    So I started playing MTGO with 4C-Control as this is my favorite deck (though not the best deck imo). It seems like 40-50% of the decks online are Delver (mostly Grixis) and I keep losing to it. Its not even funny like probably 30-70 or something. I don't know if this is just a really bad string of luck (I'm not the best palyer but pretty decent with these grindy decks, and I am not experiencing the same in Paper), as I am losing at least one game per match to screw/flood or drawing 1 Cantrip after going through 1/3 of my deck. Also they keep having the right creatures for my answers, if I have plenty of spot removal they have Angler/TNN, if I have Edicts they have YP and so on.

    Enough of the rant, I need to improve my win% drastically or I will switch over to Delver... I am winning most of the mirros or mirror style MUs so it can't be because I am the worst palyer in the World. I think there must be some problem with my approach so I have 2 Questions:

    1. Whats your approach to this MU if it is generalizable.

    2. Whats you SB Plan look like?

    My current build for refence: (I would play a LotV MD over the edict or Cut but did not buy it yet, same with TNN over Gurmag but those are actually about the same.

    20 Lands
    4 Delta
    4 Tarn
    2 Mist
    3 Sea
    2 Volc
    2 Trop
    1 Badland
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    14 Creatures
    4 Snapcaster
    4 DRS
    4 Strix
    1 Leo
    1 Angler

    26 Spells
    4 Force
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Push
    2 Bolt
    2 K Command
    2 Hymn
    1 Decay
    1 Deluge
    1 D. Edict
    1 Murderous Cut
    2 Jace

    Side:
    2 Fluster
    3 Blast
    1 Marsh C
    1 D. Edict
    1 Leovold
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Surgical
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Painful Truths

    SB Plan:
    -2 FoW
    -2 Hymn
    -1 Leo
    -2 Jace

    +3 Blast
    +2 Fluster
    +1 Diabolic Edict
    +1 Marsh Casualties

    I am not sure If 1Leo and/or Jace should stay in. I jsut don't feel like casting 3/4cmc blastable socery speed cards is where I want to be...
    How can this deck lose to delver? You run 9 removals + 1 sweeper + 4 strixes + 4 snapcasters. That's more removal than they got creatures.
    You run 20 lands + 4 DRS + 8 cantrips, you shouldn't crumble to their mana denial.

  18. #58

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    How can this deck lose to delver? You run 9 removals + 1 sweeper + 4 strixes + 4 snapcasters. That's more removal than they got creatures.
    You run 20 lands + 4 DRS + 8 cantrips, you shouldn't crumble to their mana denial.
    I guess I should start recoding ganes for oyu to believe me :D

  19. #59

    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    How can this deck lose to delver? You run 9 removals + 1 sweeper + 4 strixes + 4 snapcasters. That's more removal than they got creatures.
    You run 20 lands + 4 DRS + 8 cantrips, you shouldn't crumble to their mana denial.
    I wouldn't say that the match is that good. You're favored over delver quite a bit but there are times where you can't fetch out your basics to play around wasteland, or are forced to run out spells and hope that you don't get hit by some soft permission, things like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

  20. #60
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    Re: [Primer] Czech Pile

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    I agree, at least the MODO Meta is super delver heavy so I went down from 2 MD Thoughtseizes as well. It is still fine to play them as they to something against most decks as you said.

    I like blast to kill Delver and push through important stuff, but I will try to only board 2. Would you rather keep Jace or Leo?

    Also do you know anybody good streaming with the deck? I only saw Jarvis play it quite often lately
    There are so many ways to kill Delver already though, and we force through stuff by simply outgrinding them imo, not using blast on a FoW. Personally I'd just sideboard in one at most. I like Leo a bit more than Jace.

    I know Ark4n streams a lot, he's pretty good. https://www.twitch.tv/ark4n11

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    I wouldn't say that the match is that good. You're favored over delver quite a bit but there are times where you can't fetch out your basics to play around wasteland, or are forced to run out spells and hope that you don't get hit by some soft permission, things like that.
    Agree, they can certainly get under you.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

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