[Primer] Dredge

[slave]

... contagion in the sb has been dope af

Nice result! Well done Que.

Contagion in LED-dredge? I used to use this card as a staple side option in Manaless, but can't say I had much luck running them in LED-dredge before. I wonder if including a full set of Wraiths at the expense of blue spells makes the card more useful?
Which match-ups &/or cards did you side these on for?

[Que]

Nice result! Well done Que.

Contagion in LED-dredge? I used to use this card as a staple side option in Manaless, but can't say I had much luck running them in LED-dredge before. I wonder if including a full set of Wraiths at the expense of blue spells makes the card more useful?
Which match-ups &/or cards did you side these on for?

Thanks Dude.

I just have my own apprehensions when it comes to playing Firestorm so the closest thing imo as fas as being relatively easy to cast and being removal was Contagion. Like you mentioned its nothing new and has been seen in Manaless Dredge for a while now usually over something like Sickening Shoal. I don't think that including Wraiths was the reason it shined mainly because we still run enough black cards to pull it off. Here is the previous list I had managed to top 8 with that also had Contagion with blue cards:http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17060&d=305569&f=LE I liked it so much I went up to 4 the following tournament. If anything the addition of Wraith should only make you feel more comfortable running them. Casting them for "free" and being able to pay the tax in the face of Thalia has been nice. Also allowing you to pay for a Daze in situations that you would have been blown out in. I get that discarding as part of the firestorm cost is nice, but if they had a DRS on the board and your F Storm gets countered then DRS just eats whatever you just binn'd outside of Bridge from Below...

I would bring it in against any matchup you want to kill problematic creatures ; DRS, Containment Priest, Thalia,

[Sefir]

Have you guys seen Silent Gravestone from Rivals? Do you think it can be used as a (what an irony!!) anti-gv hate against Surgicals, Shamans, Faerie Macabres, Oozes, etc without interrupting the decks own Dredge/Bridge engine?

[themtgzealot]

I think it is playable turning of a % of hate cards is very enticing. Will build a SB to test.

[SHABOOGS]

Silent Gravestone
1
Artifact
Cards in graveyards can't be the targets of spells or abilities.

4, T: Exile Silent Gravestone and all cards from all graveyards. Draw a card.
Made to ward off the Grim Captain and silence the lure of undeath.

A 1 CMC artifact that shuts down the two most common hate in today's meta (Deathrite Shaman and Surgical Extraction) is worth testing at the very least even though it does shut down our Dread Return and that it can be easily answered by Abrupt Decay.

[mistercakes]

it's fantastic against the two that are played the most, and also screws over snapcaster. happy to test this if i have the time.

[Parcher]

Can't ignore the fact that it doubles as our hate for what is usually our worst matchup.

[Pische]

Unfortunately it also shuts down Dread Return, which we often want against DRS decks

[Vissah]

Unfortunately it also shuts down Dread Return, which we often want against DRS decks

Really? Wich fatty do you board in against them?

[Pische]

Really? Wich fatty do you board in against them?

Ashen Rider is my man against almost all fair decks.

[Vissah]

Ashen Rider is my man against almost all fair decks.

Fair enough.

I just started Legacy so I`m still figuring out what and when to board cards in.

[Phthisis]

That's actually something I'm a little curious about as well (bringing in Ashen Rider against fair decks).

Though I've played Dredge pretty extensively over the years in Modern and Extended, I'm relatively new to the Legacy version, so do interpret this as an earnest question and not a strong assertion of what I think is best.

Why do you think Ashen Rider is good in fair matchups? In general (though it is deck-specific), against fair decks I'm going to stick with the maindeck plan of no dedicated DR targets, just Golgari Grave-Troll. I feel that the normal dredge plan is fine against fair decks and if I really need a fatty, grave-troll is fine. Is the Ashen Rider just to deal with any potential problem permanents they might have (that aren't hate that shuts down the deck)? Or is it for some other plan like exiling lands to lock them out?

[slave]

Silent Gravestone
1
Artifact
Cards in graveyards can't be the targets of spells or abilities.

4, T: Exile Silent Gravestone and all cards from all graveyards. Draw a card.

Interesting! Been a while since I've seen a potential dredge card, even if it is just a sideboard option.

The only card I've ever used for gravehate hate/protection in dredge is Leyline of the Void.
Gravestone looks less powerful, but more flexible. I like the idea at a glance, but I'm going to have to test it. I feel by looking at it that it may answer quite a few issues we have against some combo decks.

One of my worst matchups is Reanimator - this card (if it gets through counter) is effective against Reanimate, but not Exhume. They usually use Animate Dead too.
It also turns off Life from the Loam from infinite-Bojuka Bog lock.

But....
Considering how few matchups this card matters in (off the top of my head), and the fact we can simply race through Surg & DRS most of the time, I'm not sure we really need it.

[Ronald Deuce]

One of my worst matchups is Reanimator - this card (if it gets through counter) is effective against Reanimate, but not Exhume. They usually use Animate Dead too.
It also turns off Life from the Loam from infinite-Bojuka Bog lock.

I was of the impression that auras did, in fact, target, so Gravestone would work against Animate Dead. Am I being a moran? This card might be the real deal against Lands. I'm definitely interested in picking up a few copies for Dredge and for trying out Grixis Storm again.

Regarding sideboard bomb creatures, why not just try FKZ, Archon, or Norn against non-combo decks? I guess sideboard space might be a pretty big concern.

[slave]

I was of the impression that auras did, in fact, target, so Gravestone would work against Animate Dead. Am I being a moran? This card might be the real deal against Lands. I'm definitely interested in picking up a few copies for Dredge and for trying out Grixis Storm again.

No moron statement there bud - I was just stating what they use (relative to Animate Dead).
Gravestone would be a riot with flash.....
Last time I came up against Lands I got rolled by Bojuka Bog-lock. Try explaining "bog lock" to you wife sometime. That conversation didn't go the way I thought it would.... (Way too much information )

Is the Ashen Rider just to deal with any potential problem permanents they might have (that aren't hate that shuts down the deck)? Or is it for some other plan like exiling lands to lock them out?

Pretty much, dealing with problems or making sure you win. Problem I have with Ashen Rider is that if their hate negates Dread Return (Rip, LotV, Cage etc.), it's a dead card.
For DR targets, I like Iona myself, but it's also just as situational.
For dealing with terminal hate I usually prefer the sorcery stuff, evoke creatures or drowning my sorrows.

[Vissah]

Played my first Legacy FNM ever today and it has been a long time since I had this much fun playing Magic.

Got second place, 2-0, 2-1, 1-2.

Lost to Aluren because it did not go as planned but you got those games with a deck like Dredge so no worries.

[Phthisis]

Pretty much, dealing with problems or making sure you win. Problem I have with Ashen Rider is that if their hate negates Dread Return (Rip, LotV, Cage etc.), it's a dead card.
For DR targets, I like Iona myself, but it's also just as situational.
For dealing with terminal hate I usually prefer the sorcery stuff, evoke creatures or drowning my sorrows.

I know you were not the original poster to claim liking Ashen Rider in fair matchups, but this doesn't really answer my question. Personally I've been running Iona and Ashen Rider in the sideboard, with a single Dread Return main and Grave-Troll being the target. I do bring Iona and Ashen Rider situationally depending on the matchup, it's just that the fair matchups in general are the ones where I do not bring either in. Bringing in a reanimation target does make the deck (very slightly) less consistent, and I don't see how Ashen Rider is giving any percentage points. In general the standard Ichorid and zombie token swarm strategies work, and if I really do want a fatty, Grave-Troll is fine. I'm not sure I've ever been in a matchup with a fair deck where I feel that having access to Ashen Rider would have affected the outcome of the game. (now granted, there are some edge cases where you need evasion or there is a particular permanent that is a challenge for the deck, but I am talking about in general against fair decks)


Also, I was on dredge at the last Baltimore SCG Team Open and half my matchups were against Lands where I got completely blown out. That sucked. I did play against someone who was on a brew-y pox deck and who didn't really know what he was doing and gave me one of the more hilarious free wins I've had in Magic. He kept blowing up our lands and making us discard even though it was obvious that doing that was tremendously in my favor.

[ronco]

I picked up Realm Razer for the lands matchup. Haven't had a chance to use it though. Any thoughts there?

[gibbousm]

I picked up Realm Razer for the lands matchup. Haven't had a chance to use it though. Any thoughts there?

Realm Razer is a super fun card but the fact that it dies to Punishing Fire is the main reason I wouldn't run it. For Lands my plan is put pressure on them until they are forced to Glacial Chasm and then use Ashen Rider to blow that up when they are low enough for a lethal swing.

[Vissah]

Quick question.

I just started playing Legacy so some of the decks I don`t really know what to board in against.

I played against Aluren and I know what the deck is trying to do I had a hard time figuring out wich cards to board in and how to attack it.

This is my sideboard:

4 Firestorm
3 Wear // Tear
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Memory`s Journey
2 Fearie Macabre
2 Dread Return
1 Ashen Rider
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

I play the straight up four of everything Orim deck and it has been putting up some good results for me.

Against Aluren I boarded in the Firestorms and the Ancient Grudge but I don`t know if that was the right play. If you guys can help me out here that would be very welcome because I know for sure I will be playing a lot more against that guy.