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Thread: [Primer] Dredge

  1. #181
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Orim67 View Post
    Game 1 is very favorable, because they can't remove bridges and chalice on 1 sometimes doesn't do anything (breakthrough, led + coliseum).
    We still have to note that Endless One on X=0 would do it. :(
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  2. #182
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Oops. But you can easily therapy is if they don't have a chalice out. Don't know why I forgot that, but in my experience, I could often just bring back ichorids every turn to make zombies. I guess that catrips make it much easier to have a lightning bolt at the right time.

  3. #183
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Finally got a chance to test Silent Gravestone in our monthly legacy tournament yesterday and I was not impressed. It did not matter during the one match up when I brought them in even though it resolved. Will still test it for a few more times before I switch back to my usual sideboard strategies.
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  4. #184

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
    How is the MU against Eldrazi stompy?
    Unfavourable.
    I haven't played against the deck a lot, but I've regularly felt I had an even chance in game1, even tho we have Endless & Chalice to deal with. I've seen Walking Ballista played in this deck too. After that I feel our chances take a major hit once they include LotV.
    I haven't played against E-Stompy since I started playing with Street Wraith again, I'm keen to see what the difference might be....

  5. #185
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    Unfavourable.
    I haven't played against the deck a lot, but I've regularly felt I had an even chance in game1, even tho we have Endless & Chalice to deal with. I've seen Walking Ballista played in this deck too. After that I feel our chances take a major hit once they include LotV.
    I haven't played against E-Stompy since I started playing with Street Wraith again, I'm keen to see what the difference might be....
    Force of Will is good there, from my limited experience. But yeah, it's not great if they hit Chalice or Endless One. Haven't seen Ballistas there personally, but that's anecdotal. Another problem is that they often mulligan to Leyline.

    For a while I was just loading up on Dread Returns and targets and cutting back cantrips to go for the DDD plan, but I can't say it was all that great, even though it was markedly better than not doing it if we were on the draw.
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  6. #186

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Greetings (un)fair dredgers. Own the deck in paper which I pull out once in awhile.

    Finally decided to play on MTGO and picked up dredge because, well, it's cheap.

    Does anyone here stream or have links to good dredge matches to watch?

    I've watched Moreno paper matches ofc. Anything else would help!

    Thanks!

  7. #187

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by SHABOOGS View Post
    Finally got a chance to test Silent Gravestone in our monthly legacy tournament yesterday and I was not impressed. It did not matter during the one match up when I brought them in even though it resolved. Will still test it for a few more times before I switch back to my usual sideboard strategies.
    Had a few games where Gravestone was good. One was a corner-case MU against Opps All Spells. Shut off their DR win-cons.

    Shutting off Snapcaster targets seems good. It's a little slow against DRS but could buy you time depending on your own hand (if you ended up not racing and slow dredging to win). It gets decayed against 4C and BUG eventually...those MUs seem better suited to race rather than protecting the GY with Gravestone.

    Had a hilarious mistake where I boarded it in for some Tezzeret-style deck. They cast Dack Fayden, stole it and cracked it to exile the GYs. Opps. So yeah, corner case but if they take control of it, it ends up being free GY hate for them! lols.

  8. #188

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Been a long time since I last played Dredge at a tournament. I ended up playing a local today and went 3-1, losing my only match due to a wrong decision (not sure if it was an actual mistake given my information).

    Basically I played against an Elf opponent whose deck I helped building, and I knew how his sideboard plan usually looked against me. The last time I checked it consisted of 1 Crypt, 2 Surgical and the 4 DRS plus Ooze.
    After turn 2ing him game 1 he leads on turn 1 DRS in game 2. My 8 cards on turn 1 after drawing were: Gemstone Mine, Careful Study, Breakthrough, 2 x Grave-Troll, Stinkweed, Firestorm, blank. My options were:
    - Turn 1 Study into discard 2 Dredgers (likely 2 different ones to hedge against Surgical). He would then take one of them with DRS and if my draw step Dredge bricked I'd be in an awkward position with no more Dredgers in the yard and only the one land for either Breakthrough or Firestorm. In this case it would have been strictly better to Firestorm turn 1.
    - Turn 1 Firestorm discarding 2 Dredgers (2 different ones again) with the plan to turn 2 Careful Study. This would probably be the safest play which is only bad if I don't hit anything relevant off of the 3 Dredges I get and my opponent gets another turn to use any turn 2 DRS or Ooze.
    - Turn 1 Firestorm discarding 2 Dredgers (2 different ones again) with the plan to turn 2 Breakthrough for the win. This would beat all of his creature based hate and only bear the risk of bricking on the first Dredge while resolving Breakthrough, leaving me with no hand and one Dredge per turn for the rest of the game.
    - Turn 1 Firestorm discarding all 3 Dredgers with the plan to turn 2 Breakthrough for the win. This would beat any DRS and/or Ooze and have a decent to high chance to end the game next turn (boarded in Iona). I also wouldn't lose any percentages against the previous option in case of a potential Surgical, however, if he had exactly the Crypt in hand and had decided not to drop it on turn 1, he would get all my Dredgers. This would still leave me with Study and Breakthrough to restart though.

    Given what I expected his hate package to look like, I went for the last option. Turns out he changed his board to 3 Crypts and he had been sandbagging one in hand. He then got all my Dredgers and dropped a 2nd DRS plus Quirion Ranger on turn 2. Yuck. My Study does find another Dredger plus a second land, but my first Dredge upon resolving Breakthrough bricks and I'm left with nothing after his DRS goes to work. Game 3 I mull to a 6 with Coliseum, Study and Street Wraith that needed to find another Land or LED in my top 5 cards to go off on turn 2. I failed to do so and didn't get to do much of anything before I die on his 3rd turn.

    Had I gone for the 3rd option (or possibly the 2nd) above I would have very likely won game 2 and thus swept the match 2-0 in quick fashion. This way I lost and my clean 2-0 sweeps against Infect, Eldrazi Stompy and Burn in the other 3 rounds didn't amount to anything better than a 3-1 record with a good opp score, resulting in 3rd place overall.
    After the Elves match I tell my opponent that I threw away game 2. We then discuss whether it was actually a greedy misplay or whether my decision was defensible with the information I had at the time. Any thoughts on that?


    Cheers.

  9. #189
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    Any thoughts on that?
    With the information you were working with, I think you probably made the right call. Obviously in retrospect the sideboard switcheroo makes it a bad move, but under the circumstances I probably would've done the same thing. One thing you didn't mention is that Elves is comparable to us in speed, so if you'd not had a good dredge open the following turn, it's quite possible that he would've steamrolled you because—ime—Elves is more consistent than we are, though perhaps less consistently explosive.

    Crypt is a savage card; it's not Leyline, but it's more flexible. If I'd been in the blind, I probably would've kept a Dredger back just in case and Firestormed for 2, but a psych-out is a psych-out, and I think your opponent probably made the change to Crypts specifically because he knew what you were on and didn't want you to see his sideboard tech.
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    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  10. #190

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Played in a 54-man staples tournament on Sunday with Que, managed to get 10th as the highest 4-2. Played against the following:

    2-1 ANT
    1-0 Food Chain due to deck check (played out 3 games later anyway, won 2-1)
    2-0 W Eldrazi + Taxes
    0-2 Jeskai Stoneblade
    0-2 DnT
    2-1 Grixis Delver

    The Jeskai Stoneblade match was streamed, I'd love some tips on things I should do better! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/235281206?t=02h32m51s

    A couple notes from rewatching the footage:
    - I had played him last month at the February Knight Ware staples event, and somehow remembered him running Wasteland; probably should've use City instead of Mine for the second PImp, to keep lands around for flashbacks later
    - At 2:48:46, completely brainfarted when he stifled one of the two Ichorid triggers; should've brought 1 out still >.< Don't think it would've mattered, though
    - What a great hand for g2, but such terrible dredges T_T Once that Priest came down, it was gonna be rough, because I only sided in 2 Firestorm (had access to 3, but also brought in a bunch of other stuff like Serenity and Wear//Tear, so I figured I should diversify my hate more) and I had hit both t1. I was hoping for Zombie beats, but counterspells op :<
    - The graveyard pointing at 3:08:08 was indeed me missing the Thug death trigger, oops =/

    I'll try to type up a more formal report later :)

  11. #191
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by notkevin View Post
    Played in a 54-man staples tournament on Sunday with Que, managed to get 10th as the highest 4-2. Played against the following:

    2-1 ANT
    1-0 Food Chain due to deck check (played out 3 games later anyway, won 2-1)
    2-0 W Eldrazi + Taxes
    0-2 Jeskai Stoneblade
    0-2 DnT
    2-1 Grixis Delver

    The Jeskai Stoneblade match was streamed, I'd love some tips on things I should do better! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/235281206?t=02h32m51s

    A couple notes from rewatching the footage:
    - I had played him last month at the February Knight Ware staples event, and somehow remembered him running Wasteland; probably should've use City instead of Mine for the second PImp, to keep lands around for flashbacks later
    - At 2:48:46, completely brainfarted when he stifled one of the two Ichorid triggers; should've brought 1 out still >.< Don't think it would've mattered, though
    - What a great hand for g2, but such terrible dredges T_T Once that Priest came down, it was gonna be rough, because I only sided in 2 Firestorm (had access to 3, but also brought in a bunch of other stuff like Serenity and Wear//Tear, so I figured I should diversify my hate more) and I had hit both t1. I was hoping for Zombie beats, but counterspells op :<
    - The graveyard pointing at 3:08:08 was indeed me missing the Thug death trigger, oops =/

    I'll try to type up a more formal report later :)

    Aside from those notes you mentioned you played very well.

    Damn that G2 was heartbreaking. Those early dredges had a lot of blanks. And then that Daze, Force, Daze at end was gross. I have played David now a few times so he's had good practice. He definitely knew when to get rid of Ichorid and what to Stifle and which spells to counter.
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  12. #192

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by notkevin View Post
    Played in a 54-man staples tournament on Sunday with Que, managed to get 10th as the highest 4-2. Played against the following:

    2-1 ANT
    1-0 Food Chain due to deck check (played out 3 games later anyway, won 2-1)
    2-0 W Eldrazi + Taxes
    0-2 Jeskai Stoneblade
    0-2 DnT
    2-1 Grixis Delver

    The Jeskai Stoneblade match was streamed, I'd love some tips on things I should do better! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/235281206?t=02h32m51s

    A couple notes from rewatching the footage:
    - I had played him last month at the February Knight Ware staples event, and somehow remembered him running Wasteland; probably should've use City instead of Mine for the second PImp, to keep lands around for flashbacks later
    - At 2:48:46, completely brainfarted when he stifled one of the two Ichorid triggers; should've brought 1 out still >.< Don't think it would've mattered, though
    - What a great hand for g2, but such terrible dredges T_T Once that Priest came down, it was gonna be rough, because I only sided in 2 Firestorm (had access to 3, but also brought in a bunch of other stuff like Serenity and Wear//Tear, so I figured I should diversify my hate more) and I had hit both t1. I was hoping for Zombie beats, but counterspells op :<
    - The graveyard pointing at 3:08:08 was indeed me missing the Thug death trigger, oops =/

    I'll try to type up a more formal report later :)
    Stoneblade keeps on being an insidious matchup, because post side we may want to be very fast, as they could pack serious hate like priest and rip, but a butterskull shuts down our plans of racing them.
    Currently my plan against them is going all in with the petals and DR + ashen rider on the play, while bringing in the wear/tears and 2 fstorms on the draw. Ancient grudge would be cool against them because it allows you to go all in at first and then eventually destroy a batterskull.
    You played well. Playing on camera is harder. Your opponent lands were horrible.

  13. #193
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Hi Everyone,

    Dredge was my first legacy deck when I entered the format ~2008ish and I loved it but my lack of knowledge of the format and overall just being green to MtG didn't give me results. Soon after finishing this deck I moved to Burn then eventually good ol' Rug Delver. I've come full circle and I am eager to give dredge another shot. I've been lurking for a little while and I was hoping to get some feedback from some of the more experienced pilots about the state of Dredge today. I know that Dredge is very customizable to individual play styles but this is the list I initially was interested in:

    http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=18450&d=314624&f=LE

    1. How good is Prized Amalgam?
    2. Is a list without Cabal Therapy really ever better than a list without? This seems like sin to me.
    3. Is Silent Gravestone out of the board worth the slots? (I'm leaning yes)

    I really would like to play this deck at a 5k this weekend. I've narrowed my deck choice down to this and Soldier Stompy. I played at an event at the same place last weekend and there were a lot of lands/loam decks and crop rotation makes me quite nervous. Any other advice on the more recent modern lists is welcome! Thank you!!
    Once you go Legacy...

  14. #194

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    Dredge was my first legacy deck when I entered the format ~2008ish and I loved it but my lack of knowledge of the format and overall just being green to MtG didn't give me results. Soon after finishing this deck I moved to Burn then eventually good ol' Rug Delver. I've come full circle and I am eager to give dredge another shot. I've been lurking for a little while and I was hoping to get some feedback from some of the more experienced pilots about the state of Dredge today. I know that Dredge is very customizable to individual play styles but this is the list I initially was interested in:

    http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=18450&d=314624&f=LE

    1. How good is Prized Amalgam?
    2. Is a list without Cabal Therapy really ever better than a list without? This seems like sin to me.
    3. Is Silent Gravestone out of the board worth the slots? (I'm leaning yes)

    I really would like to play this deck at a 5k this weekend. I've narrowed my deck choice down to this and Soldier Stompy. I played at an event at the same place last weekend and there were a lot of lands/loam decks and crop rotation makes me quite nervous. Any other advice on the more recent modern lists is welcome! Thank you!!
    1. Prized Amalgam is very good if you're running FoW, otherwise it will often be an overwin card when it works and "I wish I had this other card" when it doesn't
    2. I can't think of a single reason to not run Cabal Therapy. It's the single best card of the deck if not of all legacy and the main reason why this deck can beat anything if played correctly
    3. I don't know. I like the card and it's been pretty good for me. The fact that it costs only 1 is huge, since many times it's your play on turn 1 and eats a FoW, letting you play your enablers on turn 2

  15. #195

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    Dredge was my first legacy deck when I entered the format ~2008ish and I loved it but my lack of knowledge of the format and overall just being green to MtG didn't give me results. Soon after finishing this deck I moved to Burn then eventually good ol' Rug Delver. I've come full circle and I am eager to give dredge another shot. I've been lurking for a little while and I was hoping to get some feedback from some of the more experienced pilots about the state of Dredge today. I know that Dredge is very customizable to individual play styles but this is the list I initially was interested in:

    http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=18450&d=314624&f=LE

    1. How good is Prized Amalgam?
    2. Is a list without Cabal Therapy really ever better than a list without? This seems like sin to me.
    3. Is Silent Gravestone out of the board worth the slots? (I'm leaning yes)

    I really would like to play this deck at a 5k this weekend. I've narrowed my deck choice down to this and Soldier Stompy. I played at an event at the same place last weekend and there were a lot of lands/loam decks and crop rotation makes me quite nervous. Any other advice on the more recent modern lists is welcome! Thank you!!
    1. I've also been pretty unimpressed with PA, having run them a couple times; it helps against Surgical on Ichorid, but otherwise I think I'd almost always want Ichorid instead (tbf, I don't play Force).
    2. The pilot admitted they straight-up forgot about the Therapies while registering the deck, so they also agree it's a sin :P https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...epool/du4ogw3/
    3. Still undecided on 3; I think they're better against Reanimator than Faerie Macabre (and have additional uses against things like DRS, Snap, Surgical, Loam, etc.), but the fact that they don't really synergize with the rest of our gameplan is awkward (eg, at least Macabre is a black creature and is free [can interact on t1 on the draw, allows us to progress our gameplan unimpeded]). I think that into an open field, they're probably more correct, since they cover a lot more bases.

  16. #196
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Thanks for the insight! If I were going to get therapies in the list I mentioned, what am I subbing them in for? I was thinking 1 land, 1 amalgam, 2 street wraith.

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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    I would cut the collective brutalities and keep the street wraiths.
    I would of course recommend my list, which I tuned to beat the fair Drs decks of the meta and it has been pretty good at doing that. I'm at 80% vs grixis delver right now online. I also like to solve most problems by just dredging more, so I focused on getting as many dredges as possible in the early turns.

    Here is my list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/961769#paper

  18. #198

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Orim67 View Post
    I would cut the collective brutalities and keep the street wraiths.
    I would of course recommend my list, which I tuned to beat the fair Drs decks of the meta and it has been pretty good at doing that. I'm at 80% vs grixis delver right now online. I also like to solve most problems by just dredging more, so I focused on getting as many dredges as possible in the early turns.

    Here is my list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/961769#paper
    Why do you prefer putrid imp over more careful study?

  19. #199

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Blastoderm View Post
    Why do you prefer putrid imp over more careful study?
    Not Orim (please correct me if I'm wrong), but the big reason is that a lot of these grindy decks play things like Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm; creature enablers dodge these very easily :)

    Follow-up question, though - I noticed you switched over to 3 Breakthrough, 1 Careful. Why did you make that switch? Is it that Breakthrough is too "all-in", but still necessary in some number against other combo decks?

  20. #200
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    You are absolutely right about PImp. It feels good when your hand has LED PImp and Coliseum and you see a flusterstorm after it is already too late. Other reasons are:
    Another creature that flashes back therapy while making zombies/baits a bolt or swords. Black creature for ichorid.
    Makes it almost impossible to brick on dredgers if it stays on board.

    I'm personally a huge fan of breakthrough, because it is gg when it resolves with dredgers in the yard and it is still a fine setup with x=1, especially when you have a coliseum as a land. Breakthrough is just bad in multiples, so I didn't want to play the full 4.

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