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Thread: [Primer] Dredge

  1. #61
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Orim67 View Post
    Hey, I'm Orim67 on mtgo. I just got into top 8 of the legacy challenge, just to get rekt vs U/B Reanimator. I can go over the replays tomorrow if you are interested.
    Well done, friend. I've been following your work, and am eager to try your list out for myself. :-)

  2. #62
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Cheers for the report and nice one on your recent success. I've been on a bit of a dredge high recently and also feel like it's very well positioned with people mostly just playing DRS and Surgicals + Snaps, not hard to grind through.

    Since the meta is quite fair at the moment I've liked a couple of Prized Amalgams too, have you tried them at all?
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  3. #63

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Thanks for the report a very nice read.

    I love the faces of those guys in the stream when they see you playing Dredge game 1.
    They just look so hopeless.

  4. #64
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Vissah View Post
    Thanks for the report a very nice read.

    I love the faces of those guys in the stream when they see you playing Dredge game 1.
    They just look so hopeless.
    Haha, I enjoyed this too. I played Modern dredge a couple of weekends ago at MKM Barcelona and got very similar reactions for at least half the matches it felt like. People are really unprepared for the deck in both formats.

    I'm playing your list Orim at my LGS tonight. I usually play some Careful Studies and the full set of Coliseums, this is the first time I'll try Wraith actually. Will report back how it goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  5. #65
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Since the meta is quite fair at the moment I've liked a couple of Prized Amalgams too, have you tried them at all?
    Dabbled with an amalgam in the board for a little bit and it was okay, not terrible not amazing either. This build is focused around max ichorid consistency with the 8 extra black cards in the wraiths and pimps, so I think the amalgam would have to be the 5th rather than replacing the last ichorid. In terms of surgical extraction, having the pimps as extra bridge fodder post board lessens the need for amalgam in the case of ichorid getting extracted. I'd say 1 in the board if you have room for it is fine, but with how prevalent reanimator is I think the yard hate is more worthwhile.

    In relation to the bluer builds with studies and coliseums, I would say they are more consistent in terms of opening hand keeps because of the extra looting and dig effects and better at blowing the game open on turn 2 regularly, where the black build is better at subtle grinding and staying underneath a lot of hate. Just depends on the preferred playstyle really I think
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  6. #66
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Dabbled with an amalgam in the board for a little bit and it was okay, not terrible not amazing either. This build is focused around max ichorid consistency with the 8 extra black cards in the wraiths and pimps, so I think the amalgam would have to be the 5th rather than replacing the last ichorid. In terms of surgical extraction, having the pimps as extra bridge fodder post board lessens the need for amalgam in the case of ichorid getting extracted. I'd say 1 in the board if you have room for it is fine, but with how prevalent reanimator is I think the yard hate is more worthwhile.

    In relation to the bluer builds with studies and coliseums, I would say they are more consistent in terms of opening hand keeps because of the extra looting and dig effects and better at blowing the game open on turn 2 regularly, where the black build is better at subtle grinding and staying underneath a lot of hate. Just depends on the preferred playstyle really I think
    That makes sense, cheers for the insight.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  7. #67
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Thanks guys, the last few days have been especially good to me.
    I tried Michael Keller's list, too, and I missed the street wraiths and had to mull a lot because coliseum only produced blue mana. But I think that the amalgams have potential and maindeck ashen rider was relevant in some games. Mtgo might have more Drs decks than tournaments, which led to making the black version more successful.
    Today, I threw together a list with 3 SW, 2 PImps, 3 Studies, 3 Breakthroughs, 3 Ichorids, 4 Coliseums, 2 Amalgams and a Lotus Petal as the 13th land and somehow 5-0ed the first league with it. I hope that it gets posted. I like Petals, when you have many looting effects.

  8. #68
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Orim67 View Post
    Thanks guys, the last few days have been especially good to me.
    I tried Michael Keller's list, too, and I missed the street wraiths and had to mull a lot because coliseum only produced blue mana. But I think that the amalgams have potential and maindeck ashen rider was relevant in some games. Mtgo might have more Drs decks than tournaments, which led to making the black version more successful.
    Today, I threw together a list with 3 SW, 2 PImps, 3 Studies, 3 Breakthroughs, 3 Ichorids, 4 Coliseums, 2 Amalgams and a Lotus Petal as the 13th land and somehow 5-0ed the first league with it. I hope that it gets posted. I like Petals, when you have many looting effects.
    Very nice! I also had a good run at my store this evening going 4-0 beating Tin Fins, DnT and then GB Pox twice...killed 5 leylines!

    I like the sound of these numbers a lot. I was thinking this evening while playing about trying to move more towards a blue core as Coliseums are so insane, but retaining SWs and PImps like you've just said. I've felt like another land would be useful too for this, do you think a Petal is better than a City of Brass? I've only had them in the sideboard before and were nice, but this direction feels less explosive and better to grind.

    I think I'll play close to this next time

    3 Putrid Imp
    3 Breakthrough
    4 Faithless Looting
    3 Ichorid
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Street Wraith
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Prized Amalgam
    2 Careful Study
    3 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll

    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    4 Mana Confluence
    1 City of Brass

    4 Wear//Tear
    2 Dread Return
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Ashen Rider
    3 Firestorm
    1 Lotus Petal
    2 Faerie Macabre
    1 Memory's Journey
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  9. #69

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Very nice! I also had a good run at my store this evening going 4-0 beating Tin Fins, DnT and then GB Pox twice...killed 5 leylines!

    I like the sound of these numbers a lot. I was thinking this evening while playing about trying to move more towards a blue core as Coliseums are so insane, but retaining SWs and PImps like you've just said. I've felt like another land would be useful too for this, do you think a Petal is better than a City of Brass? I've only had them in the sideboard before and were nice, but this direction feels less explosive and better to grind.

    I think I'll play close to this next time

    3 Putrid Imp
    3 Breakthrough
    4 Faithless Looting
    3 Ichorid
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Street Wraith
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Prized Amalgam
    2 Careful Study
    3 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll

    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    4 Mana Confluence
    1 City of Brass

    4 Wear//Tear
    2 Dread Return
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Ashen Rider
    3 Firestorm
    1 Lotus Petal
    2 Faerie Macabre
    1 Memory's Journey
    Hi Whitefaces, I see we find ourselves again on the same side after some months with the good old loved Miracles.
    I'm testing a very similar list, without SW and I'm willing to try them out, so I'll basically just copy yours for this week.
    My question is: do you find yourself siding in Memory's journey just as protection against surgical or do you bring it in only against graveyard decks?
    Also the deck seems really tight, If you would have to bring in the whole dread return packet with Iona and I suppose a petal against combo, what would you take out? I would guess like this, but I'm not sure: +2DR +Iona + Petal -City -PImp -2Amalgam

  10. #70
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Pische View Post
    Hi Whitefaces, I see we find ourselves again on the same side after some months with the good old loved Miracles.
    I'm testing a very similar list, without SW and I'm willing to try them out, so I'll basically just copy yours for this week.
    My question is: do you find yourself siding in Memory's journey just as protection against surgical or do you bring it in only against graveyard decks?
    Also the deck seems really tight, If you would have to bring in the whole dread return packet with Iona and I suppose a petal against combo, what would you take out? I would guess like this, but I'm not sure: +2DR +Iona + Petal -City -PImp -2Amalgam
    Indeed :) Still very dedicated to Miracles, but enjoying exploring a lot of other archetypes too these days.

    I'm still quite new to dredge so I'd fall back on others' advice if they disagree, and if they could chime in too I'd be interested in their answers as well. But my feelings on your questions are

    Memory's Journey: Both, it's good as an anti Surgical card, and obviously has application vs something like Reanimator. I've played with it very little so far though.

    And yeah, that sideboarding sounds about right to me. Having 3 ofs definitely makes trimming cards harder, but I think you can summarize cards roughly into 'core' 'grind' and 'explosive' (for lack of a better word!)

    Core:
    4 Faithless Looting
    2-3 Ichorid
    3-4 Narcomoeba
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Bridge from Below
    2-3 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll

    Grind:
    3 Putrid Imp
    2 Prized Amalgam
    2 Careful Study

    Explosive:
    3 Breakthrough
    3 Street Wraith
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond

    Depending on the matchup you want to be cutting from either the grind or explosive side, then potentially trimming on some of the core cards. Like last night vs the decks with Leylines, I was cutting all Breakthroughs and LEDs for Wear//Tears, DR package of Iona + Rider and a Grudge for E Bridges. Vs Tin Fins I cut 3 PImps, 1 Thug and 2 Ichorid for 1 Journey, 2 Faerie, 2 DR and Iona.

    All that being said, maybe this list is a bit unfocused and Orims 'almost quad-lazer' one is better.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  11. #71
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Dabbled with an amalgam in the board for a little bit and it was okay, not terrible not amazing either. This build is focused around max ichorid consistency with the 8 extra black cards in the wraiths and pimps, so I think the amalgam would have to be the 5th rather than replacing the last ichorid. In terms of surgical extraction, having the pimps as extra bridge fodder post board lessens the need for amalgam in the case of ichorid getting extracted. I'd say 1 in the board if you have room for it is fine, but with how prevalent reanimator is I think the yard hate is more worthwhile.

    In relation to the bluer builds with studies and coliseums, I would say they are more consistent in terms of opening hand keeps because of the extra looting and dig effects and better at blowing the game open on turn 2 regularly, where the black build is better at subtle grinding and staying underneath a lot of hate. Just depends on the preferred playstyle really I think
    This was basically the answer I was looking from Orim. Thanks Kap'n. Looks like you're definitely onto something and I like how you thought about your build and how it plays out. Cool to see your list being adopted with success!
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  12. #72

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Hey all, 6-0ed a local tournament with Whitefaces build.
    I found the deck to be extremely efficient, I only lost 2 games.
    Opponents were d&t, stoneblade, 2x elves, 4c, omnishow.

  13. #73

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    I been playing and testing with Orim`s Quad deck and it`s been a blast to play.
    I am going pretty good and I am starting to have a good feel for the deck. I think I will keep playing with this build for a while to get a feeling for the deck and the format. When I am feeling more comfortable playing Legacy I will be experimenting with other style builds. Also I really love decks with mostly four off`s.

    The LED`s have been proxied so far and sometimes I am thinking of being better off with just Amalgam`s instead of the LED`s. No doubt I am wrong and still unexperienced with the deck and a lot of matchups but I get the feeling that the deck will also run good enough without LED.
    I will get them probably later this week and then from next year I will be playing Legacy almost exclusively to prepare for GP Shizuoka next year December.

  14. #74

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Some thoughts after playing 7 rounds in the Baltimore Classic today with Almost Quadlazer (2:2 split Coliseum: City of Brass, 4 Street Wraith, 0 Studies, 3:1 split Thug:Darkblast) [3-4 in matches/8-9 in games]

    • I never really noticed the absence of Study, I cannot recall any hands I mulliganed that were keepable if the Street Wraiths had been Studies. However, there were games when I needed to find anti-hate and Study would have dug me an extra card deeper.
    • I was never given the opportunity to Street Wraith in response to a Surgical or DRS activation, but Cycling on my opponent's end step to possibly hit Narcos & Ichorids happened multiple times. It feels a bit weaker compared to when I do that with Manaless Dredge, but thats because LED Dredge has a lower threat density
    • Putrid Imp was an all-star the whole day, it regularly got in for chip damage & let me control when I wanted to put important things in the graveyard like Ichorid & Bridge. This let me control the information my opponent's had and screwed with their combat math and lead to blowouts in response to removal
    • Cracking LED with Street Wraith on the stack feels awkward. Its not weak, in fact its a strong play, it just feels weird having a card in hand after cracking LED.
    • The number 1 thing I was missing was main deck Dread Return. I typically run DR + Iona/Ashen Rider in the main which is a personal choice. Going forward I'll probably do some shaving to include DR + Target. I like having access to something that just says "I Win This Game"
    • About 1/2 of my opponents had no idea how to play the match up other than "graveyard hate is good". Twice my opponents exiled the wrong target with Surgical and lost because of it. Only 3 of my game losses were directly due to Graveyard hate, the others were either my opponents having better draws/varience or me punting.


    Why 3:1 Split on Thug:Darkblast?
    • I have 3 Duel Deck Thugs & 1 Ravnica Thug
    • Darkblast is a Dredge card that you can cast from hand to get directly in yard (as long as there's a target)
    • Randomly killing X/1s & Upkeep Blast>Dredge>Blast to kill X/2s is sometimes very strong
    • Can kill Ichorids, Thugs, & Narcos for Bridge Triggers and to save them from Exile effects.
    • Darkblasting a Thespian Stage that earlier become a Dryad Arbor when your opponent goes for Stage-Depths
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  15. #75
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Oh shit. Just won the Baltimore classic, 8-0-2 for the day. You know what that means. Another epic report to come
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  16. #76
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Oh shit. Just won the Baltimore classic, 8-0-2 for the day. You know what that means. Another epic report to come
    That was you? WERRRK.

  17. #77
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Oh shit. Just won the Baltimore classic, 8-0-2 for the day. You know what that means. Another epic report to come
    Congrats on the win. Looking forward to the report.
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  18. #78
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Oh shit. Just won the Baltimore classic, 8-0-2 for the day. You know what that means. Another epic report to come
    If its half as fire as the last one my body is ready. Congrats on the win bro!
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  19. #79
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    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Pische View Post
    Hey all, 6-0ed a local tournament with Whitefaces build.
    I found the deck to be extremely efficient, I only lost 2 games.
    Opponents were d&t, stoneblade, 2x elves, 4c, omnishow.
    Nicely done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Oh shit. Just won the Baltimore classic, 8-0-2 for the day. You know what that means. Another epic report to come
    Awesome! Congrats, can't wait for this report.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  20. #80

    Re: [Primer] Dredge

    Not gonna lie I'm super jealous that you won the Classic considering with the exception of my miser's Darkblast we ran identical lists.

    I now have to ask myself how much the difference in our records were caused by me playing worse vs me having worse luck.

    Congratulations, looking forward to seeing your report.
    "If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
    -Anonymous

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