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Thread: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

  1. #1

    Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Hi everyone!

    I'm just getting back into Magic after several years away. I am looking for some feedback on the deck I am building. This is primarily for casual play, but I would like it to be strong enough to take to an occasional event without making me look like a complete novice.

    Here is the deck:


    //CREATURES
    3x Wall of Tears
    2x Sage Owl
    2x Ephemeron

    //ARTIFACTS
    3x Winter Orb
    3x Black Vice
    2x Icy Manipulator
    2x Ring of Gix
    2x Portcullis x2
    1x Static Orb

    //ENCHANTMENT
    4x Propaganda
    1x Pendrell Mists

    //INSTANT
    4x Counterspell
    3x Boomerang
    3x Unsummon

    //SORCERY
    4x Tinker

    //LAND
    19x Island
    1x Desert
    1x Ghost Town


    The strategy is pretty straight forward. Use the Winter Orb/Propaganda combo to prevent creatures from attacking. The Static Orb, Portcullis and Pendrell Mist add some flexibility while accomplishing the same basic goal of shutting down creatures.

    Once the opponent's mana is restricted by the orb, Boomerang, Unsummon, and Wall of Tears help clear the playing field of threats.

    Icy Manipulator and Ring of Gix allow me to tap the orbs to free up my own lands or tap my opponent's cards.

    Tinker helps me get my artifacts out faster or dump extra orbs/Portcullis for a Black Vise to deal damage.

    Black Vise is my primary damage dealer but Ephemeron can come in later in the game and speed up the kill.

    I've got a few changes in mind:

    Replace Ephemeron with Steel Hellkite or another strong and hard to block artifact creature. That way I can use Tinker to bring it into play.

    Replace one Tinker and the owls with 3 Long-Term Plans to help bring out Propaganda more quickly.

    I'm also considering dropping the walls in exchange for another Black Vice and some Frozem Aether.

    I appreciate your thoughts!

  2. #2

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Tinker is banned so you have to take that out.

  3. #3

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_D View Post
    Tinker is banned so you have to take that out.
    Well that's a big fat bummer. Are there any good replacement cards? I've been away from the game for around 15 years, and a LOT has changed.

  4. #4

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    First of all, welcome back to the game.

    This list reminds me of when I first started. Brings back a lot of fond memories.

    A synergy that I have noticed: Winter Orb and Static Orb both only work while untapped, so you can tap it via Ring of Gix or Icy Manipulator during your opponent's end step, and you will still be able to untap all your stuff.

    Also, as previously mentioned, Tinker is unfortunately banned in Legacy.

    A couple of noteworthy cards pop into my head:

    Academy Ruins - allows you to get back your artifacts once they are destroyed or countered.
    Intuition - allows you to get a copy of the card you want, while putting others in the grave, so you can still get them back via Academy Ruins.
    Budget option for Intuition might be Fabricate, as it can get any artifact you want.
    Ensnaring Bridge - forces your opponents creatures to sit back while you dig for your win condition. This card has gone up in price due to its popularity in both Legacy and Modern. A budget option might simply be to use Copy Enchantment on the Propaganda.
    Finisher that is low cost might be a throwback to "ye olde Serra Angel" in the form of Serra Sphinx, as it is literally a color shifted Serra Angel.

    Edit: Consider Brainstorm, Preordain, and Ponder as inexpensive (both mana wise and monetary) ways to dig for specific cards you might need.

    Edit2: If money is not an option, there are obviously a lot of cards that could be mentioned for the sake of making a very competitive list, but I'm going to assume that you're going to want to take it a little slow as you ease your way back into the game. The price of a lot of the "good" cards have gone up considerably over the years. For example, Back to Basics is probably really good if you don't want to run any non-basic lands at all, but suggestions cannot really be made unless we know your potential budget.

  5. #5

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Thanks for the suggestions, AceOfJacks!

    Yes, I am pacing my new card purchases. I want to pick up just a few cards and hopefully build up to more over time.

    Great suggestion with the Serra Sphinx. What do you think of the Sphinx vs Steel Hellkite?

    I did consider adding brainstorm. My thought is that a tutor-like card such as Long-Term Plans would be more efficient.

    Do you have any thoughts on Portcullis vs. Ensnaring Bridge? I included Portcullis because I thought having fewer creatures on the board would hinder attacks from creature abilities. On the other hand, without Tinker, I have no way of getting ride of it to play my own creature to end the game...

  6. #6

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Quote Originally Posted by --FireBeard-- View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions, AceOfJacks!

    Yes, I am pacing my new card purchases. I want to pick up just a few cards and hopefully build up to more over time.

    Great suggestion with the Serra Sphinx. What do you think of the Sphinx vs Steel Hellkite?

    I did consider adding brainstorm. My thought is that a tutor-like card such as Long-Term Plans would be more efficient.

    Do you have any thoughts on Portcullis vs. Ensnaring Bridge? I included Portcullis because I thought having fewer creatures on the board would hinder attacks from creature abilities. On the other hand, without Tinker, I have no way of getting ride of it to play my own creature to end the game...
    Note: PLEASE DO NOT THINK I'M TRYING TO BE MEAN OR RUDE IN THE FOLLOWING WALL OF TEXT. IT IS NOT MY INTENT TO DISCOURAGE OR DISSUADE YOU IN ANY FORM. I just have a habit of coming across the wrong way, and I TRULY like the fact that you have rejoined us, and I would love to see you continue playing. Just I want you to know what you're getting into by coming back after such a long break.


    Re: Portcullis: Portcullis is not a good option in my opinion. It costs more mana, and from what I can tell, your deck is going to have to worry about removing opponents threats rather than using your cards to get rid of your OWN permanents. There are different options that might be better for you, if you want to play incredibly defensively and still have the ability to attack later on. For example, there is a possibility that you can play a card like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn as a true late game finisher, but there are POPULAR decks out there RIGHT NOW that literally CHEAT it into play by casting Snow and Tell on turn 1 or 2. How do you plan on stopping your opponent with a Portcullis once they have a 15/15 flying creature before you can even cast the Portcullis?
    Ensnaring Bridge was a card I suggested simply because of what it does to help you as you're re-acquainting yourself with the game. Yes, it's expensive to acquire, but there is a high likelihood that you will end up keeping them in your collection binder for a long time once you get them. It's not the only option out there, but it was just one of the first cards that came into my mind when I though of your situation. Propaganda and Winter Orb are good to help slow you down, but you have to remember that you are not guaranteed to always have every card you want at the beginning of the game.

    ~~~ Additionally, and this part is probably the most important part, the changes in the game over the past 5, 10, and 15 years have dramatically changed the way competitive decks are crafted now. This effect, commonly referred to as "power creep," has forced several cards, which at the time of printing may have been powerful, to become mediocre and possibly unplayable. For example, I cannot remember the last time I heard someone say the words "Giant Growth" in a Constructed Legacy or Modern tournament. Back when I was a teenager, I played multiple copies of this card at Neutral Ground NYC, and won several Type 1 tournaments due Giant Growth, Incinerate, Blurred Mongoose, and even Fork. But if I had to recall the last time any of these cards did well at a major event, I don't know if I could.

    Re: Brainstorm: Brainstorm is a very POWERFUL card when combined with any effect that shuffles your library. If you're stuck with extra lands or uncastable spells in your and you want to get rid of them, you can cast Brainstorm, draw three cards, put two lands on top, then shuffle your library with a card like Fabricate, Long-Term Plans, Ponder, Polluted Delta, or Flooded Strand. It almost turns your Brainstorm into a pseudo-Ancestral Recall, in the sense that you filtered away cards you did not want to see.
    Once you do a little research into some of the top tier decks in the Modern and Legacy formats, you will see why cards like Fetchlands (Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, Scalding Tarn, Misty Fainforest) are in high demand in EVERY format in which they are legal. These add a tremendous amount of versatility to decks that otherwise have to rely on just drawing one card a turn, and have no way to filter or manipulate their hands or libraries.

    Honestly, with no disrespect to you or your deck idea, I do not think your current build of your deck will do well at a tournament outside of a local weekly at your LGS (local game store.) Think about this:
    1- Several players who play Legacy have been playing for well over 10 years, and have been able to see the evolution of the format. They have played as newer cards came out, were tested in different builds over the course of several months, or perhaps years, and as cards were banned, unbanned, and eventually replaced by better versions (for example, Murder has been considered obsolete because there is a "strictly better" version called Hero's Downfall) of themselves. Some cards just fall to the wayside, because they are not a strong as they used to be. Do you remember a card called Call of the Herd? Used to be a 40$ card. Now it's less than $1 in most places. Remember Spiritmonger? OMG A 5 mana 6/6 with NO DOWNSIDES, and it has OMG SO MANY ABILITIES?! I remember this card, and I lost many matches to it as a teenager, but now, it's not even played in popular lists anymore. Why? Because of power creep. There are just better cards out there.
    2- This actually ties into the my previous point, but I'll list it this way anyway. You stopped playing 15 years ago. What was the last set you remember? How many new cards came out since then? How many rules have changed? Do you remember mana burn? The game does not have mana burn any more. Do you remember how to mulligan correctly? That recently changed too. Do you remember a phrase called "damage on the stack?" That doesn't happen anymore. Do you know what a Planeswalker card is? Do you know how Wishes (Cunning Wish and Burning Wish) work? Because that changed too.
    Again, this is not to dissuade you, but I honestly think you should take a step back and play a different format before you come back to Legacy. You need to catch up on all the new things you missed, and I can think of no better way to do that than to play Modern (8th Edition and up) and Standard (approx. the last 2 years worth of cards.) Standard is more for the stores to keep the lights on, and to pay rent, and to attract newer players, but in my opinion, it is a very good place to get re-acquainted with the mechanics of the game. Yes, the game has been "watered down" in comparison to 5th edition rules, but it's still a very complex game, with a lot of different lines of play and a diverse field of mechanics.
    Modern, in my opinion, is the right format for you, for at least the next 6 months. Modern is probably the most popular format in the game at the moment, and it shows the true diversity of the game. You can go to a tournament with 9 rounds, and literally play against 9 different decks in each of those rounds. It has a wide selection of cards to choose from, without all the older mechanics that honestly have not aged well, like Banding and World Enchantments. It's a format that can possibly have decks from 100$ to build, to well over $1000 to build, but most of those cards that cost money are for your lands. These lands, while potentially expensive, are considered a one time investment, and once you acquire 4 of each Fetchland and 4 of each Shockland (Hallowed Fountain, Watery Grave, etc) you probably never have to acquire these ever again. Some people even have more than 4 of these, because they like to have multiple decks that may have the same mana base. A lot of players stick to Modern because it gives them a place to invest into the game without having to worry about "cards rotating out of the format every 2 years" like Standard does.

    My honest suggestion: Play Modern for the next 6 months. See what's out there, and find something that you like. Get a feel for the newer mechanics of the game. Once you decide to take the financial plunge to get back into Legacy, then you will be able to do so CONFIDENTLY, knowing the things you have missed, and knowing what cards to invest in without regret. You're not going to have a fun time playing against people who have a $3000 deck, who can literally kill you on turn 1 of the game, and all you can do is stare at them with a dumbfounded look on your face. If you're going to play the game again, you should be able to enjoy the game, and not have to play 15 years of catch-up, all while paying entry fees for tournaments. Legacy is not like riding a bike, in the sense that you can just hop back on and everything will be fine after a few years of not practicing. There are 25 years of cards in the database now. Literally. That's a lot of cards to consider when you're building a deck.

    End wall of text.

  7. #7

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    I don't disagree with AceOfJacks' general idea but I do think it's not unrealistic for you to jump straight back into Legacy if you don't want to play Modern (for instance, maybe you want to keep playing with (some) of the older cards you remember).

    If so, I think it can be done, but it takes a solid amount of work. My recommendation: read. Read these forums, especially the primers in Decks to Beat. Perhaps subscribe to premium on Starcitygames. And download Cockatrice and then test any of the tier 1 or 2 decks that interest you. After you're relatively comfortable with them, you can start trying to design your own lists.

    AceOfJacks is right that the Legacy card pool is massive. What he fails to mention is that only a tiny portion of those cards are 'playable'. Once you have a sense of which cards are playable and why those cards are playable, everything will seem dramatically simpler.

  8. #8

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Thanks for the feedback, you guys. This deck is not meant to be tournament competitive. It's a casual deck making use of many cards I already own, many of which aren't modern legal, as well as one of my favorite cards, Winter Orb.

    I'm not averse to playing Modern, but as LMental brought up, I want to continue using a lot of my existing collection. At least for now.

    I have been doing a ton of reading and am up to speed on much of the rules changes and new game mechanics. I feel like the best next step would be to start playing the game and get a feel for what's popular locally. Then I can start building my more competitive deck.

    In the meantime, the main reason I posted my deck here, is to get some advice on newer cards that might work well in it. I may not be able to buy all the top-tier cards, but it will help me put together a "to-buy" list. Also, posting here is an excuse to talk about MtG!

    I hope to have an updated deck list posted later today.

  9. #9

    Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Quote Originally Posted by LMental View Post
    I don't disagree with AceOfJacks' general idea but I do think it's not unrealistic for you to jump straight back into Legacy if you don't want to play Modern (for instance, maybe you want to keep playing with (some) of the older cards you remember).

    If so, I think it can be done, but it takes a solid amount of work. My recommendation: read. Read these forums, especially the primers in Decks to Beat. Perhaps subscribe to premium on Starcitygames. And download Cockatrice and then test any of the tier 1 or 2 decks that interest you. After you're relatively comfortable with them, you can start trying to design your own lists.

    AceOfJacks is right that the Legacy card pool is massive. What he fails to mention is that only a tiny portion of those cards are 'playable'. Once you have a sense of which cards are playable and why those cards are playable, everything will seem dramatically simpler.
    I totally agree on this. I think AceOfJacks post is very true and useful but not the advice in the end.

    Do play legacy. Just put some time into understandig the format and metagame first. Look at youtube videos, for example the SCG tournaments from a couple of years back. And read the primer of the decks in DTB and established decks.

    I returned too for about two years ago. Modern was never a question cause I wanted to play my old cards from 94.

    Unfortunatly I misjudged the format and bought into white stax, a deck that was decent like 10 years ago. I lost like every game I played thanks to a bad deck and my rusty skills. But what that experience did give me was a notion of how effective, fun and interactive the good decks of legacy is.

    I threw myself out on the web and watched every gameplay video I could see to grasp the design, strategy and card choices of popular legacy decks. I dont netdeck, cause i like the brewing part of legacy. But the cardpool is not that wide as you may think, given how many cards are just bad in legacy standards.

    Legacy is a wonderful format but it's rather punishing to inefficient decks.

  10. #10

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Here is my updated deck list:


    //CREATURES
    2x Steel Hellkite

    //ARTIFACTS
    4x Winter Orb
    4x Black Vise
    4x Icy Manipulator

    //ENCHANTMENT
    4x Propaganda
    2x Pendrell Mists
    2x Frozen Aether

    //INSTANT
    4x Counterspell
    4x Boomerang
    3x Brainstorm
    3x Long-Term Plans
    2x Force Spike

    //SORCERY
    3x Fabricate

    //LAND
    17x Island
    2x Wasteland
    1x Desert
    1x Ghost Town


    The strategy is to control the playing field while Black Vice whittles down my opponent's health. Then, I Fabricate a Steel Hellkite to finish the game.

    Winter Orb locks down my opponent's land while I use my Icy Manipulators to keep his lands tapped or to tap the orb on his turn and unlock my own mana base.

    Frozen Aether pulls the land lock even tighter, while Propaganda and Pendrell Mist all but shut down creature attacks.

    Long-Term Plans, Fabricate and Brainstorm help ensure I get the cards I need quickly to lock down the field.

    Counterspell, Force Spike and Boomerang help clear the field of other threats.

    This is kind of a budget deck right now. If/when I can afford it, I would replace the two Force Spikes and two Counterspells with Force of Will. I'd also add 4 Academy Ruins to help keep my artifacts alive, and two more Wasteland.

    I'm also considering replacing Steel Hellkite with Jace, Memory Adept. I think his ability to make my opponent draw 20 cards would be a game ending combo with the Black Vice.

    I appreciate the feedback on the deck.
    Last edited by Jander78; 08-24-2017 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Fixed tags

  11. #11

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    In my opinion,

    - Desert and Ghost Town are not needed. I would rather just have more Islands in those slots.
    - Sphinx's Tutelage might be a better option instead of Jace. Not many decks have the ability to deal with enchantments, and you can drop this and pretty much forget about it while you work on controlling the board.
    - Inkwell Leviathan, while expensive to cast, can be tutored via Fabricate, and has a lot of fun abilities that could prove useful. Additionally, if you want to try some fun stuff like Spreading Seas, you might catch a guy off guard and beat them with a giant Leviathan.
    - If you think you want to invest in a Wurmcoil Engine or two, those might give you a little more resiliency over the Hellkite. If they destroy it, you get more dudes. If not, you gain 6 life a turn, and kill whatever they block with.

    Edit: Dovescape could potentially be fun with Propaganda and Mists, but could be more cute than effective.

  12. #12

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Quote Originally Posted by --FireBeard-- View Post
    Here is my updated deck list:

    //ARTIFACTS
    Winter Orb x4
    Black Vice x4
    Icy Manipulator x4
    If memory serves correctly, Black Vice/Vise is banned in Legacy.
    Not a ban I agree with, but that's neither here nor there.

  13. #13

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    BV was unbanned.. had no impact whatsoever.

  14. #14

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post
    BV was unbanned.. had no impact whatsoever.
    Yep, I double checked that it's legal.

    Sphinx's Tutelage might be a better option instead of Jace. Not many decks have the ability to deal with enchantments, and you can drop this and pretty much forget about it while you work on controlling the board.
    - Inkwell Leviathan, while expensive to cast, can be tutored via Fabricate, and has a lot of fun abilities that could prove useful. Additionally, if you want to try some fun stuff like Spreading Seas, you might catch a guy off guard and beat them with a giant Leviathan.
    - If you think you want to invest in a Wurmcoil Engine or two, those might give you a little more resiliency over the Hellkite. If they destroy it, you get more dudes. If not, you gain 6 life a turn, and kill whatever they block with.

    Edit: Dovescape could potentially be fun with Propaganda and Mists, but could be more cute than effective.
    Wurmcoil Engine would be a good fit. I had heen thinking of using Darksteel Colossus, but I think it is too expensive into cast in this deck.

    Dovescape does look like a fun combo, especially for casual play.

  15. #15

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Quote Originally Posted by --FireBeard-- View Post
    I had heen thinking of using Darksteel Colossus, but I think it is too expensive into cast in this deck.

    .
    Also, you would definitely want to choose Blightsteel Colossus because it's way better. Just a heads up

  16. #16

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    If you want to play Winter Orb, I recommend trying my Soldier build with Winter Orb 4-of MD as a tempo tactic:

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/724333#online

  17. #17

    Re: Mono Blue Winter Orb Lockdown

    Quote Originally Posted by optml View Post
    Also, you would definitely want to choose Blightsteel Colossus because it's way better. Just a heads up
    Oops, I meant to type Blightsteel but accidentally typed Darksteel. It's an awesome card.

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