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Thread: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

  1. #821
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    In regards to playing Stage/Depths in Maverick, does anyone play Crop Rotation alongside it? I am still on the Punishing plan and I want to sideboard 1 Depths/Stage so I can have a way to close games fast, especially against combo decks. I'm a long-time turbo depths player and I absolutely love the versatility of Crop Rotation. I know Maverick is essentially a Knight of the Reliquary deck, but is there an argument for redundancy, such as 1-2 copies of Crop Rotation, that also tutors up lands faster? I'm thinking Bojuka Bog/Karakas as early as turns 1-2 rather than getting Knight t2, dig out land t3.

    Thoughts from the excellent Maverick community?
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  2. #822
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    In regards to playing Stage/Depths in Maverick, does anyone play Crop Rotation alongside it? I am still on the Punishing plan and I want to sideboard 1 Depths/Stage so I can have a way to close games fast, especially against combo decks. I'm a long-time turbo depths player and I absolutely love the versatility of Crop Rotation. I know Maverick is essentially a Knight of the Reliquary deck, but is there an argument for redundancy, such as 1-2 copies of Crop Rotation, that also tutors up lands faster? I'm thinking Bojuka Bog/Karakas as early as turns 1-2 rather than getting Knight t2, dig out land t3.

    Thoughts from the excellent Maverick community?
    I haven't play tested it at all, but this was where I left off when I was developing a Depths list:

    GW Maverick Depths

    Lands (28)
    4 Windswept Heath
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Marsh Flats
    4 Savannah
    1 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    1 Seijiri Steppe
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Bojuka Bog
    2 Wasteland
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Dark Depths
    1 Dryad Arbor

    Creatures (20)
    4 Weathered Wayfarer
    4 Mother of Runes
    1 Sylvan Safekeeper
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Ramunap Excavator

    Spells (12)
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Crop Rotation
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    It might be better if I added a black splash, especially since I already have Bojuka Bog and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth... but like I said, this list is untested and I stopped working on it a while ago to pursue other interests.

    EDIT: Maybe I should find a way to fit in a Gaea's Cradle. Crop Rotation for Cradle could potentially be better/faster than Crop Rotation for Urborg to speed up the combo? Not really sure...
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  3. #823
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Cool list, something I might work on depending on where I land. It looks like your plan was to utilize Weathered Wayfarer and Crop Rotation alongside the Knights as redundancy for tutoring Depths/Stage. I think it's a cool idea, basically trading one type of tutor for another (Wayfarer for Sylvan Scrying) and going with the alternative Knight beats plan. It gives me some ideas for templating, but I'm on the other side of the hybrid coin. You're attempting a combo deck with an alternative Maverick plan, I'm going for a Maverick plan with the option to combo out of the board. Its important to note that I'm not necessarily on Thalia's either (not maindeck with the Punishing Fire plan.) I am debating a few directions to approach combo matchups: ETutor package, Depths/Stage, and 3-4x Thalia. All are reasonable I think, but Thalia seems to be the route most Punishing lists take. I also have 3 flex spots in the maindeck that I could work with (2x Sylvan Library, 1x Maze of Ith) that could become other cards. Crop Rotation was one of the options to replace Library, and Library could go to the sideboard. Maze is likely correct in the maindeck, but with 4x Swords, 3x PFire, and a Karakas already in there it isn't as critical.

    List for reference (rough):

    4x Knight of the Reliquary
    3x Mother of Runes
    2x Stoneforge Mystic
    3x Aven Mindcensor
    3x Birds of Paradise
    1x Qasali Pridemage
    1x Reclamation Sage
    1x Scavenging Ooze
    1x Ramanup Excavator
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    1x Scryb Ranger

    4x Green Sun’s Zenith
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    3x Punishing Fire
    1x Umezawa’s Jitte
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    2x Sylvan Library

    4x Windswept Heath
    1x Wooded Foothills
    3x Arid Mesa
    1x Savannah
    1x Taiga
    3x Grove of the Burnwillows
    2x Forest
    2x Plains
    4x Wasteland
    1x Karakas
    1x Maze of Ith
    1x Dryad Arbor

    Sideboard
    2x Surgical Extraction
    2x Enlightened Tutor
    1x Oblivion Ring
    1x Tormod’s Crypt
    1x Ethersworn Canonist
    2x Pyroblast
    1x Nissa, Vital Force
    1x Ajani Vengeant
    2x Choke
    1x Dark Depths
    1x Thespian’s Stage
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  4. #824
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Cool list, something I might work on depending on where I land. It looks like your plan was to utilize Weathered Wayfarer and Crop Rotation alongside the Knights as redundancy for tutoring Depths/Stage. I think it's a cool idea, basically trading one type of tutor for another (Wayfarer for Sylvan Scrying) and going with the alternative Knight beats plan. It gives me some ideas for templating, but I'm on the other side of the hybrid coin. You're attempting a combo deck with an alternative Maverick plan, I'm going for a Maverick plan with the option to combo out of the board. Its important to note that I'm not necessarily on Thalia's either (not maindeck with the Punishing Fire plan.) I am debating a few directions to approach combo matchups: ETutor package, Depths/Stage, and 3-4x Thalia. All are reasonable I think, but Thalia seems to be the route most Punishing lists take. I also have 3 flex spots in the maindeck that I could work with (2x Sylvan Library, 1x Maze of Ith) that could become other cards. Crop Rotation was one of the options to replace Library, and Library could go to the sideboard. Maze is likely correct in the maindeck, but with 4x Swords, 3x PFire, and a Karakas already in there it isn't as critical.
    Yeah, the plan for my list is definitely to make a 20/20, facilitated in a Maverick shell. The deck gives up a bit of speed compared to a normal Turbo Depths list, but makes up for it with a significantly better backup plan of creature beats. The inspiration for me was the fact that I wanted to abuse Weathered Wayfarer, and this seemed like the best shell to do that with.

    The other goal was to try and improve some of Turbo Depths difficult matchups, although I'm not sure what those even are anymore.

    I think going forward, I'd be interested in splashing black for Thoughtseize, Zealous Persecution, Assassin's Trophy, and Abrupt Decay in the sideboard.

    I also think Cabal Pit would be a great card to have to beat Mother of Runes mirrors...
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  5. #825
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Yeah, the plan for my list is definitely to make a 20/20, facilitated in a Maverick shell. The deck gives up a bit of speed compared to a normal Turbo Depths list, but makes up for it with a significantly better backup plan of creature beats. The inspiration for me was the fact that I wanted to abuse Weathered Wayfarer, and this seemed like the best shell to do that with.

    The other goal was to try and improve some of Turbo Depths difficult matchups, although I'm not sure what those even are anymore.

    I think going forward, I'd be interested in splashing black for Thoughtseize, Zealous Persecution, Assassin's Trophy, and Abrupt Decay in the sideboard.

    I also think Cabal Pit would be a great card to have to beat Mother of Runes mirrors...
    I hope I'm not speaking out of turn with this: I think at that point you would just be a worse 'slow' depths list, even slower than the Mox Diamond lists. I agree that the backup plan is robust with Knight beats and a GSZ toolbox, however as a Turbo player I have found the deck able to fight on a value/grind plan very well as-is. I tried Nic Fit w/Depths, 'Slow Depths' (w/DRS when it was legal), and even BG Rock splash Depths (Goyfs, Bobs, DRS, Hymns, etc.) I perceived the deck as needing a better value plan when all I really needed to do was get my sideboard in order. Of all the variants I found Turbo Depths to be the best version at going fast g1 while still having a good grind plan post-board. Depths matchups I see as being difficult are Moon Stompy, Aggro Loam, Miracles, and Death and Taxes. Without knowledge of what the good matchups are for Maverick, I couldn't tell you how well it fairs against those decks.

    I think the approach of Weathered Wayfarer is very cool, and potentially very good. It's another angle of toolbox-ing lands that is redundant with Knights. I think the card that really shines in your list is Mother of Runes; theres a reason Sylvan Safekeeper is so important to Turbo Depths, it's an on-color protection for Marit Lage. Having white available for Mother and Swords to Plowshares is spicy as hell. I don't think I'm ready to give up on the PFire plan just yet, it's so good against the fair decks. The Depths plan for me is specifically to shore up what I guess are bad combo matchups for Maverick, basically an 'oops I win' button if I can disrupt with early without giving opponents a chance to climb back.
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  6. #826
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I hope I'm not speaking out of turn with this: I think at that point you would just be a worse 'slow' depths list, even slower than the Mox Diamond lists. I agree that the backup plan is robust with Knight beats and a GSZ toolbox, however as a Turbo player I have found the deck able to fight on a value/grind plan very well as-is. I tried Nic Fit w/Depths, 'Slow Depths' (w/DRS when it was legal), and even BG Rock splash Depths (Goyfs, Bobs, DRS, Hymns, etc.) I perceived the deck as needing a better value plan when all I really needed to do was get my sideboard in order. Of all the variants I found Turbo Depths to be the best version at going fast g1 while still having a good grind plan post-board. Depths matchups I see as being difficult are Moon Stompy, Aggro Loam, Miracles, and Death and Taxes. Without knowledge of what the good matchups are for Maverick, I couldn't tell you how well it fairs against those decks.

    I think the approach of Weathered Wayfarer is very cool, and potentially very good. It's another angle of toolbox-ing lands that is redundant with Knights. I think the card that really shines in your list is Mother of Runes; theres a reason Sylvan Safekeeper is so important to Turbo Depths, it's an on-color protection for Marit Lage. Having white available for Mother and Swords to Plowshares is spicy as hell. I don't think I'm ready to give up on the PFire plan just yet, it's so good against the fair decks. The Depths plan for me is specifically to shore up what I guess are bad combo matchups for Maverick, basically an 'oops I win' button if I can disrupt with early without giving opponents a chance to climb back.
    It's all good, I'm perfectly fine with the criticism. It's an untested brew. I just thought Weathered Weathered was an incredibly strong card that can tutor up both pieces of the combo itself, and tried to build a deck around it. You asked about Crop Rotation, so I posted my list.

    Of the bad matchups you listed, I think Miracles is the only one that would be difficult, given the fact that regular Maverick struggles with that matchup, so the hybrid plan likely doesn't do much to improve it. Although with that said, Weathered Wayfarer as a card advantage engine could potentially make that matchup better, so maybe. Also, the large creature package here could possibly stretch their removal too thin to be able to deal with a well-timed 20/20, but I don't really know.

    The rest of the bad matchups seem like they should be pretty good for a Maverick hybrid deck, but then again, there may be some good matchups for Turbo Depths that become much worse, so ultimately it could just be a wash.

    It was definitely a fun idea to brew with, though.
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  7. #827

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    In a white depths list you might want to consider Solemnity

  8. #828
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Hey all im new to this deck and wanted to know what the good/bad matchups were?
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    I think worst matchups for GW Maverick shell are:

    1) Belcher
    2) All spells
    3) Elves
    4) BR Reanimator
    5) Miracles


    [/cards]
    Hmm wow, seems like a lot of the most played decks right now.does this also apply to Punishing versions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBFREELY
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by zulander View Post
    Hmm wow, seems like a lot of the most played decks right now.does this also apply to Punishing versions?
    Never played punishing but it probably gets better against Miracles, but probably worse against the combo decks, and elves it maybe gets a slight bump up but probably nothing significant.
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  12. #832

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Im a long year Maverick player, especially Punmav and I can tell you Elves is really OKAY with pfire. Its not great, but not even nearly as bad as Belcher or Tinfins. But tbh Belcher and Tinfins will loose to any blue deck and win to any nonblue deck so we shouldnt care about those MUs. And for Miracels (as well as Elves) I found Chalice of the Void to be really really good in the SB.
    BR Reanimator is bad but if you really feel you need extra hate against them you can improve that MU really much by adding Tormods Cryp or even Leylines to the SB since they are much better for that MU than surgical/faerie marcabre. Anyway I dont think its worse it because we can as well win the MU in the fair way if they dont have the T1/2 Grisel even thou its still a bad MU. Right now I feel like Maverick is really really great positioned in the metagame with all those fair blue decks dominating the format.

  13. #833

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Hey I've created The Green Suns Zenith [www.greensunszenith.com] to house all things Legacy Maverick! As The Source is the real home for Maverick players since the birth of the deck I'd love any feedback anyone has :)

  14. #834

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Excuse me for being stupid, but why are people playing Banishing Light instead of Oblivion Ring? Is there a difference?

    Oh, sorry, I know there is a difference, but I can not see anything positive with the card instead of O-Ring. Especially in a list without Flickerwisp etc.

  15. #835

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by zulander View Post
    Hey all im new to this deck and wanted to know what the good/bad matchups were?
    I'm long time maverick \ p.maverick \jund \zoo player

    Matchup are

    Orrible: Show and tell, ANT, TES, Belcher, Combo in general

    Bad: Miracle, Elves, BR reanimator,

    Bad to fari: Eldrazi

    Fair: Delver deck, Dark Depths, Esper deck,

    Good: random deck
    Why wouldn't you play Zoo? Instead of a 5/5 for B that's immune to Push, you can get a 4/5 for 1G that's not. And instead of a 3/2 flyer for U, you can get a 3/3 double conditional for G. Oh, and you also get to not include the two best colors in Legacy, or any of the best spells, and you're a dog to combo.

    What's not to love?

  16. #836

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by useL View Post
    Excuse me for being stupid, but why are people playing Banishing Light instead of Oblivion Ring? Is there a difference?

    Oh, sorry, I know there is a difference, but I can not see anything positive with the card instead of O-Ring. Especially in a list without Flickerwisp etc.
    Hey the issue with O-Ring is that it can also target YOUR permanents. Say they have a Baleful Strix on the field and you have a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. If you cast an Oblivion Ring and in response your opponent casts Fatal Push on the Strix, your only target now is your own Gideon. Feels bad.

    Banishing Light thankfully can only target your opponents permanents and without Flickerwisp in the deck we cannot abuse the wording of O-Ring (as you said).

  17. #837

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Two maverick lists 5-0ed at a big mtgo tourney...

    Maverick
    Creatures (25)
    1 Dryad Arbor 14.71
    3 Birds of Paradise g 21.03
    2 Mother of Runes w 5.24
    3 Noble Hierarch g 132.00
    2 Gaddock Teeg gw 15.70
    1 Scavenging Ooze 1g 4.46
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 1w 34.47
    2 Knight of Autumn 1gw 6.98
    3 Knight of the Reliquary 1gw 9.00
    3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest bgu 26.40
    2 Ramunap Excavator 2g 7.20
    Planeswalkers (3)
    3 Vivien, Champion of the Wilds 2g 8.22
    Spells (8)
    3 Green Sun's Zenith xg 29.01
    3 Swords to Plowshares w 3.75
    2 Abrupt Decay bg 4.96
    Enchantments (1)
    1 Sylvan Library 1g 39.99
    Lands (23)
    2 Bayou 597.98
    1 Bojuka Bog 2.24
    1 Dark Depths 28.99
    1 Forest 0.00
    1 Horizon Canopy 66.03
    1 Karakas 20.82
    1 Plains 0.00
    2 Savannah 374.04
    1 Scrubland 189.99
    1 Thespian's Stage 2.45
    1 Tropical Island 308.05
    2 Verdant Catacombs 147.04
    4 Wasteland 172.76
    4 Windswept Heath 68.20


    Maverick v2
    Creatures (26)
    1 Dryad Arbor 14.71
    4 Mother of Runes w 10.48
    4 Noble Hierarch g 176.00
    1 Gaddock Teeg gw 7.85
    1 Qasali Pridemage gw 1.25
    1 Scavenging Ooze 1g 4.46
    1 Scryb Ranger 1g 4.99
    2 Stoneforge Mystic 1w 69.98
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 1w 34.47
    1 Knight of Autumn 1gw 3.49
    4 Knight of the Reliquary 1gw 12.00
    1 Ramunap Excavator 2g 3.60
    1 Tireless Tracker 2g 10.00
    1 Palace Jailer 2ww 4.49
    Spells (8)
    4 Green Sun's Zenith xg 38.68
    4 Swords to Plowshares w 5.00
    Artifacts (2)
    1 Umezawa's Jitte 2 16.40
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice 3 53.99
    Enchantments (1)
    1 Sylvan Library 1g 39.99
    Lands (23)
    1 Flooded Strand 27.08
    2 Forest 0.00
    1 Gaea's Cradle 359.99
    2 Horizon Canopy 132.06
    1 Karakas 20.82
    1 Maze of Ith 20.76
    2 Misty Rainforest 139.98
    2 Plains 0.00
    3 Savannah 561.06
    4 Wasteland 172.76
    4 Windswept Heath 68.20

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tourname...19-05-04#paper

  18. #838

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by zulander View Post
    Hey all im new to this deck and wanted to know what the good/bad matchups were?
    Bad: Miracles, Omnishow, Punishing Thieves
    Hard: Grixis Control, Stoneblade, BR Reanimator, Elves, Goblins, Sneak and Show (No Omni)
    Good: Storm, DnT, Delver (Grixis, RUG, BUG, Deaths Shadow, and UR), Aggro Loam, Humans
    Favored: Belcher, Lands, Cloudpost, UB Reanimator, Dredge, Eldrazi, Tezzerator, Dragon Stompy

  19. #839

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    As said in food chain thread: the new white knight is interesting. He fetches mother of runes and mana dork, beats for 3 or 4 exalted, then sacrifices to protect sideboard pieces as choke. Also is a house versus storm and terminus.

    Would you play 4x in a new "more white" list of maverick?

  20. #840

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Hey peeps, i played Aggro Loam for 2 years but want to change my deck into Maverick. I've seen some recent lists playing Leyline of the Void, is it necessary or were the matchups as horrible people describe? Also How's the new Vivien been?

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