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Thread: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

  1. #521
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulabnar View Post
    Match 1: What do you mean? to many board?
    Match 5: TNN -> lost is one of the greatest weekness of this deck
    Match 9: That is pretty normal against combo
    Match 10: That is pretty normal against combo
    Match 12: 1 card scoop is one of the greatest weekness of this deck
    Match 15: 1 card scoop is one of the greatest weekness of this deck


    This is why this deck is not competitive, 1 card scoop, cannot slow down combo, cannot close the winning game.
    Definitely we need to change something in the decklist.

    GW creature.dec does not have much interaction with Turn 0/1 decks and most likely never will and most of these turn 1 losses are crushed just by being on the play as opposed to the draw. A turn 1 sire loses(most likely) to a turn 1 mom or just a swords if you know what they are on. In the latter example, fetching basics stops blood moon from being effective, he just lost in the creature battle... which is not super common just unlucky.

    The best we can do is play a Thalia turn 2 and go from there. I have beaten storm, sneak and show, reanimator, and most other fast combo deck with turn 2 Thalia and when she isn't good enough you can ask yourself if you want to play force of will and daze as opposed to Mom and KotR.

    The actual take from this report is what happened in the UR Delver and Turbo Depths matchups(both just sound like the opponent had the nuts), as I find both of those very favorable for us. The Stoneblade matchup is pretty even and very draw and list dependent, especially with the number of pridemages/decays you play to keep equipment off the table.

    @Skizz what list were you playing?
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  2. #522

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulabnar View Post
    Match 1: What do you mean? to many board?
    Match 5: TNN -> lost is one of the greatest weekness of this deck
    Match 9: That is pretty normal against combo
    Match 10: That is pretty normal against combo
    Match 12: 1 card scoop is one of the greatest weekness of this deck
    Match 15: 1 card scoop is one of the greatest weekness of this deck


    This is why this deck is not competitive, 1 card scoop, cannot slow down combo, cannot close the winning game.
    Definitely we need to change something in the decklist.
    Your last point is just so wrong, by your logic no deck without force of will is competitive as every other deck is able to die turn 1 on the draw (and even the force decks when they keep a hand w/o force about half of the time). This deck scoops to 1 card way-less often than other decks, we can beat cards other decks scoop to like bloodmoon, chalice, emrakul, etc. The deck does just fine competitive and so does DNT which suffers the same problems except it also doesn't have access to Thoughtseize and ZP.

    Can't slow down combo? Thoughtseize, Thalia, etc etc. Speaking of '1 card scoop' ANT literally scoops to Gaddock Teeg, ANT is still a competitive deck.

    We have a lot more outs to Turbo Depths match up than other decks, instead of push/bolt and decay we get to play plow and also have Karakas and Wasteland and Knight to go get them as well as other random garbage like Mother + Scryb Ranger, discard, Pridemage for needle etc. Yeah they have needle/discard/safekeeper, that's what makes the matchup interactive instead of being some Grixis deck and hoping your edict or Strix chump + Jace gets there.

  3. #523
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    @Zulabnar:

    Match 1: UR Delver: opp was on 4 life while i had double DR on board and some beaters - i could have easily won at my next round.
    i was on 6 life.
    i just should have used 1 DR to eat the only creature on the GY (Dryad Arbor) to gain 2 life on my turn- but instead i eat inst/sorc to have him lose 2 life on my turn...
    he was cut on red but topdecked his only out - a fetchland - fetch, bolt / attack with TNN.. game over :(

    Match 12 against UB Reanimator i mulliganed first game and scry'ed a STP on top of Library so first i would lost my hand and then lost STP....
    i instantly scoop to this situation to not give him any information at all. was the best i could do. game 2 was an easy win and game 3 he had the nuts!

    Match 15 against Red Prison: same situation - hes on the play and shows me blood moon, i draw card for the turn and had no basics / scoop to give no information.

    this deck is very competitive - still beats the best deck in the format (grixis delver) - i even dont want the deck to be tier 1

    @Lavafrogg
    Decklist is on the last page at the bottom.

    i just wrote about the bad matches because the other were matches where maverick does what it does.

    for example against the 3 grixis matches: turn 1 - DRS / turn 2 DRS+Mother / turn 3 whatever (knight/SFM/Thalia-Waste) Scrybranger with Equipment etc.
    and had enough removal to kill every thread theyplayed instantly

    i beat Lands because of DRS,Mother,Thalia,Knight,Wasteland,Cradle.
    (i won last match because of following sitation (he only has an untapped Tabernacle and a horizon canopy at end of his turn. so im pretty safe he doesnt do anything on my turn.
    on my upkeep i flashed in Scrybranger, activate Knight - fetch Gaeas Cradle, pay upkeep costs of tabernacle, bounce land->untap knight (waste my own cradle) and beat for 10 (lethal)

    Burn does not have enough removal for my thalia and burn into face... at end of game 2 i have 6 nonbasics in hand and only 2 basics on the battlefield to be safe of PoP

    against ANT he doesnt have any removal for my hatebears (Thalia and Gaddock Teeg)

    nic fit was like hes always going 2+/1 every game with Deed but in the end some small creatures of mine won the beatdown.

    Jeskai Stoneblade won on the back of TNN as i mentioned not drawing any -1-1 effects (had him locked under Choke etc./pridemage for batterskull etc.)

  4. #524

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Hello everyone i am new-ish to legacy i have played a few different strategies but find i like green creature decks the most. I was wondering if i can get some feedback on this list i put together after reading the primer.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1109673#paper

    Thank you

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I usually find the depths match-up, like others, to be pretty good. Turn 2 Knight is tough to beat for them. Combine that with the possibility of crucible snake plus plow if they get a nut fast lage and you're fine. Just gotta play tight and not sloppy and the match up is favorable. This and True Name are why I am playing up to 3 blessed alliance in my current stone blade list
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by IanCHarding View Post
    Hello everyone i am new-ish to legacy i have played a few different strategies but find i like green creature decks the most. I was wondering if i can get some feedback on this list i put together after reading the primer.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1109673#paper

    Thank you
    Manabase is to greedy and quite unreasonable, you running full SFM package which require land drop each turn to be effective, your list running:
    14 green sources
    13 white sources
    4 colorless sources

    basically only 20 lands which gives mana - that's to few, I strongly advice bump +1 land or even +2.

    only 3 wastelands which should be your main plan - why only 3 ?

    +1 Wasteland, + 1 Savannah/Canopy and deck should work much better.

    When you constructing your manabase omit lands which doesn't give mana like:
    DD combo or Maze.

    Good point is to run Gaea's Cradle when running such a big Equip package - it gives an egde to cast equip (via SFM or normally) and attach in the same turn. It also works miracles with sink like Tireless Tracker.

    About SB I would replace 1-2 Concil judgement for some Blessed Alliance, it works very well as a trick, life gain, and untargeting removal.

  7. #527

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    Manabase is to greedy and quite unreasonable, you running full SFM package which require land drop each turn to be effective, your list running:
    14 green sources
    13 white sources
    4 colorless sources

    basically only 20 lands which gives mana - that's to few, I strongly advice bump +1 land or even +2.

    only 3 wastelands which should be your main plan - why only 3 ?

    +1 Wasteland, + 1 Savannah/Canopy and deck should work much better.

    When you constructing your manabase omit lands which doesn't give mana like:
    DD combo or Maze.

    Good point is to run Gaea's Cradle when running such a big Equip package - it gives an egde to cast equip (via SFM or normally) and attach in the same turn. It also works miracles with sink like Tireless Tracker.

    About SB I would replace 1-2 Concil judgement for some Blessed Alliance, it works very well as a trick, life gain, and untargeting removal.

    Thank you for the advice i have updated the manabase and cut 1 SFM to add another land to the deck. i did add 1 Blessed Alliance to the SB. our area has a good amount of TNN deck running around so i like having ways to deal with it.
    If i didn't want to buy a gaea's cradle do you have a recommendation on a different land to use? while I'm not trying to be 100% "budget" cradle is $400 which is a bit much for the amount of legacy I'd get to play.

    Updated list for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1109673#paper

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by IanCHarding View Post
    Thank you for the advice i have updated the manabase and cut 1 SFM to add another land to the deck. i did add 1 Blessed Alliance to the SB. our area has a good amount of TNN deck running around so i like having ways to deal with it.
    If i didn't want to buy a gaea's cradle do you have a recommendation on a different land to use? while I'm not trying to be 100% "budget" cradle is $400 which is a bit much for the amount of legacy I'd get to play.

    Updated list for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1109673#paper
    Unfortunately there is no replacement for Cradle, that's the reason why it's so expensive :-). It gives additional routes with KotR and explosive turn 2-3 if drawn.

    I was little inspired by Lavafrogg and try to assamble SFM-less Maverick with huge CA. It's probably won't be competitive until Wizards print answer to TNN in green colors.. but I add Passage to pass-out that problem :-). Here is the list:


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 26 Creature
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Noble Hierarch
    2 Lotus Cobra
    4 Tireless Tracker
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Renegade Rallier
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Veteran Explorer
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Sylvan Safekeeper
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

    // 4 Instant
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    // 23 Land
    1 Gaea's Cradle
    1 Plains
    1 Swamp
    2 Forest
    4 Wasteland
    1 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    2 Savannah
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Marsh Flats
    4 Windswept Heath
    1 Karakas
    1 Ghost Quarter

    // 7 Sorcery
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Cabal Therapy


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 1 Creature
    SB: 1 Reclamation Sage

    // 6 Instant
    SB: 1 Crop Rotation
    SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
    SB: 1 Blessed Alliance

    // 2 Land
    SB: 1 Rogue's Passage
    SB: 1 Bojuka Bog

    // 3 Planeswalker
    SB: 2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    SB: 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

    // 3 Sorcery
    SB: 3 Thoughtseize


    I mostly focused on landfall engine and land recursion based: Veteran Explorer / Lotus Cobra / Renegade Railler / Knight of the Reliquary / Tireless Tracker / Titania, Protector of Argoth as finisher. Actually Failed due to too few removal MD.

    Added also my favorite disruption to make useful from Railler and Dryad - Cabal Therapy. It's little nobo with Thalia..

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    The big thing in favor of cradle to me is that it let's you do the equipment thing quicker, and it let's you get aggressive with Knight finding wasteland but cradle still let's you cast things while you turn all of your other lands into stone rains
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  10. #530
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    Unfortunately there is no replacement for Cradle, that's the reason why it's so expensive :-). It gives additional routes with KotR and explosive turn 2-3 if drawn.

    I was little inspired by Lavafrogg and try to assamble SFM-less Maverick with huge CA. It's probably won't be competitive until Wizards print answer to TNN in green colors.. but I add Passage to pass-out that problem :-). Here is the list:


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 26 Creature
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Noble Hierarch
    2 Lotus Cobra
    4 Tireless Tracker
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Renegade Rallier
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Veteran Explorer
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Sylvan Safekeeper
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

    // 4 Instant
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    // 23 Land
    1 Gaea's Cradle
    1 Plains
    1 Swamp
    2 Forest
    4 Wasteland
    1 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    2 Savannah
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Marsh Flats
    4 Windswept Heath
    1 Karakas
    1 Ghost Quarter

    // 7 Sorcery
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Cabal Therapy


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 1 Creature
    SB: 1 Reclamation Sage

    // 6 Instant
    SB: 1 Crop Rotation
    SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
    SB: 1 Blessed Alliance

    // 2 Land
    SB: 1 Rogue's Passage
    SB: 1 Bojuka Bog

    // 3 Planeswalker
    SB: 2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    SB: 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

    // 3 Sorcery
    SB: 3 Thoughtseize


    I mostly focused on landfall engine and land recursion based: Veteran Explorer / Lotus Cobra / Renegade Railler / Knight of the Reliquary / Tireless Tracker / Titania, Protector of Argoth as finisher. Actually Failed due to too few removal MD.

    Added also my favorite disruption to make useful from Railler and Dryad - Cabal Therapy. It's little nobo with Thalia..
    Equipment doubling as removal is one of the problems of cutting SFM. I feel like MoR would have made it less of an issue, why did you cut Mom?

    I also would stay with he full 4 DRS before any other mana dorks, dude is good.

    I love the Tracker/Rallier plan, I am just not sure how to make it viable. I think a deck with 4 crop rotations would work, but that is a little far from Maverick.

    No love for Scryb Ranger?
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  11. #531
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    I was little inspired by Lavafrogg and try to assamble SFM-less Maverick with huge CA. It's probably won't be competitive until Wizards print answer to TNN in green colors.. but I add Passage to pass-out that problem :-).
    In my experience, Titania can make TNN look quite silly. So there is that too.

    I mostly focused on landfall engine and land recursion based: Veteran Explorer / Lotus Cobra / Renegade Railler / Knight of the Reliquary / Tireless Tracker / Titania, Protector of Argoth as finisher. Actually Failed due to too few removal MD.

    Added also my favorite disruption to make useful from Railler and Dryad - Cabal Therapy. It's little nobo with Thalia..
    Actually I've thought many times of how to make a low-CMC Nic Fit deck that has a sb-transformation plan into Maverick, but never figured out exactly how or why to do it. ;) Like, I don't want maindeck Cabal Therapies in Maverick, and in Nic Fit I don't want too many Wastelands, not that that is a big problem (they still tap for mana). After a very quick look, just to provide any feedback at all, I would move Veteran and Therapies to the board, skip Thoughtseizes in the board (you have hatebears and therapies, no need to play more interaction with combo than either Nic Fit or Maverick does separately), and like you say, bring in more removal maindeck. Probably 2 Decay. The Cobras seem unnecessary, and with the Ralliers there is so much ramp in the deck... You don't need all that ramp, better to be able to interact. A main advantage of Nic Fit is having access to Pernicious Deed, and you don't have that here so maybe add one copy or two to the board.

  12. #532
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I really like the Lotus Cobra/Rallier/Tracker engine, we just need something really good to ramp into. It might be worth exploring further as I still haven’t found a good alternative to SFM and equipment against fair or unfair decks.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  13. #533

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    I really like the Lotus Cobra/Rallier/Tracker engine, we just need something really good to ramp into. It might be worth exploring further as I still haven’t found a good alternative to SFM and equipment against fair or unfair decks.
    What about walking ballista? It's a mana sink and can provide good offence as well as defence

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Equipment doubling as removal is one of the problems of cutting SFM. I feel like MoR would have made it less of an issue, why did you cut Mom?

    I also would stay with he full 4 DRS before any other mana dorks, dude is good.

    I love the Tracker/Rallier plan, I am just not sure how to make it viable. I think a deck with 4 crop rotations would work, but that is a little far from Maverick.

    No love for Scryb Ranger?
    MoR, Ooze, Scryb, which I missed most and probably bring back was to make room for new toys.

    I like idea for Nic Fit package on sb vet plus cabals on sb. And bringing back Scryb and more Mana dorks from maverick. Deed is nobo this deck boardpresent a lot. We also don't need any more bombs then Titania. Tracker is enough Mana sink.

  15. #535
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Would post more but on a bad stretch.

    After a 15-2 run I have gone 2-5 in my last 2 this week.

    The wife is 6-2 with elves in the same span so that is a positive.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  16. #536

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Would post more but on a bad stretch.

    After a 15-2 run I have gone 2-5 in my last 2 this week.

    The wife is 6-2 with elves in the same span so that is a positive.
    Has the meta game been roughly the same since your 15-2 run?

  17. #537
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Valleysdai View Post
    Has the meta game been roughly the same since your 15-2 run?
    No, that’s pretty much the issue.

    I was beating Delver, Aluren, Depths, BUG.dec and Eldrazi.

    I lost to Junk, NicFit, the mirror, elves and a black white homebrew with maindeck deluge and gloom!

    My list is tuned for the blue decks in the world....
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  18. #538

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    No, that’s pretty much the issue.

    I was beating Delver, Aluren, Depths, BUG.dec and Eldrazi.

    I lost to Junk, NicFit, the mirror, elves and a black white homebrew with maindeck deluge and gloom!

    My list is tuned for the blue decks in the world....
    Are you thinking of any changes to adjust to this new meta? It may be worth having more creature hate main.

    What were your wins against?

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Returning after a long hiatus. Haven’t sleeved up MAV since around the time Renegade Rallier was coming out. I’m looking for a standard “stock” list to start with. I know the deck can be customized a lot for player preference but is the standard shell still the same? DRS, Kotr, Mom, Thalia, hate ish bears (Teeg, Qasali, Scooze, Scryb, etc).

    Is Punishing Maverick better positioned well? I’m seeing more Lands Tubro Depths in-line, so I’m thinking Abzan straightforward is best. Didn’t know if any crazy new tech has come up in the last ~5-6 sets or so.

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Valleysdai View Post
    Are you thinking of any changes to adjust to this new meta? It may be worth having more creature hate main.

    What were your wins against?
    I don’t think it is a new meta, just a bad run. I beat Eldrazi and Miracles, so my list is doing what it is supposed to do. It is just really hard to play at all ends of the spectrum.

    I imagine if I was going to play at the same place against the same decks, I would just pickup Punishing Mav or Loam to go over the top of the grind with fires.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

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