DRS is integral at this point in the meta. It helps you to not get completely stonewalled by a true name, it helps out against the unfair decks (some percentage points is better than none), and it helps you n the DRS mirror in the mana denial plan by allowing you to deny their DRS mana with your own. A trick I have used many times to great success
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Strongly agree with everything what you said !
Maverick need good GSZable CMC 2 drop with good etb effect. We can't gain EtB value from GSZ with CMC2. We can only use tricks like Scryb, or a beater with build in grave hate (Ooze) or Gaddock block.
That would be probably broken. Maybe some effect like "tap target permanent and doesn't untap in next untap phase, if it's black destroy it instead" would be enough, body 2/1.
I don’t think a GW 2/3 that fought a creature would be broken.
Baleful strix draws a card and trades in combat.
SFM is a card advantage tutor.
The point would be that it is specific to GW decks and gives us advantage from the 2cc slot. It is a GW hatebear against other small creatures/hate bears.
What about GW 2/2 with a 1/1 token that can be removed to ping? Make it legendary to boot!
That is the type of card we need. We need an actual reason, in addition to Knight, to stay GW and wreck.
That being said...
I am currently on a new list that is straight GW with Cradle and both Sigarda and Batterskull as mana dumps. They are both pretty cool and amazing when you have a small knight.
So far I have had a turn 3 Sigarda and I have played SFM for jitte, played jitte, knight into Cradle to pay for spell pierce, equip jitte and swing to ace a pyromancer.
City champs is on Sunday and I should be able to play!
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Strix is far beyond power creep edge, it shouldn't have flying or dt (just look at old one which didn't draw card which is enough for 2 mana - via elvish visionary)
SFM is also on edge which blocks equipment developing (you can't now print some good living weapon and/or overcosted equipment cost because of that little kor girl)
Those cards are for sure on power creep, and dangerous for format, same is true for Leovold, TNN, Griselbrand and.. Shaman. They are strict wrong and overpowered since release - for compare - good design is for example Snapcaster, Pyromancer, Mentor, Ooze, Railler, Tracker or Knight.
Wish you good luck on Sunday - not sure that 2 Bombs are good in MD, maybe some of keep in SB.
If only strix was GG with reach and deathtouch...
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Rallier should just be a GW snapcaster for permanents, without revolt. Tracker is pretty amazing but still doesn't make the cut... Excavator is the best recent card in my opinion, and that still suffers from a direct counter in DRS.
The format is full of overpowered and unfair things, we just need something on the same power level as the rest of the format.
The batterskull and sigarda give the deck something that is "almost" unbeatable in most, non-combo, situations. They both make their respective tutors relevant throughout the game as SFM+Batterskull is a true late game threat while SFM still has early game relevance.
The fact that either can be dumped onto the board at as soon as turn 3 is a big deal as well as most decks do not have answers to one if not both while still keeping the rest of our deck in check.
Current list for this weekend:
Land (24)
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
Creature (25)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Artifact (3)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
Instant (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (4)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Sideboard (15)
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Choke
2 Sanctum Prelate/Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
The sideboard is awesome and the only thing I really want main board is an additional Pridemage. I still feel the Maze+Cradle give a lot more flexibility and power in matchups over the combo and the Cradle is a truly dumb and broken card.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I like your list! How do you feel about the 4 Stonforge + 3 Equipment package?
And no love for Sylvan Library? That card has been amazing for me.
I don't like two things:
- list is very soft to 4c Control (aka Czech Pile), mostly you have no good thread until 5 mana (Sigarda) since they handle equips really fast with K.Commands.
- it doesn't run Sylvan Library and is quite soft on mana sources with two big 5 cmc threads (if you miss land drop in turn 3-4 you never card those cards in world of Push/Bolt/Snapcaster):
compared to other lists: only 4 mana dorks vs 5 in most lists running
only 21 lands (don't count cradle or dryad arbor in matchups against controls), don't know what is your play style maybe you don't use wastelands in this matchups as stone rains (without wastelands its only 17 lands). Little few for your two bombs.
How many times you face situation with skull/sigarda on hand and no mana for them ?
How many 4c Control or Miracles in your meta ?
List is very strong vs fair matchups without artifact removals (full SFM package and Sigarda, Cradle with skull MD).
I love Sylvan Library and have played a ton of Junk lists with 2-3 Library to keep up with blue(it will work one day), but I enjoy the aggro options much more.
Having relevant SFM's the entire game is super cool as SFm+Batterskull is always a pain in the ass to deal with.
I have found that the list has better game against most of the DTB as early SFM's are real threats to most of the format.
City Champs are tomorrow and I will let you know how it is going.
The land and 4 vs 5 mana dorks issue has not been a problem for me thus far.... I pretty much always hated the 5th dork.
The main problem with Sigarda is that Baleful Strix is a real card right now... Excavator is the backup right now.... maybe Thrun.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I love Library too. It's not as good as it used to be, though, with all the 4c Pile / Goodstuff decks running around as Leovold shuts down Library. Have always wondered about running a second (1 MD / 1 SB) like the list that finished 2nd in the recent SCG Classic.
Also down on Sigarda due to Baleful Strix being everywhere. But Thrun is a good idea. Thrun with Karakas backup seems really hard for any fair deck to beat, honestly. If only he had some form of evasion it would be a no-brainer.
Personally I think any Maverick list without Excavator is totally wrong. At worst it's a creature that provides some immediate value. But it's often just a free win as a tutorable Wasteland + Crucible lock.
For a long time I only ran 4 mana creatures. I know most lists run 5, but I think 4 is totally fine if your curve tops out at 3 (and max of 5-6 total 3-drops). GSZ into Arbor is basically mana dork #5 anyway.
In what matchups does excavator help in which you were not already ahead? I understand that she shuts the door and locks out decks that are susceptible to wastelocks and she also has minimal value against the current boogeyman of the format.
Also asking: how does your match against Pile usually go?
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
It has applications beyond just locking an opponent out of the game with Wasteland. I've extended games I otherwise would have lost by infinitely recurring Dryad Arbor to chump block a Gurmag Angler until I could draw what I needed to win. I've overwhelmed Miracles with card advantage by recurring Horizon Canopy after they spent their StP's going after Teeg and Leovold and Knight. In situations where I'm facing an opposing DRS I've been able to deny the opponent mana by emptying my graveyard of lands. I've re-bought the Stage/Depths combo to win an otherwise unwinnable game. Just replaying a fetch from the graveyard is basically equivalent to drawing a card, and I don't think anyone playing the deck would argue with the addition of some card advantage.
Regarding Pile: I find the matchup depends on the build I'm facing. As Pile got progressively greedier I think the matchup improved by focusing on the mana denial plan (prioritize killing DRS, stick a Thalia, cut them off a color) and prioritizing sticking non-creature permanents (mainly Choke and Sylvan Library). At one point I think I beat Noah Walker like 4 consecutive times last year when he was still running Pile at SCG and TJ events. Excavator incidentally plays really well into that game plan.
However, more recently the matchup has gotten difficult. These days most lists are running 2 basics and the matchup is WAY harder if they have a few basics and are able to keep a DRS in play. Even if you land a choke, most lists even have a Badlands and Bayou so it isn't an instant win. I'd say we're currently the underdog against Pile.
If your goal is to beat Pile, I'd recommend going for Punishing Maverick. I feel really favored when I've played Punishing vs Pile. If you are smart and don't let your P-fires get exiled and play around Surgical post-board you just inexorably grind them out.
Thank you for the response. I see you are playing 4c with Leovold(3.5 color?) and I imagine that I am playing a more aggressive 2 color mainboard with black for the SB only.
One of the big reasons that I like Sigarda is that they have to have strix once she is on the board. Strix is easily handled in most circumstances ie an active Jitte/Sword, a plow, Mom etc and she also is untouchable in any non-strix is a pain for Miracles to deal with as she can be Zenithed for again post Terminus.
All of these scenarios are hypohetical and variable in this situation anyway. I am currently testing and loving the Sigarda in the randomness that is the legacy format and Excavator is a very good card that deserves consideration. (It was a page or two ago where I suggested that Tracker/Excavator/Rotation should replace knight in the near future)
Also: I have payed Punishing Maverick and Aggro Loam, the fires are good, but I prefer the 4x Thalia against the field as well as arguably agains Pile.
Last edited by lavafrogg; 04-17-2018 at 04:28 AM.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I really like Titania, Protector of Argoth in this sort of deck. As a finisher, it can easily close a game out, and it generates value even if the opponent can deal with it immediately. If the opponent cannot deal with it right away, you just bury them. It has so much synergy with Knight, Excavator, and Sylvan Safekeeper.
Is there any reason people aren't playing this card that I am not aware of?
So I didn't play Titania for a while, since I tested some different builds and didn't play that much Maverick lately. However, I've been playing Titania in Maverick about since she was released and I also like her a lot. I bring it up here once every couple of months when people start discussing 4- and 5-drops. I think usually it comes up that people worry that it will die to a Lightning Bolt. Also it requires a Gaea's Cradle, but that should be available for most Maverick players anyway. I'm guessing people just don't try it and don't realize how good it is. Another thing is of course that being a 5-drop comes with some cost, it's harder to play so in some games it will be stuck in your hand doing nothing. Lists with a mana curve stopping at 3 were doing quite well about a year ago so maybe the 5-drop seemed unnecessary (they probably still do, even if planeswalkers seem even better now than then, but it was very apparent at the time).
I think Ramunap Excavator changes that dynamic though. It makes sense to stop at 3cc thteats when you intend to consume your land drops with Knight to Wasteland the opponent multiple times. However, between the mana dorks and a Crucible with legs, casting a 5cc threat (or GSZ for 6) doesn't seem unreasonable anymore, and we're only talking about a 1-of finisher here. It's obviously overkill against a deck like Grixis Delver, but it seems incredibly powerful against all of the midrange decks.
The Lightning Bolt argument is legit, but if you suspect a Bolt, then you wait to set it up better, i.e an active Mom or Knight, an extra fetchland on the table, etc.
Sigarda dodges Bolt, but can't swing past a Baleful Strix.
Making any army of 5/3 tokens is just so powerful and easy to do with this deck, though...
I think I've been casting Titania reliably without Ramunap Excavator, but you are right, Excavator makes it easier to hit 5 mana in a game.
I wouldn't say that Titania is overkill vs Grixis Delver. They go for Pyromancer going wide or TNN and you can't always race that, a Titania races all of these very well. But I sure agree that she is even better vs the midrange decks.
I don't personally care much about the Lightning Bolt argument, I don't remember having ever had Titania Lightning Bolted, buuut maybe I just forget. There's always a Mother or Knight around, or they were around and were bolted. There are many must-bolts in this deck.The Lightning Bolt argument is legit, but if you suspect a Bolt, then you wait to set it up better, i.e an active Mom or Knight, an extra fetchland on the table, etc.
Yeah, I fully agree with the undesirable Sigarda vs Strix battle, and your opinion of Titania.Sigarda dodges Bolt, but can't swing past a Baleful Strix.
Making any army of 5/3 tokens is just so powerful and easy to do with this deck, though...
Oh, did I forgot something, there is also the issue of choosing Depths over Titania (or Sigarda). An advantage of Depths is that you can resolve it with less exposure on the stack (to counterspells, I mean).
One more thing, I'm just presenting my opinion, most others here seem to be of other opinions. :)
All of what you say about Excavator is exactly right. The snake is extremely versatile and has a great many applications during a game - even when you are far behind and it seems especially in grindy mid-range mirrors.
To illustrate: Last night I had a game where I was dead in the next turn to two flipped Delvers and a summoning-sick Lavamancer (w/ one Volc to activate). I had an active KotR, a freshly played Excavator, two irrelevant creatures, and two lands. My hand was Heath and a Second KotR and I was at four life.
The Excavator let me replay Wasteland to get my opponent off Lavamancer and keep my KotR untapped to grab Maze of Ith and continue playing at one life. I was still beyond fucked at this point and needed to draw STP or Jitte to survive through the next turn and potentially cobble together a win. Jitte was better for obvious reasons, but also needed two additional lands to be useful (I don’t have Cradle online). This was a problem because you can’t draw multiple cards in a turn under normal circumstance… Except I could replay a land with Excavator, giving me exactly enough land with a KotR activation to stay alive and potentially steal a win.
I happened to draw the Jitte, replayed a land from the yard, fetched a land with KotR, equipped Jitte to my now relevant Teeg-father, swung, got counters, killed one Delver (next turn after waiting for opponent to attack), and went on to win the game by accruing Jitte counters and killing my opponent’s creatures/gaining life.
Excavator did three very important things in this match: (1) let me Wasteland without activating my woefully overburdened KotR allowing KotR to do something else; (2) let me “draw” two cards in a turn - my normal top deck and a land from the yard; and, (3), let me ramp and fix in the late game while operating as a (albeit limited) card advantage and card selection engine (drawing a land of my choice/the exact right land every turn in addition to my normal draw). So good, so choice.
I don’t think there was any other combination of cards that would have won this game barring some major misplays by my opponent. While this is a special case where the sequence of the game lined up perfectly for Excavator to shine, any of the possible modes are good in a game of slight margins.
Mom-mom had to die because of the ground chemicals. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10272003
From the discussion last week about cards we need: holy shit are all of the “fight another creature” cards overcosted.
In my search I decided that a 5/5 for 2GG that activates to fight would be perfect but omg hold limited crap.
There is a kicker one in the new set that would cost 4GGG to fight something on cast and a legendary that would get monstrous and fight.
Come on blizz.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Not quite a fight card, but what about Polukranos?
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=373549
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