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Thread: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

  1. #601

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    The combo gives us a chance in games we were not supposed to win.
    I can attest to this, the DD combo can win out of nowhere too, I managed to pull off a sick interaction between crop rotation, lotus cobra and the DD combo against elves.

    I have new Thalia, cobra, dryad arbor and 2 other lands in play.

    They cast a tapped hoof and swung with their other creatures for 10, I'm on 16.

    Before blocks I count my mana (several times) to make sure I have enough and do the following:

    Tap dryad arbor and a wasteland for mana, sac the wasteland to crop rotation, get stage and add green from cobra, tap another land and sac it to a 2nd crop rotation. Get depths add a green and use the floating to make Marit Lage and win on the crackback.


    I am a great believer in the stage combo, it has caused me to win so many games when I was playing UG cloudpost it's insane.

  2. #602

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Hello everyone, I want to build Mavrick but I'm not sure what version of the deck i want to focus on. what you all think of the punishing fire version compared to the popular GWb build?


    thanks

  3. #603

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by IanCHarding View Post
    Hello everyone, I want to build Mavrick but I'm not sure what version of the deck i want to focus on. what you all think of the punishing fire version compared to the popular GWb build?


    thanks
    Punishing has a better matchup into control decks (Delver variants, Czech Pile, etc) or any grindy matchup since they tend to be heavily advantage-based and having a recurrable way to kill deathrites is super nice. GWb tends to be better against combo decks since you get to run Thalia maindeck and targeted discard.

    sort of depends on what your local meta looks like, but either choice is fine. I've been on Punishing for a while but that doesn't mean much since I don't really get to play often. However I will say that out of all the variants I've played (straight GW, GWb, Punishing) I've probably enjoyed Punishing the most since Grove and Pfire make grindy matchups where I have to kill a bunch of strix/deathrites/whatever a lot less stressful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    The combo gives us a chance in games we were not supposed to win.
    The amount of undeserved wins I've gotten off of stage/depths is absurd.
    That being said it can be easy to tunnel vision to lage without realizing it. Can be sort of tricky to differentiate between the times its winmoar and when you really do have to go for it early to close out a game.

  4. #604
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I'm still super hyped on a straight GW list with 4/3 Thalia/Big Thalia as major disruption cards. I don't think DD or punishing fires help you in anything but the long/grindy game, when you can win early a lot easier with Maverick... which is at its core an aggro deck.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  5. #605

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    I'm still super hyped on a straight GW list with 4/3 Thalia/Big Thalia as major disruption cards. I don't think DD or punishing fires help you in anything but the long/grindy game, when you can win early a lot easier with Maverick... which is at its core an aggro deck.
    I have found that the synergy with cobra and crop rotation makes the DD package a lot more aggro.

  6. #606

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    I'm still super hyped on a straight GW list with 4/3 Thalia/Big Thalia as major disruption cards. I don't think DD or punishing fires help you in anything but the long/grindy game, when you can win early a lot easier with Maverick... which is at its core an aggro deck.
    Decks like Grixis, Miracles, Czech Pile, etc. are going to force you to play the grindy game whether you like it or not

  7. #607
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    I'm still super hyped on a straight GW list with 4/3 Thalia/Big Thalia as major disruption cards. I don't think DD or punishing fires help you in anything but the long/grindy game, when you can win early a lot easier with Maverick... which is at its core an aggro deck.
    Maverick is as much an aggro deck as Death and Taxes: that is, not at all. Winning with creatures an aggro deck does not make.

    Eldrazi Stompy is aggro, Merfolk is aggro, Burn (in its current iteration) is aggro. Grixis and RUG Delver are aggro compared to Maverick. Even combo decks have to race your prison elements before they come down.

    Miracles is one of the few match-ups where Maverick actually assumes an aggressive role. Trying to grind that match out is a mistake, as they'll inevitably grind better than you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  8. #608
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by bakofried View Post
    Maverick is as much an aggro deck as Death and Taxes: that is, not at all. Winning with creatures an aggro deck does not make.

    Eldrazi Stompy is aggro, Merfolk is aggro, Burn (in its current iteration) is aggro. Grixis and RUG Delver are aggro compared to Maverick. Even combo decks have to race your prison elements before they come down.

    Miracles is one of the few match-ups where Maverick actually assumes an aggressive role. Trying to grind that match out is a mistake, as they'll inevitably grind better than you.
    I completely disagree.

    We do not have the Prison elements of DnT. The fact that we can play a little control/prison against the decks that are faster than us is a testimite to the strength of Thalia and Knight. That doesn’t change the fact that in a perfect world we play a turn 2 knight and beat the hell out of the opponent with it.

    Most of the time we are playing outlets 1 of silver bullet and hoping we can get there before the opponent finds the answer and kills us.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  9. #609
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Knight is absolutely a lock piece. The default is Knight->chain Wastelands->kill once they can't deploy threats. That may play out differently depending on the board state, but frankly, Knight often isn't a great beater in a world filled with Deathrites.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  10. #610

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    That doesn’t change the fact that in a perfect world we play a turn 2 knight and beat the hell out of the opponent with it.
    In a perfect world DRS isn't the fourth most played card in the format.

    The best part of Knight is its utility. If it weren't for that we'd just play Goyfs at which point we might as well just play Zoo

  11. #611

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by bakofried View Post
    Knight is absolutely a lock piece. The default is Knight->chain Wastelands->kill once they can't deploy threats. That may play out differently depending on the board state, but frankly, Knight often isn't a great beater in a world filled with Deathrites.
    Also with knight once we have one active against lands we are in the dominant position, only when we get a second active knight can we start beating in with one.

  12. #612
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by SellaNona View Post
    In a perfect world DRS isn't the fourth most played card in the format.

    The best part of Knight is its utility. If it weren't for that we'd just play Goyfs at which point we might as well just play Zoo
    Mav doesn’t play goyfs because the deck doesn’t put anything except lands in the graveyard.

    Maverick is first and foremost an aggressive deck. It could be classified as a midrange deck but the main game plan is to protect a bomb long enough to win the game.

    The bomb can be a knight, a teeg, a scooze, SFM, whatever, but the deck is not looking to take games late and lock players down ie DnT or Czech/Miracles.

    That being said: you can play the deck however you want and build it shifted either more aggressive or more controlling. If I was playing a more controlling list I would be in an sdematt GSZ rock/junk list with Liliana. Since I think that deck is not well positioned right now I have been going more aggressive with big Thalia and only an excavator as a late game value engine.

    I am 16-2 against blue.dec with this configuration with 1 loss being to miracles and the other being a god draw Delver.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  13. #613
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    I am 16-2 against blue.dec with this configuration with 1 loss being to miracles and the other being a god draw Delver.
    Care to share an updated list? Big Thalia seems better with more DD combo around.

  14. #614
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by oSeabass View Post
    Care to share an updated list? Big Thalia seems better with more DD combo around.

    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Thalia Guardian of Thraben
    3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    2 SFM

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Ranumap Excavator
    1 Dryad Arbor

    4 Green Sun’s Zenith
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Wasteland
    2 Savannah
    1 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    2 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Gaea’s Cradle
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas

    Sideboard
    3 Thoughtsieze
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Bitterblossom
    1 Choke
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Tireless Tracker

    It has very good game against a lot of problem matchups where they cannot be allowed to free-roll. Fetchlands are a major pain against Thalia and and she can buy valuable time against most matchups.

    Having 2 first strikers is huge against all of the baleful strix around as you can attack through anything Czech has and have Karakas protection for both of them against spot removal.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    It has very good game against a lot of problem matchups where they cannot be allowed to free-roll. Fetchlands are a major pain against Thalia and and she can buy valuable time against most matchups.

    Having 2 first strikers is huge against all of the baleful strix around as you can attack through anything Czech has and have Karakas protection for both of them against spot removal.
    Looks a lot more like the traditional older GW lists I used to run, just with the black splash for DRS and sideboard stuff. The one thing I question is the Bitterblossom in the board. How well has that worked, what do you bring it in against? Miracles? Grindy matchups?

  16. #616
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by oSeabass View Post
    Looks a lot more like the traditional older GW lists I used to run, just with the black splash for DRS and sideboard stuff. The one thing I question is the Bitterblossom in the board. How well has that worked, what do you bring it in against? Miracles? Grindy matchups?
    The Bitterblossom is a new addition from playing Depths.

    It gives me 2 very impactful enchantments out of the board in Grindy matchups especially where decays will be taxed and judgements can’t hit everything. I really enjoy forcing decks to have a variety of answers to all of my cards. Bitterblossom is just amazing in the Miracles matchup and helps make terminus not a big deal.

    I love the straight GW feel because legacy is currently very combo heavy and you need a way to slow down the combo decks while still punishing the 4c manabases. Getting 1-2 turns off of combo while swinging for 5 with both Thalia’s is all you can ask for, especially with seize out of the board.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  17. #617

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    What are your tips and tricks when you are playing against miracles? Whenever I play against them they always seem to have the answers and stall out long enough to win.

  18. #618

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    What are the matchups for Gideon, AOZ and is Bitterblossom just better in the same spot?

    I assume any grindy deck like 4c Czech, Punishing Dack, and Miracles. 4 mana is probably too much for Delver but the lifeloss from Blossom is probably bad as well vs them.

    I just see Gideon is fairly standard at this point and not sure why Bitterblossom isn't.

  19. #619
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by delfam View Post
    I just see Gideon is fairly standard at this point and not sure why Bitterblossom isn't.
    Ive been using Bitterblossom in the sb for the past 3 years, sometimes, even maindecked occasionally, and I think it got better over the past 12 months. It's individual, I'd say, if it's played or not over a planeswalker. Planeswalkers seem to be more popular for sure, but I'm not sure why.

  20. #620
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I made Top8 at the the Giga-Bites Legacy Quarterly over the weekend. List:

    Creature Spells (21)
    4x Mother of Runes
    3x Noble Hierarch
    1x Birds of Paradise
    3x Stoneforge Mystic
    2x Qasali Pridemage
    2x Scavenging Ooze
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    1x Scryb Ranger
    4x Knight of the Reliquary

    Noncreature Spells (15)
    4x Green Sun's Zenith
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    4x Punishing Fire
    1x Sylvan Library
    1x Umezawa's Jitte
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    1x Batterskull

    Lands (23)
    4x Windswept Heath
    3x Wooded Foothills
    2x Savannah
    2x Taiga
    1x Plateau
    1x Forest
    1x Plains
    1x Dryad Arbor
    3x Grove of the Burnwillows
    1x Karakas
    3x Wasteland
    1x Horizon Canopy

    SB: 2x Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2x Choke
    SB: 2x Crop Rotation
    SB: 2x Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 1x Bojuka Bog
    SB: 1x Reclamation Sage
    SB: 1x Voice of Resurgence
    SB: 1x Gaddock Teeg
    SB: 1x Wear / Tear
    SB: 1x Phyrexian Revoker
    SB: 1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant


    There were 91 players so 7 rounds of swiss. Here's how my matches went:

    Round 1: Oops, All Spells! (W 2-1)
    Round 2: BUG Control (W 2-1)
    Round 3: Grixis Delver (W 2-1)
    Round 4: Czech Pile (W 2-0)
    Round 5: MUD Post (W 2-0)
    Round 6: ID
    Round 7: ID
    Quarterfinal: Czech Pile (L 0-2)


    Both games of the QF were winnable had I played better, but oh well.
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderPreaux View Post
    Gronder sounds like a dating app for people who play Knight of the Reliquary.

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