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Thread: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

  1. #641

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I'm excited to bust out more exalted beats. I'm not excited about shelling out $600+ on 3 more judge nobles :(. I think I'm gonna still try Runic Armasaur when it comes out even though DRS is gone to give us cards, as a 2/5 is really nice stats esp against all the bolts I think we'll see.

    I played a Cavern before DRS but now that I'm playing Dark Depths I'm not sure I have the space to put it back in, this was also probably back when I had 1 Linvala main and 1 SB to beat the mirror match. Ah the good ol' days.

  2. #642
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Hey guys,
    as a BUG player I´m really sad that Shaman got banned because I really liked the deck but at the same time I´m really glad about the fresh wind which goes threw Legacy now. I also really do believe that Maverick can be a good deck again. I played GW Maverick and Punishing Maverick back in the days over 3 years in a row and had a great time in the past but then everything changed with Shamand/AD and so on...

    I really want to try these classic GW list back again:

    26 Creatures
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Gaddock Teeg


    11 Spells
    4 Green Suns Zenith
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawas Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    23 Lands
    4 Savannah
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Wooded Foothills
    4 Wasteland
    2 Cavern of Souls
    2 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Karakas
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Maze of Ith


    Sideboard:
    4 Surgical Extraction
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    2 Sylvan Library
    2 Choke
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Ramunap Excavator

    I think that at least for the first couple of months that BR Reanimator, DnT, RUG/UR Delver and Lands will get a boost and see more play. Maverick is quite good placed in such a metagame I think.

    The Sideboard is of course not set in stone because it depends what you wanna fight, control, combo or other creature based MU´s but I think that UW Miracles and some kind of Grixis Control will be widely played in the near future so the package of 2 Gideon 2 Library 2 Choke should be fine then.

    I really wanna play the Ramunap Excavator in the MD but I cant find a slot for it. I know many people play 1 Pridemage + 1 Scavenging Ooze and if I would cut the 2nd copie I would have enought space for the snake but I really liked the 2/2 split back in the past because with two copies you naturally draw one from time to time and I dont have to zenith them into play all the time. Especially vs the popular DnT its good to have a 2nd Pridemage or draw him nautrally. Ooze is really important in the opener if you face Reanimator/Lands/Dredge with T1 Land+Noble/Zenith into Arbor and T2 Land+Oooze -> Snag something right now...

    Greetings Franz
    Last edited by Manipulato; 07-03-2018 at 06:30 AM.
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  3. #643

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I've been on Stage + Depths but we'll be seeing less slow piles that can't beat a Marit Lage and more Wasteland so I think I'm gonna drop it for just another land (fetch) and a spell, just make my deck slightly more consistent as people try to attack it's mana base. Speaking of attacking, I wanna try Thalia build. Heretic Cathar seems better now that less people have a mana dork and 3 power first strike is great and beats really hard with hierarchs that we have more of now.

    9 Fetch
    2 Savannah
    1 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    2 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    1 Dryad Arbor
    4 Wasteland
    -23-

    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sylvan Library (maybe 2nd pridemage over this and go full aggro exalted lol jk)
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    -11-

    4 Noble Hierarch
    1 Birds of Paradise
    4 Mother of Runes
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Stoneforge Mystic (should prolly just play the 2 again but it's so slow)
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    -26-

    2 Choke
    2 Canonist
    2 Decay
    2 Zealous
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Surgical
    -15-

  4. #644

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I'm predicting that there's going to be more miracles decks running about, any of you making changes for that matchup?

  5. #645
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    DRS was one of the best cards against miracles.... this matchup ist just soooo BAD!
    first idea... more Planeswalkers, more teegs/sanctum prelate - more LUCK

  6. #646

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Skizz View Post
    DRS was one of the best cards against miracles.... this matchup ist just soooo BAD!
    first idea... more Planeswalkers, more teegs/sanctum prelate - more LUCK
    Yikes, I know that elves sometimes play Nissa, could it be worth running a PW (or any non creature) that attacks them from a different angle?

  7. #647

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Valleysdai View Post
    Yikes, I know that elves sometimes play Nissa, could it be worth running a PW (or any non creature) that attacks them from a different angle?
    Running PW in the main is a fine idea. I've played Elspeth, Knight Errant and Garruk Relentless pretty extensively in the past in place of SFM. Garruk beats Jace's face in all day and you get to keep pumping out the pups. It's also important to have two Choke in the sideboard for the match up.
    Mom-mom had to die because of the ground chemicals. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10272003

  8. #648

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Skizz View Post
    DRS was one of the best cards against miracles.... this matchup ist just soooo BAD!
    first idea... more Planeswalkers, more teegs/sanctum prelate - more LUCK
    More Punishing Fire.
    Mom-mom had to die because of the ground chemicals. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10272003

  9. #649

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    For Planeswalkers, Gideon AoZ has been a solid choice for me. A spicy option i love is Kaya, Ghost Assassin. She was a czech pile killer, but solid in any attrition matchup with her -2 draw, they discard. She's super fun and flavorful, and actually over performs most of the time. Her 0 mode on merit lage is so fun too.

  10. #650
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Skizz View Post
    DRS was one of the best cards against miracles.... this matchup ist just soooo BAD!
    first idea... more Planeswalkers, more teegs/sanctum prelate - more LUCK
    As metion before - Punishing Fire is fine same true for pyroblasts, walkers and Choke which is probably best until they have answers.

    As for Walkers - Nissa is very good since you can use it to kill opponent Jace for example they EoT terminus, then slam Jace tapping out and they think they're save. Nissa will prove they're far from save :-) - land 5/5 which can attack Jace..

    Gaddock route isnt so great as before - Council Judgement is real deal and they pack more and more of them.

  11. #651

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    As metion before - Punishing Fire is fine same true for pyroblasts, walkers and Choke which is probably best until they have answers.

    As for Walkers - Nissa is very good since you can use it to kill opponent Jace for example they EoT terminus, then slam Jace tapping out and they think they're save. Nissa will prove they're far from save :-) - land 5/5 which can attack Jace..

    Gaddock route isnt so great as before - Council Judgement is real deal and they pack more and more of them.
    I suspect a version of Punishing Maverick with planeswalkers will probably be the safest bet in general but especially RE the Miracles question. As the primer states: "Punishing Fire adds an axis of interaction to the deck that isn't creature-based. Maverick traditionally plays very much into the board, leaving it vulnerable to sweeper effects, particularly against control decks. Punishing Fire allows a Maverick strategy to pressure the opponent's life total or Planeswalkers without committing resources to the board. Its recoverability means even with no cards in hand you are able to interact, and it also requires a different kind of answer from the opposing deck than your creatures do." Terminus and Jace my ass.

    And like Fatal says, the red splash gives you mana for Pyroblasts. And you can still run most of the anti-combo, anti-control cards in the sideboard... And there's a better argument for four BoP (vs. four NH) in Pun Mav, so that should be helpful to all you budget-minded kiddos out there.
    Mom-mom had to die because of the ground chemicals. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10272003

  12. #652
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by menloe View Post
    I suspect a version of Punishing Maverick with planeswalkers will probably be the safest bet in general but especially RE the Miracles question. As the primer states: "Punishing Fire adds an axis of interaction to the deck that isn't creature-based. Maverick traditionally plays very much into the board, leaving it vulnerable to sweeper effects, particularly against control decks. Punishing Fire allows a Maverick strategy to pressure the opponent's life total or Planeswalkers without committing resources to the board. Its recoverability means even with no cards in hand you are able to interact, and it also requires a different kind of answer from the opposing deck than your creatures do." Terminus and Jace my ass.

    And like Fatal says, the red splash gives you mana for Pyroblasts. And you can still run most of the anti-combo, anti-control cards in the sideboard... And there's a better argument for four BoP (vs. four NH) in Pun Mav, so that should be helpful to all you budget-minded kiddos out there.
    I will probably try some walkers MD - mostly focused on 3CMC and 4 CMC. I think 2 walkers MD + 2-3 SB +2 Choke should be enough vs Miracles.

    Walkers tested by me:

    3CMC
    Liliana the Last Hope - a beast vs control without creatures - comes fast and quite fast ultimate. Now it will be even better

    Domri Rade - very good - similar fast like LotH - but it doesn't have good removal (fightning isn't great, and really get less loyalities when used) - advantage over Liliana you can condionally get CA - which is good, 1/3 mostly after sb since you mostly side-out some creatures and put in removal vs walkers (like pyroblasts) or enchantments like Choke.

    Liliana of the Veil - bad in Maverick - you dont want to discard cards, used only with punishing fire to be effective - to break symmetry. Just doesnt fit here.

    4CMC
    Garruk Rentless - 2/2 tokens is great vs Control also build in removal vs pesky creatures, bad vs any bolt decks

    Elspeth, Knight-Errant - enough old and good. Very slow vs Miracles, you can lost with her on table after ultimate - Terminus, StP and Council Judgment laugh on her ultimate,

    Gideon Ally of Zendikar - better then Elspeth much faster tempo since it can bump your little dudes - similar good as Garruk but without removal and doesn't die to bolt.

    Chandra, Torch of Defiance - probably best Chandra, can protect herself, growth on CA, and it isnt conditional, ultimate wins fast - probably best red walker for Maverick.

    Xenagos, the Reveler - good token producer - but it doesn't grow on it. Good advantage - tokens have haste ! Ultimate is just a CA - not always win the game. It doesn't have build in defence.

    Next to test:
    - Arlinn Kord

    5CMC

    Nissa, Vital Force - Probably best 5CMC walker in this color - it can be instant CA with build-in regrowth (picking up other walkers), it ultimate really fast and it can kill if not blocker opponent walker - what more you want ?

    Garruk, Primal Hunter - this one is probably best token producer - they're really fat - you can also try to CA - but it's risky, ultimate is a win, or opponent has terminus.

  13. #653

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post

    Next to test:
    - Arlinn Kord
    Have you thought of trying Kaya as dreadnaught suggested.

  14. #654

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    I will probably try some walkers MD - mostly focused on 3CMC and 4 CMC. I think 2 walkers MD + 2-3 SB +2 Choke should be enough vs Miracles.

    Walkers tested by me:

    3CMC
    Liliana the Last Hope - a beast vs control without creatures - comes fast and quite fast ultimate. Now it will be even better

    Domri Rade - very good - similar fast like LotH - but it doesn't have good removal (fightning isn't great, and really get less loyalities when used) - advantage over Liliana you can condionally get CA - which is good, 1/3 mostly after sb since you mostly side-out some creatures and put in removal vs walkers (like pyroblasts) or enchantments like Choke.

    Liliana of the Veil - bad in Maverick - you dont want to discard cards, used only with punishing fire to be effective - to break symmetry. Just doesnt fit here.

    4CMC
    Garruk Rentless - 2/2 tokens is great vs Control also build in removal vs pesky creatures, bad vs any bolt decks

    Elspeth, Knight-Errant - enough old and good. Very slow vs Miracles, you can lost with her on table after ultimate - Terminus, StP and Council Judgment laugh on her ultimate,

    Gideon Ally of Zendikar - better then Elspeth much faster tempo since it can bump your little dudes - similar good as Garruk but without removal and doesn't die to bolt.

    Chandra, Torch of Defiance - probably best Chandra, can protect herself, growth on CA, and it isnt conditional, ultimate wins fast - probably best red walker for Maverick.

    Xenagos, the Reveler - good token producer - but it doesn't grow on it. Good advantage - tokens have haste ! Ultimate is just a CA - not always win the game. It doesn't have build in defence.

    Next to test:
    - Arlinn Kord

    5CMC

    Nissa, Vital Force - Probably best 5CMC walker in this color - it can be instant CA with build-in regrowth (picking up other walkers), it ultimate really fast and it can kill if not blocker opponent walker - what more you want ?

    Garruk, Primal Hunter - this one is probably best token producer - they're really fat - you can also try to CA - but it's risky, ultimate is a win, or opponent has terminus.
    I find it odd you say Elspeth is the slow one especially vs Miracles. Obviously 1/1's are weaker than 2/2's but her second ability actually kills the opponent or Jace's which is something most other walkers don't do except maybe Gideon (or Nissa but at 5 cmc) but he opens himself up to Plow or getting blocked and Elspeth can crack for more if you target a big creature and she can do it the turn she comes in. Elspeth jumps over Brightling, monks, TNN, chumps etc. I played a lot of Elspeth back in the day in NO Bant, Maverick and even standard, you almost never wanted to ultimate her even against Jund. Elspeth being in play is more powerful than her emblem, I don't see why you'd ever ult her against miracles even some fringe case where you have Sword/Choke and your opponent is holding disenchants and is about to get the mana for them or something just kill them with the Elspeth. Sure you can have elspeth and some dorky guys and then die to entreat but every other walker has that problem where at least Elspeth is a faster clock (I've died so many times with Last Hope emblem in play - not to mention BB is going to be harder now for most lists.) I've always been the odd one out and liked Elspeth more than Gideon in Maverick, I'm also a big fan of Garruk because having the utility to kill a creature can come in handy sometimes and he's easy to cast plus 1/1 death touchers are no joke. Can't really comment on the red walkers as I've only played Bant, GW, or GWB.

  15. #655

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    Xenagos, the Reveler - good token producer - but it doesn't grow on it. Good advantage - tokens have haste ! Ultimate is just a CA - not always win the game. It doesn't have build in defence.
    I've had success with Xenagos against miracles in those instances where it resolved. A hasty 2/2 every turn was typically too much for them to contend with.

  16. #656

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Is new Ajani too slow? Maybe it's just a worse kaya...

  17. #657

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Has anyone thought of playing Narset (PW)? She looks like she would be powerful against miracles and her ult is quite easy to get to.

    Other thoughts are venser (similar to narset) or ashiok (can mess with their top deck manipulation and make them use their terminuses and brainstorm early).

    It seems doable to splash for them because nobles and BoPs can make blue without issue.

  18. #658

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Ashiok seems a bit deep, at least Leovold you can zenith for. Also her main utility is for UB decks to take big creatures, don't we just jam our own. I don't think messing with miracles top decks is enough for Ashiok

  19. #659
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I know you guys talk alot about the punishing version but I personally think I would prefer Dark Maverick. Zealous Persecution + Thoughtseize gives the deck some really strong tools to fight combo on T1 or sweep the board from DnT, Elves or some Bant´ish Stoneblade TNN decks...

    I´m not sure what the correct build would be and I just wanted to hear some thoughts about single card choices like Thalia, Heretic Cathar or 4 SFM to 0 and 2 Jitte MD like I saw in many lists the past two years or something. I know that many Maverick pilots cutted the SFM package because of Kolaghans Command but now the card will be played a bit less than before and I way very very pleased with the full package back in the day.

    My first list without the Thalia 2.0 and the full SFM package would currently look like this:

    26 Creatures
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Qasali-Pridemage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Gaddock Teeg

    11 Spells
    4 Green Suns Zenith
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawas Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    23 Lands

    2 Savannah
    2 Bayou
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Marsh Flats
    4 Wasteland
    2 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Maze of Ith

    Sideboard:
    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Zealous Persecution
    2 Choke
    2 Sylvan Library
    2 Ethersworn Canonist


    The other version would be completley without the SFM package and just 2 Jitte MD + 3 Thalia 2.0:

    25 Creatures
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    2 Qasali-Pridemage
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Gaddock Teeg

    12 Spells
    4 Green Suns Zenith
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    2 Umezawas Jitte
    2 Sylvan Library

    23 Lands
    2 Savannah
    2 Bayou
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Marsh Flats
    4 Wasteland
    2 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Maze of Ith

    Sideboard:
    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Zealous Persecution
    2 Choke
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

    I think that Thalia 2.0 is actually super strong with 4 Noble Hierarch + 4 Zenith into Arbor on T1, especially now that DS got banned the blue based or BGx decks get slower and she punishes they´re mana base more hard than before. She would also be great vs Elves, Eldrazi and Sneak Show which all should get a little boost within the next weeks/months.

    The manabase would not get hurt in comparison to the GW version because I would still play 3 basics and 4 Nobles + I would cut the 2 cavern and add another 2 fetches which make the MB more stable and I could fetch up the basics more constanty vs Blood Moon or PoP decks.
    Losing the 2 Cavern from the GW version would be of course weaken the RUG or Miracles MU a little bit because uncounerable dudes are nice.

    This is all nothing super new but I would be glad to hear some thoughts/experiences from Dark Maverick players.

    Greetings Franz
    Currently playing
    Eldrazi

  20. #660

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Manipulato View Post
    This is all nothing super new but I would be glad to hear some thoughts/experiences from Dark Maverick players.

    Greetings Franz
    Hey, I'll post my list that I'm going to be playing in the Welsh Nationals side later tonight (UK), it's still dark Maverick splashing for Leovold. Rather than SFM package Ì go more lands based.

    Thalia HC has made my win rate against elves 100% rather than 50% (only had 1 match but she saved me game 1).

    Since the DRS ban I've gone up to 4 GSZ and did a few games testing against dredge. I barely missed him, I'll try to keep track in my legacy fnm and Nats to see how often I needed him.

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