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Thread: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

  1. #101

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught33 View Post
    How are you guys feeling about tracker these days in maverick? Too slow or great for CA?

    Also, I'm curious about what you guys think about that winning list running the one of voice of resurgence. Is that worth a spot? It kind of hurts that it would cut a stone forge, knight or abrupt decay though.

    I've been testing more and more with this deck, and love it a lot. Can't wait to grind more with it.
    I'm low on tracker recently. Just too slow. I am dubious on voice as it's at its best against counter spells which most people are taking out against us. I can not think of a situation where I would gsz for it

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  2. #102
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by shallowend View Post
    I'm low on tracker recently. Just too slow. I am dubious on voice as it's at its best against counter spells which most people are taking out against us. I can not think of a situation where I would gsz for it

    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
    Voice of Resurgence is very good against two of the format's best decks, Grixis Delver and Czech Pile.

    Neither of these decks plays removal that 1-for-1's it, so it's effectively card advantage on a compact body that doesn't require other things to "work" like Stoneforge Mystic and Tireless Tracker. Obviously, our deck is capable of growing the token into a large threat.

    Scavenging Ooze is another 2-drop that excels against these decks, but is best later in the game when you have mana lying around. As such I'm generally happier to play or Zenith for Voice on turn 2 over Ooze.

    Grixis Delver still has counterspells against us post-board which Voice cripples, but discouraging the opponent from playing on your turn isn't only good vs counterspells. For example, it makes removal in response to an Equip much worse.

    Overall, I'm happy playing 1 Voice main in the current meta.

  3. #103

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I played an almost identical list on the weekend (with voice and leo) at the Belgian Lecacy Cup.
    Went 4-2-1 for a finish if 17th/74.
    Overall pretty happy with the deck, Leovold is a really good card, it was the first time I played with him (because who tests before tournaments ;)), and I'm very impressed.
    Voice felt good too, although I played against quite a few swords decks so of course there it is less interesting.
    I think I could have done better, it's been 4ish months since I've played legacy so I was a bit rusty and made some poor decisions.

    Matchups:
    0-2 BUG Delver
    2-0 Rug Delver
    2-0 Tin Fins
    1-1-1 U/W Control with Back to basics
    2-0 Esper Control
    1-2 B/W Death and Taxes
    2-0 Eldrazi


    EDIT - Looks like 2 Mav lists (#4, #18) did well in the latest Legacy Challenge https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...2-18#decklists
    Both running Leovold.
    They're both identical so I'm not sure if that's correct or not, but could well be.
    Last edited by DoomRabbit; 12-19-2017 at 07:19 AM.

  4. #104

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphix View Post
    Voice of Resurgence is very good against two of the format's best decks, Grixis Delver and Czech Pile.

    Neither of these decks plays removal that 1-for-1's it, so it's effectively card advantage on a compact body that doesn't require other things to "work" like Stoneforge Mystic and Tireless Tracker. Obviously, our deck is capable of growing the token into a large threat.

    Scavenging Ooze is another 2-drop that excels against these decks, but is best later in the game when you have mana lying around. As such I'm generally happier to play or Zenith for Voice on turn 2 over Ooze.

    Grixis Delver still has counterspells against us post-board which Voice cripples, but discouraging the opponent from playing on your turn isn't only good vs counterspells. For example, it makes removal in response to an Equip much worse.

    Overall, I'm happy playing 1 Voice main in the current meta.
    That is a convincing argument. I play in a meta without a previlence of those decks but it sounds worth a go

    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

  5. #105

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I don't want to buy a Trop just to run Leo but I probably should. Have been planning to pick back up the stuff to play Maverick variants other than Punishing over the next few months anyways.

    Not entirely sure how I feel about Blue/White Control being a big thing again ://

  6. #106

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I'm at a lost in my current meta which is super heavy on delver and UW miracles whether to run punishing fire version or dark maverick I feel like the P fires give me so much grind potential against the delver decks but sometimes I really want access to the black sideboard options.

    It doesn't help that I jam DD combo into the deck also. I tried 4 color briefly but that mana was way too shaky. I just really don't like the counter synergy of DRS with knight and especially against opposing DRS Ive run into a couple situations where we run out of lands to eat and not only do I have a dork who can't make mana but my knights are tiny.

  7. #107

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by SellaNona View Post
    I don't want to buy a Trop just to run Leo but I probably should. Have been planning to pick back up the stuff to play Maverick variants other than Punishing over the next few months anyways.

    Not entirely sure how I feel about Blue/White Control being a big thing again ://


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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Adding tournament proof that Granger Guildmage is one man army vs Elves. Won me both games which was unfavourable before.

    If your meta contains Elves and you have splash it's worth SB slot or even main.

    Green Lavamancer was also gold vs D&T, mirror and Grixis.

  9. #109

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Hey all, so I think I’m gonna be trying to make it to GP Seattle. This will be my first GP and I kinda want to play in the main event. Have any of you done a Legacy GP before? What can I expect to see and what iteration of Maverick do you guys think is the best for a large event like this? Also how should I prepare?

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Smarty744 View Post
    Hey all, so I think I’m gonna be trying to make it to GP Seattle. This will be my first GP and I kinda want to play in the main event. Have any of you done a Legacy GP before? What can I expect to see and what iteration of Maverick do you guys think is the best for a large event like this? Also how should I prepare?
    I was at 4 GPs, 2 in Legacy, some important hints which aren't easy to do (really):
    - get enough sleep before event (8 h)
    - don't drink too much coffee/energy drinks
    - get decent food, sandwiches, some hot food if you can
    - drink a lot of water or light tea during rounds
    - get byes, they really help
    - 8 rounds of Maverick piloting is mind blowing, your brain will get liquid, melt and flow over ears, next 6 rounds + top is like near death experience, You need be like machine, think only in unusual situation where it's needed, autopilot easy ones you can get it by practice. In last rounds you need be focused, You win by making less mistakes than opponent - so relax in first rounds.
    - don't tilt! It's just a random statistical card game. Skill is only half of success, second half is drawing like a devil's deal agreement side. You win only if it's your day, if not - just go for good food or make some good deals at stores.
    - if you lose, be a man and congrats your opponent, karma will return sooner or later. Don't be a dick.
    - ignore dicks, if he overreacting call judge
    - don't fear judges, if you break rules, don't wait - call judge yourself.
    - if you don't have byes you can be surprise in first rounds by Homebrew decks on which you aren't be prepared.

  11. #111

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    I was at 4 GPs, 2 in Legacy, some important hints which aren't easy to do (really):
    - get enough sleep before event (8 h)
    - don't drink too much coffee/energy drinks
    - get decent food, sandwiches, some hot food if you can
    - drink a lot of water or light tea during rounds
    - get byes, they really help
    - 8 rounds of Maverick piloting is mind blowing, your brain will get liquid, melt and flow over ears, next 6 rounds + top is like near death experience, You need be like machine, think only in unusual situation where it's needed, autopilot easy ones you can get it by practice. In last rounds you need be focused, You win by making less mistakes than opponent - so relax in first rounds.
    - don't tilt! It's just a random statistical card game. Skill is only half of success, second half is drawing like a devil's deal agreement side. You win only if it's your day, if not - just go for good food or make some good deals at stores.
    - if you lose, be a man and congrats your opponent, karma will return sooner or later. Don't be a dick.
    - ignore dicks, if he overreacting call judge
    - don't fear judges, if you break rules, don't wait - call judge yourself.
    - if you don't have byes you can be surprise in first rounds by Homebrew decks on which you aren't be prepared.
    Thanks for the tips! Do you remember how the Metas were? I’d assume there is a fair amount of burn and manaless in a legacy tournament of a couple thousand people.

  12. #112
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Smarty744 View Post
    Thanks for the tips! Do you remember how the Metas were? I’d assume there is a fair amount of burn and manaless in a legacy tournament of a couple thousand people.
    I don't think you can really expect to play against anything specific. I played Maverick at two GPs (2015 and 2016) and some of the kind of odd decks I was paired against were Pox, Goblins, Goblin Stompy and Merfolk. Funny enough, these represented most of my losses in these two events. Also Burn, Cheerios and Shardless-Counterbalance in sideevents.

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    I was at 4 GPs, 2 in Legacy, some important hints which aren't easy to do (really):
    - don't fear judges, if you break rules, don't wait - call judge yourself.
    I'm not completely sold on this one. I dropped a game because I called a judge on myself on T1. I played a fetch and found that I had SB cards in my deck still. They gave me a loss and a warning because the game had already started (my fetch.) Had I known that, I wouldn't have called them.

    Being in Maverick, be *really* good with triggers. Things that eat people alive in tournies are Spirit of the Labyrinth/Leo, Bob, and other card-drawing rules interactions. I've also dropped a game because my 61st card (a thoughtseize) fell out of my deck at my house and I wrote it on my sheet and was randomly deck checked. As if I'm attempting to cheat by having 61 cards and missing one of them. My ass. Funny thing is I think I won both those matches (Nic fit v Merfolk and Junk v Enchantress.) That Enchantress player raged pretty hard as he got hit by discard, Sculler, Lily, etc.. both rounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    I'm not completely sold on this one. I dropped a game because I called a judge on myself on T1. I played a fetch and found that I had SB cards in my deck still. They gave me a loss and a warning because the game had already started (my fetch.) Had I known that, I wouldn't have called them.
    Not reporting is literally cheating. I don't know what to say dude. Like it sucks that you got a game loss, but not reporting a decklist error because you don't want to get a game loss is cheating at a comp REL event and if they find out, you could get banned for doing that.

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Elpresidente View Post
    Not reporting is literally cheating. I don't know what to say dude. Like it sucks that you got a game loss, but not reporting a decklist error because you don't want to get a game loss is cheating at a comp REL event and if they find out, you could get banned for doing that.
    Fully agree, if you want end playing any REL Magic go on, your risk.

    Mostly I remember my GP in Amsterdam,
    Bye
    Bye
    Round 3 Lands
    Round 4 BUG Tempo
    Round 5 RUG Tempo
    Round 6 High Tide lose
    Round 7 Affinity with Canonist MD
    Round 8 D&T lose by mull/screw ☹️
    So it was good meta decks, but around have seen burns, Homebrew, belchers etc.

    I also remember Prague where I was sitting between 3 Dredgers from Germany:-) finally I played against with success. He was playing very interesting version with basics.

    Anyway in today meta probably the hardest will be belcher,/tinfins decks and S&T or big Red, others can be though but you can win them, vs above it's like coin flip which I hate.

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Elpresidente View Post
    Not reporting is literally cheating. I don't know what to say dude. Like it sucks that you got a game loss, but not reporting a decklist error because you don't want to get a game loss is cheating at a comp REL event and if they find out, you could get banned for doing that.
    The point at which you'd get deck checked has already passed. If you get deck checked before the game starts (which is when it happens) you already got your game loss for forgetting to unsideboard. If you start the game and see the mistake during shuffling, you literally can't get deck checked until the next round. Your argument is presuppositional and an emotional appeal; and not only this, but imagines a situation that literally cannot occur* (being deck checked after game 1 has started.)

    *[I realize there is probably some scenario that can come up where an opponent asks for a deck check after game 1; however; your opponent is unlikely to do this as they can't tell if your sideboard cards are part of the deck or not.]

    Second, this problem exists from layered bad game design RE: Sideboards. The fact that:
    * you have a set of cards that have to be arranged properly between matches
    * it dramatically affects the outcome of the game
    * you have many-hour long tournaments where you may or may not get to use the bathroom, eat, etc. and have to use that same timeframe to arrange said cards
    * it punishes honest players in a draconian style even if they have no previous warnings, for rules they may not remember/know about

    Thirdly, plausible deniability. If you go "whoops, yeah I'm just worn out and messed up" which is basically true or else you wouldn't have made the mistake, you are probably not going to be banned. Instead, you will get the same punishment you were going to get for being honest.

    Lastly and most importantly, from a game theory perspective, this is just what people who know the rules will do if they understand the rules. Why? Because it's the path of least resistance. You basically can't get caught [see paragraph 1], you don't deserve the game loss [see paragraph 2], and from a game theory perspective Choice A (not shooting yourself in the foot) gives you a chance to win the game and Choice B (ratting on yourself for an honest mistake) not only gives you a game loss, but gives you a warning and a record that will incur harsher penalties as you go on. And with that, the punishment for Choice A is exactly the same as Choice B [paragraph 3]* and therefore there is no risk to making that choice.

    *[Unless this isn't an honest mistake and you get caught multiple times, or you just make this mistake consistently in which case you should probably find a way to quit doing that.]


    While I wish they hadn't designed such an asinine draconian system of punishing honest players, I (being an honest player), am highly encouraged from every logical analysis of the problem am stuck with the dilemma of there being one obvious good choice, which is to be dishonest. I agree that it'd be great to be in a world where honest people aren't punished but being an exceptionally honest person i can tell you this: You will basically only be punished for it. Employers will punish honesty. Games will punish honesty. You will punish yourself by making stupid choices in the name of honor; because the people on the other side of the equation (again, from a game theory perspective) have more information than you at that point and will take the path of least resistance; which is to fuck you.

    That is the world and I am merely being nice enough to let it be known, that indeed even in your favorite passtime at an event you paid good money to go to, you will be fucked for your honesty. Do your best to make no mistakes and be well aware of the punishments for those mistakes before you decide that you would rather be honorable than enjoy something that by all rights is barely worth the money and effort to organize going to. You can shame me all you want, but in the end I'm putting the information out there so if/when the choice arrives for someone, they actually have a chance that I didn't, which is to not fuck themselves. There is literally no argument against the position provided above that makes any sense if you actually think about the way the tournament actually works and the effort put in place to get there (travel, arrangements, expenses, practice, the cards themselves.)

    The real answer to the problem is to not make this mistake in the first place; I am merely expanding on what the extremely obviously correct answer is if you do make that mistake

    EDIT: Apologies for the philosophical diversion, as you were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    The point at which you'd get deck checked has already passed. If you get deck checked before the game starts (which is when it happens) you already got your game loss for forgetting to unsideboard. If you start the game and see the mistake during shuffling, you literally can't get deck checked until the next round. Your argument is presuppositional and an emotional appeal; and not only this, but imagines a situation that literally cannot occur* (being deck checked after game 1 has started.)

    *[I realize there is probably some scenario that can come up where an opponent asks for a deck check after game 1; however; your opponent is unlikely to do this as they can't tell if your sideboard cards are part of the deck or not.]

    Second, this problem exists from layered bad game design RE: Sideboards. The fact that:
    * you have a set of cards that have to be arranged properly between matches
    * it dramatically affects the outcome of the game
    * you have many-hour long tournaments where you may or may not get to use the bathroom, eat, etc. and have to use that same timeframe to arrange said cards
    * it punishes honest players in a draconian style even if they have no previous warnings, for rules they may not remember/know about

    Thirdly, plausible deniability. If you go "whoops, yeah I'm just worn out and messed up" which is basically true or else you wouldn't have made the mistake, you are probably not going to be banned. Instead, you will get the same punishment you were going to get for being honest.

    Lastly and most importantly, from a game theory perspective, this is just what people who know the rules will do if they understand the rules. Why? Because it's the path of least resistance. You basically can't get caught [see paragraph 1], you don't deserve the game loss [see paragraph 2], and from a game theory perspective Choice A (not shooting yourself in the foot) gives you a chance to win the game and Choice B (ratting on yourself for an honest mistake) not only gives you a game loss, but gives you a warning and a record that will incur harsher penalties as you go on. And with that, the punishment for Choice A is exactly the same as Choice B [paragraph 3]* and therefore there is no risk to making that choice.

    *[Unless this isn't an honest mistake and you get caught multiple times, or you just make this mistake consistently in which case you should probably find a way to quit doing that.]


    While I wish they hadn't designed such an asinine draconian system of punishing honest players, I (being an honest player), am highly encouraged from every logical analysis of the problem am stuck with the dilemma of there being one obvious good choice, which is to be dishonest. I agree that it'd be great to be in a world where honest people aren't punished but being an exceptionally honest person i can tell you this: You will basically only be punished for it. Employers will punish honesty. Games will punish honesty. You will punish yourself by making stupid choices in the name of honor; because the people on the other side of the equation (again, from a game theory perspective) have more information than you at that point and will take the path of least resistance; which is to fuck you.

    That is the world and I am merely being nice enough to let it be known, that indeed even in your favorite passtime at an event you paid good money to go to, you will be fucked for your honesty. Do your best to make no mistakes and be well aware of the punishments for those mistakes before you decide that you would rather be honorable than enjoy something that by all rights is barely worth the money and effort to organize going to. You can shame me all you want, but in the end I'm putting the information out there so if/when the choice arrives for someone, they actually have a chance that I didn't, which is to not fuck themselves. There is literally no argument against the position provided above that makes any sense if you actually think about the way the tournament actually works and the effort put in place to get there (travel, arrangements, expenses, practice, the cards themselves.)

    The real answer to the problem is to not make this mistake in the first place; I am merely expanding on what the extremely obviously correct answer is if you do make that mistake

    EDIT: Apologies for the philosophical diversion, as you were.
    I understand your points, but have something to add:
    I disagree on paragraph 1, on high level constructions are mostly well known, and even on big tournament you will know your opponent deck, this mean if you face direct SB card, game 1 I would call judge instantly. This would end all REL game for my opponent since he didn't call judge himself, and he know his deck which directly lead to a cheating. I remember the shock when one of the well known player pack first time pyroblasts MD.

    Sideboard isn't bad design, it's one of the strategic aspect of Magic. Sorry but sideboarding is one of the aspects which need to be learned. I don't see it's a problem swap up to 15 cards in such a complex game. Giving opportunity in SB before the game by cheating - gives Hugh advantage, think about straight strategies like Storm or Reanimator - if punishment would be light, we would have plague of cheating.
    Last aspect is stress which is worst then any punishment. If you will continue playing you won't be focused on game, bacuase You will be thinking about consequences and chance of being caught- not worth, really.

    Game loss isn't the end of tournament! You can still win this match, I made a lot of mistakes in decklists from many reasons, get game losses and still made decent results. If deck check isn't vs some glass canon combo you can win next two games.

    Remember that rules aren't so restrict like they was about SB.

    Economical argument is nonsense for me, unless playing MtG is your Job, it won't be good aspect to look at this moral problem.
    From economical view you shouldn't be playing Magic at all! You should playing poker since it's much more profitable, have bigger risk value and doesn't require such investment on cards.

    Magic is TCG which gives fun on the first place. If you think about not report sloppy SB card in your next round, you do it wrong and take away all fun.

    Advise to not commit SB mistakes ever, count and check your SB after and BEFORE every game.

  18. #118
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    On a different note, Blue Maverick took down the most recent Legacy Challenge, and the list is fucking nuts.

  19. #119

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
    On a different note, Blue Maverick took down the most recent Legacy Challenge, and the list is fucking nuts.

    People need to stop posting results with blue Mav before I have to go buy blue duals. And I don’t think the world is ready for me with blue duals.

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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Smarty744 View Post
    People need to stop posting results with blue Mav before I have to go buy blue duals. And I don’t think the world is ready for me with blue duals.
    Played few games with Leo Dark Maverick, quite similar to upper ones, but with changes:

    // 61 Maindeck
    // 2 Artifact
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    // 28 Creature
    1 Tireless Tracker
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Birds of Paradise
    1 Sylvan Safekeeper
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Dryad Arbor
    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Renegade Rallier
    1 Noble Hierarch
    1 Granger Guildmage
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

    // 4 Instant
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    // 23 Land
    4 Wasteland
    2 Savannah
    1 Bayou
    1 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Forest
    1 Taiga
    1 Scrubland
    2 Tropical Island
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Misty Rainforest
    // Misty can't find Scrubland but I would rather have access to dryad arbor then Scrubland from 9th fetchland, other option is to replace scrubland (which I actually like) for Bayou which isn't good idea.

    // 4 Sorcery
    4 Green Sun's Zenith


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 2 Creature
    SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 1 Reclamation Sage

    // 1 Enchantment
    SB: 1 Shapers' Sanctuary

    // 5 Instant
    SB: 1 Blessed Alliance
    SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
    SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 1 Fatal Push

    // 4 Planeswalker
    SB: 2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    SB: 1 Nissa, Vital Force
    SB: 1 Garruk Relentless

    // 3 Sorcery
    SB: 3 Thoughtseize


    It's good, but I found issues with mana, probably 9th fetchland is must have in Canopy slot. Done . Actually this construction is 5 color :-), but Red is minor splash, blue is also minor splash, so basically it's Dark Maverick with 3 blue cards MD. I didn't test yet blue cards in SB but they can be quite useful - for example flusterstorm :-).

    I cut 3 mana dorks since I think it's not worth, it's easy target for -1/-1 removal - specially hierarchs. If I will have still issues with mana I will put 1 more Shaman to have 4 shamans, 1 bop, 1 hierarch, having more is just a slot waste.

    Some players will probably ask does some utility creatures like Granger Guildmage or Scryb Ranger is really needed - yes they does.

    Funny fact this deck actually run full domain 5c :-), but 2 colors are splash - so don't worry :-). Joke - I only miss Red creature to coalition victory conditions. I found Leo is best solution for opponent Leovold with additional benefits, end of the story.
    Last edited by Fatal; 12-27-2017 at 07:13 PM.

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