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Thread: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

  1. #161

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Hey all-

    Can somebody tell me how to attempt to beat miracles, mostly through terminus? I've been getting wrecked by it lately. I know our best cards are teeg, thalia, leovold, sylvan library, maybe PW like gideon-typically i play good players in my area who counter any of these on sight.

    If anybody knows how to actually win this one, can you walk me through what you look for in an opening hand, how you sideboard, how you sequence, etc.? I'm basically running this list verbatim, occasionally i switch a card or two- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/893631#paper

    Thanks!

  2. #162

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught33 View Post
    Hey all-

    Can somebody tell me how to attempt to beat miracles, mostly through terminus? I've been getting wrecked by it lately. I know our best cards are teeg, thalia, leovold, sylvan library, maybe PW like gideon-typically i play good players in my area who counter any of these on sight.

    If anybody knows how to actually win this one, can you walk me through what you look for in an opening hand, how you sideboard, how you sequence, etc.? I'm basically running this list verbatim, occasionally i switch a card or two- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/893631#paper

    Thanks!
    I doubt you'll find a satisfying answer but I'll try. First of all, try to lower your expectations as it's a pretty bad MU.

    The trick is you just have to get teeg + prelate OR teeg + 2-3 MoMs OR teeg + Safekeeper online.... see where I'm going? Then, like it wasn't enough already, you have to get a little lucky. If you can't establish a lock, then your chances are pretty slim. I beat miracles a few weeks back and it was due to my opponent making a mistake. I had to activate safekeeper 7 times until I ran out of lands and he still almost had me.

  3. #163
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Working towards the lock is one game plan. You need to work with what you draw, usually I think you try to pressure them by playing 1-2 threats and not overcommitting into Terminus. That's the first game plan. Try to save resources to beat a landed Jace. Like, having an equipment in play and saving a fetch is good, arbor gets quasi haste. Sword of l&s protects it from stp though so that's a consideration. Tracker is nice, I would try to pull out a swords and a snapcaster then hope to get the opponent to have to terminus it, so I can get it back with a gsz. Card advantage is important, but it's very hard to keep up with miracles there. If you can get a Karakas your Thalias will be more of a threat since you can protevt them without overcommitting. Slowing down their cantrips is good.

    From the sideboard there is thoughtseize which can help you disrupt the opponent enough to get a win. Probably a bit controversial. The chokes are game winners, planeswalkers too.. If you want to beat them regularly you need practice and probably adjusting the deck, I spent a long time doing that before the top ban and i still tended to lose tight games.

  4. #164

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Question-

    Vs. Miracles would you rather bring in 2 copies of Liliana, The Last Hope or 2 Surgical Extraction.

    Liliana can clean up mentor tokens/snaps, pick up a countered thing, and threaten inevitability. But 99% it's too slow and loses to angels, you have nothing to kill and no creatures in the yard. Surgical is good at removing plow to help the teeg plan, "countering" a snapcaster or predict, shuffling to stop a miracle when they telegraph it, combo with thoughtseize, etc etc but it doesn't do much when you're behind on board and when you need card advantage or a threat or even an answer it's none of those.

    I normally haven't been bringing in the surgicals but my winrate vs this deck is pretty low (but I don't play against it that often thankfully). Liliana also has the upside of being a PW you can play through Teeg though.

  5. #165
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    @Rascalyote: maybe someone can answer this better than me, but that never stopped me. So, I always consider Surgical too but rarely bring it in from Maverick. Maybe that's a mistake. But Liliana tlh can both provide a game winning ultimate and clear the board from chump blocking snapcasters, which means you can pressure their Jace. I would try Liliana here..

    Edit: oh yeah, Qasali getting Azcanta or Counterbalance and coming back is a thing too.

    Edit2: I will think through my Miracles plan for next time I play Maverick. What are others doing? I guess Miracles is part of the reason why Leovold-heavy lists are popular. Leo+mother is lika a two card soft-lock vs a deck made up of cantrips. And Leo doesn't get ambush vipered by Snapcaster. If not going blue maybe 2 Liliana tlh and a gsz-able hexproofer could help from the board? The problem with Thrun was always not getting through, msybe Liliana tlh can help with that..

  6. #166
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    against Miracles we cant do much imo - we can win against poor players, but good players will have easy game against us.
    im glad that there arent much miracles players in my meta atm.

    i just sleeved up some lotus cobras and test a mother/sfm-less maverick list today

  7. #167
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    +1 on Choke. I’m playing 3 in my board; having must-answers for Miracles, Blade etc means you’ll either get them with the Choke, or they’ll expend resources on it and you’ll have an easier time getting your Thalia, Teeg, etc to stick. I

  8. #168

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught33 View Post
    Hey all-

    Can somebody tell me how to attempt to beat miracles, mostly through terminus? I've been getting wrecked by it lately. I know our best cards are teeg, thalia, leovold, sylvan library, maybe PW like gideon-typically i play good players in my area who counter any of these on sight.

    If anybody knows how to actually win this one, can you walk me through what you look for in an opening hand, how you sideboard, how you sequence, etc.? I'm basically running this list verbatim, occasionally i switch a card or two- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/893631#paper

    Thanks!
    Stuart is correct on Choke. Its better than it used to be in this match up (and it used to be great). Previous, 1 Planes could be used to search with top for answers. Now they cannot do that. They must spend blue mana for cantrips outside of Search for Azcanta. I play Punishing Fire, so I have more game against them. Punishing Fire hits walkers, and can be used a test card for Counter Balance. Game 2, Pyroblast or Reb is Excellent. A back up Gaddock Teeg in the board is great too. Game 1 will not be in your favor. Adding more QPM may help. Considering boarding out mana dorks, removal.

  9. #169
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I like Bitterblossom in the sideboard of any deck making black mana right now, especially equipment decks. It's very good against Miracles, also solid against Czech Pile and Lands.

    On a similar front, I'm considering playing a Moorland Haunt as part of the land toolbox in a deck with the blue splash. It's bad against STP decks but seems like a good way to come back against the UBx grindy decks, again, especially if you're playing equipment.

    This is what I assembled but it hasn't been tested or optimized and I haven't thought of much SB outside Flusterstorm, ZP, Surgical and Choke.

    3 Mother of Runes
    4 Noble Hierarch
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Ramunap Excavator
    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Sylvan Safekeeper
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 Dryad Arbor

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Sylvan Library

    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Wasteland
    2 other fetches
    2 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou
    1 Gaea's Cradle
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    1 Moorland Haunt
    1 Forest
    1 Plains

  10. #170
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    @Maharis: I like Bitterblossom too. I actually tried two Jitte and two Bitterblossom over the Stoneforge package about a month ago but it wasn't overwhelmingly good. May try again.

  11. #171
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    @Maharis: I like Bitterblossom too. I actually tried two Jitte and two Bitterblossom over the Stoneforge package about a month ago but it wasn't overwhelmingly good. May try again.
    I don't think it's a maindeckable card (and believe me I've tried). But it is a good card out of the board against grindier decks. It often catches people by surprise.

  12. #172
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I like the BitterBlossom idea. Good excuse to buy one for my tokens deck too lol

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  13. #173

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    Working towards the lock is one game plan. You need to work with what you draw, usually I think you try to pressure them by playing 1-2 threats and not overcommitting into Terminus. That's the first game plan. Try to save resources to beat a landed Jace. Like, having an equipment in play and saving a fetch is good, arbor gets quasi haste. Sword of l&s protects it from stp though so that's a consideration. Tracker is nice, I would try to pull out a swords and a snapcaster then hope to get the opponent to have to terminus it, so I can get it back with a gsz. Card advantage is important, but it's very hard to keep up with miracles there. If you can get a Karakas your Thalias will be more of a threat since you can protevt them without overcommitting. Slowing down their cantrips is good.

    From the sideboard there is thoughtseize which can help you disrupt the opponent enough to get a win. Probably a bit controversial. The chokes are game winners, planeswalkers too.. If you want to beat them regularly you need practice and probably adjusting the deck, I spent a long time doing that before the top ban and i still tended to lose tight games.
    Every time I get a choke down I get a game. Doesn't mean I'll win the match but resolved choke = insta win.

  14. #174

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Hey guys- if any of you play the version with 4x hierarch and more leovold, can you talk about what might make this better vs mom and SFM? In my sort of novice with the deck head, Mom seems great sometimes but there are times on turn one I wish she was a dork to ramp. I’d love to hear people’s thoughts, I see it was mentioned earlier in the thread but I’m wondering if we can flesh it out a bit.

  15. #175

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Strassbaw View Post
    This is my current list. I am trying Thalia main deck, but I don't normally play it main deck. The addition of the planeswalker in my board is because of the number of miracle players and 4cc players in my meta game. I've been playing punishing maverick for many years and the deck has plenty of room for tweaking cards for a given meta game.


    Maindeck (60)
    1 Birds of Paradise
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Mother of Runes
    1 Noble Hierarch
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Scryb Ranger
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Punishing Fire
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Bayou
    1 Dark Depths
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Forest
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    2 Plateau
    2 Savannah
    1 Taiga
    1 Thespian's Stage
    3 Wasteland
    3 Windswept Heath
    4 Wooded Foothills

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Ajani Vengeant
    1 Garruk Relentless
    2 Crop Rotation
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Choke
    1 Bojuka Bog

    I like this list. I lost my win and in at a "win a tabernacle" tournament, got the pair down. My opponent couldn't make top 8 but dream crushed me anyway. That being said, I lost to storm and had a couple tuff spots not having thalia because I was on pfire. I thought that it was one or the other but I can see where it wouldn't be that bad of a set back given the matchups it improves. I'm going to try this list out preparing for Worcester. Any help with sideboarding would be helpful. I've just started down the maverick road from playing turbo depths. Really like playing more magic with this deck but I still get to keep some of the crazy combo.

  16. #176

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    Working towards the lock is one game plan. You need to work with what you draw, usually I think you try to pressure them by playing 1-2 threats and not overcommitting into Terminus. That's the first game plan. Try to save resources to beat a landed Jace. Like, having an equipment in play and saving a fetch is good, arbor gets quasi haste. Sword of l&s protects it from stp though so that's a consideration. Tracker is nice, I would try to pull out a swords and a snapcaster then hope to get the opponent to have to terminus it, so I can get it back with a gsz. Card advantage is important, but it's very hard to keep up with miracles there. If you can get a Karakas your Thalias will be more of a threat since you can protevt them without overcommitting. Slowing down their cantrips is good.

    From the sideboard there is thoughtseize which can help you disrupt the opponent enough to get a win. Probably a bit controversial. The chokes are game winners, planeswalkers too.. If you want to beat them regularly you need practice and probably adjusting the deck, I spent a long time doing that before the top ban and i still tended to lose tight games.
    Thanks for everybody's tips. I actually managed to win 4 out of 4 games vs miracles last night using the leovold heavy version and the tips you guys gave. More testing and tournament reports to come from me. I’ll at least be the legacy player in some of the team events to come.

  17. #177

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Sorry for all the posts and questions from me, but I'm really trying to ramp up learning this deck for SCG team constructed in May of this year-

    1) Is there a really good writeup or podcast of how to play each matchup? Including lines of play to take, side boarding etc.?

    2) Any really solid videos you guys know with pro level players or just excellent players piloting the deck? Preferably the 'abzan leovold' type version.

    Btw, I got completely punished yesterday vs Red D and T, Magus SMOKED me. Need to learn how to play the new D and T lists better.....

    Thanks!

  18. #178

    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    That version of the deck is pretty new and legacy coverage isn't the best so I doubt you'll find much covering on this deck. Nevertheless, so long as you are not playing the punishing fire version (which is extremely different) any maverick build should play very similarly. All versions are toolbox decks with hatebears and a land package after all.

    As for RW taxes, you should smoke that MU in a heartbeat so long as you are able to get basics/mana dork before they moon you . Once you have 1 forest and 1 plains you can get anything through casting or GSZ so, like the og DnT, you just need to get pridemage and blow his stuff. Your biggest concern will be flying creatures but that is always a concern for us since we have very few ways to interact with them. On the other hand, they should be playing less Miran Crusaders so that's a good thing. That version should still be pretty weak to Zealous Persecution (MoM, Flickerwisp, Thalia, Pia and Kiran, etc) or any other wrath effect you might be playing.

  19. #179
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught33 View Post
    2) Any really solid videos you guys know with pro level players or just excellent players piloting the deck? Preferably the 'abzan leovold' type version.
    Keep asking, no need to appologize! I watch few streams and never saw the deck in a large tournament, but I did see jmilia playing it on mtgo on twitch so you can find his videos there. Not the pro level material you requested but it's something.

  20. #180
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    Re: [Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

    I'm not seeing a lot of discussion about just straight Punishing Maverick but I'd like to point out that it's still great. Just played some side events at SCG Phil and the deck is still a beast. This is where I'm at- https://deckbox.org/sets/1909286- same as http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1027539 - but with a few sideboard changes that have been working quite well.
    1. Cut Elspeth, Knight Errant in favor of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. I feel like people are realizing that Zealous Persecution and Golgari Charm are really good and the mana dorks in non-black DRS lists are particularly susceptible. It is worse against D&T and Karakas decks in general, but better against almost everything else, and the D&T matchup already feels fine so I feel comfortable losing a few percentage points there.
    2. Cut a REB for a second Qasali for the D&T and quad-bridge Moon Stompy matchup, though maybe it should just be a second Ethersworn Canonist.


    I've found that Elves is a difficult matchup despite the seemingly good cards post-board. The issue is that they can combo off before I can leverage the PFire engine, get a Jitte online, or cast a Fiery Justice. Is it worth running something as narrow as Blazing Volley or is there some secret tech in WRG that I'm not aware of for the matchup that might be generically good in other matchups?

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