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Thread: Oops, All Gideons!

  1. #21
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    IDK if this is useful - but can you make a Gideon into a creature - then cast Sakashima the Impostor targeting that Gideon? Would Sakashima enter the battlefield as a full PW and all the associated abilities and Loyalty counters? I never wondered about that because the copied creature would've also been a gideon and the unqiueness rule would've killed it. But as a legend - i think Sakashima would stay right? Not sure if that's good - but in a possible white/blue version you can run Sakashima as gideons that can pitch to blue.

  2. #22

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    This deck interested me enough to join just so I could post. I was going through and reading the posts and it got me thinking, what about sonething like this as a preliminary list

    7 Plains
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    2 Karakas
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    2 Wasteland
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    3 Mox Diamond
    2 Chrome Mox
    2 Heart of Kiran
    3 Crucible of Worlds
    4 Armageddon
    3 Wrath of God
    4 Gideon of the Trials
    3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    2 Humility
    3 Call the Gatewatch

    sb: 2 Wasteland
    sb: 1 Karakas
    sb: 2 Damping Matrix
    sb: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
    sb: 3 Rest in Peace
    sb: 3 Council's Judgement
    sb: 1 Wrath of God

    my aim with this list is to incorporate some of the better technology that I've seen in this thread into one cohesive list. I don't know if it works but it seems like it's not terrible at the very least. If anyone sees something that could be improved, let me know.

    Edit: Spelling.

  3. #23

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Not sure if you want Vehicles in a Humility list. You can crew them/use Heart's PW ability, but then they'd become a 1/1 with no abilities if you have Humility out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I about died from laughter when I was watching my feature match and the commentators called Tinfins a difficult and challenging deck.

    I'm not saying it's the easiest deck to play, but the plan is so linear that I could probably get white girl wasted and still beat people with the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Imagine the trauma of a man who has seen Mom into Crusader enough to mainboard three Cabal Pits.

  4. #24

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Not sure if you want Vehicles in a Humility list. You can crew them/use Heart's PW ability, but then they'd become a 1/1 with no abilities if you have Humility out.
    Don't Vehicles work under humility like Manlands do? Or has that changed?

  5. #25

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Don't Vehicles work under humility like Manlands do? Or has that changed?
    The crew ability looks like it simply turns the artifact into a creature, the power/toughness is already "set". Thus it is affected by Humility.
    Manlands actually specify through the ability that the power/toughness is adjusted. Same as the Gideons specifying the P/T through the ability.

  6. #26

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    The crew ability looks like it simply turns the artifact into a creature, the power/toughness is already "set". Thus it is affected by Humility.
    Manlands actually specify through the ability that the power/toughness is adjusted. Same as the Gideons specifying the P/T through the ability.
    I see, thanks.

  7. #27

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Quote Originally Posted by CelestialMorningLight View Post
    This deck interested me enough to join just so I could post. I was going through and reading the posts and it got me thinking, what about sonething like this as a preliminary list

    7 Plains
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    2 Karakas
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    2 Wasteland
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    3 Mox Diamond
    2 Chrome Mox
    2 Heart of Kiran
    3 Crucible of Worlds
    4 Armageddon
    3 Wrath of God
    4 Gideon of the Trials
    3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    2 Humility
    3 Call the Gatewatch

    sb: 2 Wasteland
    sb: 1 Karakas
    sb: 2 Damping Matrix
    sb: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
    sb: 3 Rest in Peace
    sb: 3 Council's Judgement
    sb: 1 Wrath of God

    my aim with this list is to incorporate some of the better technology that I've seen in this thread into one cohesive list. I don't know if it works but it seems like it's not terrible at the very least. If anyone sees something that could be improved, let me know.

    Edit: Spelling.
    Same for me, also joined because this deck is calling out to me. I think the main thing to do is finding out what the weakest match-ups are against the top decks. The deck has decent game MB against combo between humility, 3-ball, chalice and trials. Against fair decks you have the mana denial plan along with humilty and board wipes to keep alive.

    Reading the thread I came to this list:
    Planeswalkers
    4 Gideon of the Trials
    3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    2 Gideon Jura
    2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant


    Spells
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Humilty
    4 Armageddon
    3 Trinisphere
    3 Wrath of God
    3 Crucible of Worlds

    Other
    2 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

    Mana
    4 Plains
    4 Snow-Covered Plains
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    3 Flagstones of Trokair
    2 Karakas
    2 Wasteland
    2 Chrome Mox
    3 Mox Diamond

    Sideboard:
    2 Damping Matrix
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Containment Priest
    3 Rest in Piece
    2 Council's Judgment
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Ghost Quarter

    I'm gonna proxy up the deck and playtest a bit to see if there is anything obvious that can be done to improve it.
    I also found someone giving the a RW list a go https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/750952#paper

    Cards to consider:
    Bottled Cloister is played by Red/Chandra Stompy and is nice card advantage if it sticks, although we don't have Ensnaring Bridge to get extra value.
    Sea Gate Wreckage is another source of card advantage when you're hellbent.
    StP or PtE for matches where Chalice doesn't do enough/anything like stompy mirrors or DnT.
    Heart of Kiran could be okay in the sideboard to switch with Humilty due to the non-bo, but white just have so many better options in the matches where this is the case.
    Ghostly Prison/Sphere of Safety are subpar I think. GP doesn't protect your Gideons which is meh and SoS is really expensive for what it does.
    Helm of Obedience and E. Tutor/Inventor's Fair gives you an option where you don't smash face to win, but it might be too cute.

  8. #28
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    New Gideon:

    Gideon Blackblade 1WW
    Legendary Planeswalker - Gideon Mythic Rare
    As long as its your turn, Gideon Blackblade is a 4/4 Human Soldier with Indestructible that's still a planeswalker.
    Prevent all damage that would be dealt to Gideon Blackblade during your turn.
    +1 >> Up to one other target creature you control gains your choice of vigilance, lifelink, or indestructible until end of turn.
    -6 >> Exile target nonland permanent.
    <<4>>

    It's another cheap Gideon. I know the latest lists don't run 10 Gideon's, but that's because the other Gideon's were expensive and not great. What about now. We might think to inlcude creatures so that this Gideon's plus one ability can taget something?

    -30 Sources of Mana
    8 Plains
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    4 Wasteland
    2 City of Traitors
    2 Karakas
    4 Mox Diamond
    2 Chrome Mox

    -19 Control
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    11 Other

    -11 Gideons
    4 Gideon of the Trials
    4 Gideon Blackblade
    3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

  9. #29

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    We might think to inlcude creatures so that this Gideon's plus one ability can taget something?
    Don't think that's needed. Just give lifelink to his fellow Gideons.

    Should Mirror Gallery be looked into, so multiples of the same Gideon aren't dead draws?

  10. #30
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    That's a good point!

    RE Mirror Gallery - i don;t think so - I think the Chrome Mox is decent enough to get rid of dead draw Giddeon's, we might need some card quality filtering, but most of the other cards should probably be used for control like WOG/Humility I think.

  11. #31

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Humility should be an auto-include.
    EDIT: And maybe even Armageddon if you're playing Flagstones.

  12. #32
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Good number of Gideons, but needs more Humility.

    4/4 indestructible Gideon? LOL I play Gurmag Angler.

    Thalias and Revokers and flying legends are also a problem (7/7 lifelinks, 15/15 pro colors, 20/20 indestructibles, 7/7 you can't play white spells). Karakas helps, but it's easier to win vs 1/1s.

    That might be too many mana sources too. I ran 26-30 sources with Armageddon Stax years ago, but that was also with multiple Armageddons and Smokestacks and manlands and Wastelock and 5cmc win conditions and lands that produce no mana (Tabernacle). Without Geddons and a curve topping out at 4, a Chalice/3sphere deck shouldn't need so much mana. Maybe 26 sources and 4 more disruption?

  13. #33

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    That might be too many mana sources too. I ran 26-30 sources with Armageddon Stax years ago, but that was also with multiple Armageddons and Smokestacks and manlands and Wastelock and 5cmc win conditions and lands that produce no mana (Tabernacle). Without Geddons and a curve topping out at 4, a Chalice/3sphere deck shouldn't need so much mana. Maybe 26 sources and 4 more disruption?
    I think it's more of a Mox Diamond thing.
    You're probably right, we can cut the full Mox Diamond Playset and just play 4 Chrome Mox, which, as stated above, is good with this many legends. I wonder if we can't play Mox Amber for the same reason... (Probably a stretch though as it doesn't cast T1 Chalice).

  14. #34
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Quote Originally Posted by aedemiel View Post
    I think it's more of a Mox Diamond thing.
    Other way around I think. Geddon Stax plays Mox Diamond over Chrome Mox (and a high land count) because it's blowing up all the lands anyway and runs 4 Crucible, so Mox Diamond is much more synergistic with the game plan. Also Stax runs a high artifact count making Chrome Mox bad. This build doesn't have any of that going for it, so the 30-mana Mox Diamond plan doesn't make sense. Most other Chalice decks don't prefer Mox Diamond (4c Loam is an exception for obvious reasons).

    Chrome Mox seems best. Mox Amber is jank.

  15. #35
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    The reason I double Moxed was because 8 of our Giddeon's, our best Giddeon's are 1WW, and thus the Sol lands do not really help. It seems crucial to be able to start casting Giddeons Turn 2.

  16. #36
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    The reason I double Moxed was because 8 of our Giddeon's, our best Giddeon's are 1WW, and thus the Sol lands do not really help. It seems crucial to be able to start casting Giddeons Turn 2.
    That doesn't explain why there are more Mox Diamonds than Chrome Moxes or why there are 30 mana sources.

    Also, Gideon turn 2 vs turn 3 shouldn't matter as much as landing lock pieces turn 1/2. You still want Plains + land + Mox, but the more important function of the Mox is probably to get that lock piece down fast.

  17. #37
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Fair enough. What about something like:

    10 Other Lands
    6 Sol Land
    4 Waste Lands
    4 Chrome Mox
    2 Mod Diamond

    11 Gideons

    4 Chalice
    4 Trinisphere
    3 Wrath of God
    3 Humility
    3 Armageddon
    2 Crucible of Worlds

    4 "Open"

    Does that make more sense?

  18. #38
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Oh, you are playing multiple Armageddon and Crucible. That's a different story. Your other list didn't have them. You should probably decide whether you want to commit to the Armageddon/CrucibleLock plan or not because that has a huge impact on the choice of manabase. They aren't just flex slots but build-arounds.

    If you're not on the Geddon plan, then 4 Chrome Mox + 2 Mox Diamond sounds fine.

    In general, 3 Wraths + 3 Humility is overkill. Maindeck Wrath is pretty bad and too slow in some games. Just play Humility. It does so much more work in Legacy by shutting down abilities, haste, and creatures generated at instant speed. If you're on the Geddon plan, add 1-2 Tabernacle as your Wrath and SB Ghostly Prison if you're really worried about getting swarmed by 1/1s. If you're not on the Geddon plan, maybe use maindeck Ghostly Prison or use Heart of Kiran and Mishra's Factory as blockers (Prison doesn't stop creatures from attacking Gideons, but Heart and Factory are big through Humility).

  19. #39

    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Does a small Red splash for Nahiri and something like Deafening Clarion or some of the Red Final Fortune variants make sense here? Timewalks, draw, and removal are always good.

  20. #40
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    Re: Oops, All Gideons!

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Does a small Red splash for Nahiri and something like Deafening Clarion or some of the Red Final Fortune variants make sense here? Timewalks, draw, and removal are always good.
    Chance for Glory is an easier splash than Final Fortune and has some interesting interactions with the emblem... Unfortunately the Indestrucible clause is not that useful unless you're using it to save Mishra's Factories from Armageddon (8-9 mana??). Maybe to save Heart of Kiran? The card is also terrible in a lot of situations, so I don't know if a non-Gideon walker + Clarion + Chance are worth the splash.

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