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Thread: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

  1. #341

    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    Yeah, you're right. So, I will look for better solutions, maybe just UW stoneblade (but I don't own any snapcaster). Sometimes I think I'm too poor to play Legacy, but Legacy is the best format

  2. #342

    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    I would just run UW delverblade until you save up to buy some snapcasters for UW stoneblade. From there you could even try getting into jeskai stoneblade, thanks to prismatic vista you really only need 1 tundra/1 volc to make it work.

    Delverblade isn't well positioned right now, but that doesn't mean its unplayable. Legacy rewards practice, so sitting down and just playing games is really valuable.

  3. #343

    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    Yeah, you're right! Thanks a lot!

  4. #344

    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    As a new year’s thing, here’s a mini 2019 retrospective of my year with stoneblade. It’s more a collection of my thoughts than anything so take them for what they’re worth or discuss them below.

    Esper Stoneblade:
    I started off the year on Esper Stoneblade, and frankly I think the deck is in a really rough spot. Things were business as usual until WAR released and unleashed teferi and narset. Esper has always had a problem dealing with resolved planeswalkers, but prior to WAR they weren’t that ubiquitous. Now basically any blue midrange deck is probably jamming at least 4 blue planeswalkers and esper’s inability to deal with resolved walkers evolved from inconvenience to existential crisis. As a result, the thoughtseizes that esper is really built on have a lost a ton of value compared to the red elemental blast effects that jeskai gets. The printing of Oko and Veil of Summer were the last straws and finally pushed my stubborn butt out of esper into jeskai. Black(AKA the kill color) not having a way to kill off resolved walkers is just ridiculous to me, but whatever I guess.
    Esper did get some new toys though, the most notable of which is probably plague engineer. That card is seriously good in creature centric metas. It’s just unfortunate that legacy has now firmly shifted more towards planeswalkers.

    Jeskai Stoneblade:
    This deck didn’t change that much, the biggest difference between 2018 and 2019 jeskai stoneblade is basically the WAR planeswalkers. What did happen is everyone started playing blue planeswalkers, so the power of red blasts went through the roof. IMO, jeskai is the best positioned stoneblade deck if everyone insists on jamming blue planeswalkers.

    UW Stoneblade:
    Honestly I’m confused why people play this deck in a post prismatic vista world. Prismatic vista in my estimation has made 3 color stoneblade decks very stable and has eroded a large chunk of the consistency barrier between 2 and 3 color manabases. I just don’t think the stability of the two color manabase outweighs the benefit of a 3rd color anymore. The deck still seems to put up results though so maybe I’m just talking out my ass.

    Bant Stoneblade:
    I’ve got a feeling that this is probably the best stoneblade variant, but we just don’t know it yet. Oko and Veil are really good cards and they’ve put up decent results already. Once a more optimized bant list gets put together it could give jeskai stoneblade a serious run for the crown.



    Other Random Stuff:

    Narset, Parter of Veils vs Teferi, Time Raveler
    When WAR dropped it was immediately obvious both of these walkers were worthy of maindeck slots. Which was better was more unclear however. Having tested both, I’m now of the belief that Teferi is the better walker. Between shutting down entire lines of play, making all your spells uncounterable, and bouncing problematic permanents he’ll almost always be relevant in some way. Narset on the other hand is a narrower planeswalker, a lot of times she ended up just being an overcosted impulse. Don’t get me wrong, she’s still really good in blue mirrors and worth an inclusion somewhere in any blade deck.
    If I had my way though, these one sided walkers would never have been printed. But can’t undo it now and you’d be pretty foolish to not play either of these guys.

    Sword of Fire and Ice vs Sword of Feast and Famine
    When it comes to a 3rd piece of equipment I’ve seen a lot of very successful decklists run either one of these. I started the year on Sword of Fire and Ice liking it for the same reasons basically everyone else does, it oozes value. Having said that, I asked a Feast and Famine pilot about his selection and liked his logic enough to try it. Basically I found what he said was true. Batterskull and Jitte are already pretty fantastic in creature matchups so no help needed in that department. The third piece of equipment is really all about killing combo decks. Fire and Ice vs combo does have some problems, tapping down 3 mana to equip the sword is a pretty dangerous shields down moment. And even if you do connect it’s far from guaranteed that the card you draw is useful. Feast and Famine on the other hand doesn’t give a combo opponent any windows. The three mana equip cost is undone once the creature connects. And forcing a discard out of your opponent while simultaneously passing the turn fully untapped puts the combo player in a much more frightening position.


    Favorite Discovery:
    Before legacy one of my favorite cards was gifts ungiven. The act of handing opponents an unwinnable choice is something I’ve always enjoyed. It will then come as no surprise that I love me some intuition, but I haven’t found a good way to play it. Then Anzi paired intuition with sevinne’s reclamation and finally handed me a way to play intuition without being laughed out of the room. Intuition/Sevinne’s Reclamation can end value wars on the spot and is how I’m currently choosing to win my grindier matchups. To be fair though, Sevinne’s Reclamation on its own is probably good enough, but I love intuition enough to play it regardless.

    Most Underrated Card:
    I think brazen borrower should have a home in stoneblade. Delver has already accepted the newcomer with open arms. The bounce ability has bought me the time needed to turn the corner more than a few times, and in the late game it becomes another evasive body that can carry equipment. It not being legendary also pushed it over the top of vendilion clique. Vendilion clique is powerful but being legendary generally restricted to a 1 of, which makes it unreliable. There’s a ton of games you’ll want it but just won’t find it.

    Here’s the list I left 2019 with, I’m sure it will evolve going forward.
    Here’s to another year of legacy!

  5. #345

    [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by First_Revenge View Post
    As a new year’s thing, here’s a mini 2019 retrospective of my year with stoneblade. It’s more a collection of my thoughts than anything so take them for what they’re worth or discuss them below.

    Esper Stoneblade:
    I started off the year on Esper Stoneblade, and frankly I think the deck is in a really rough spot. Things were business as usual until WAR released and unleashed teferi and narset. Esper has always had a problem dealing with resolved planeswalkers, but prior to WAR they weren’t that ubiquitous. Now basically any blue midrange deck is probably jamming at least 4 blue planeswalkers and esper’s inability to deal with resolved walkers evolved from inconvenience to existential crisis. As a result, the thoughtseizes that esper is really built on have a lost a ton of value compared to the red elemental blast effects that jeskai gets. The printing of Oko and Veil of Summer were the last straws and finally pushed my stubborn butt out of esper into jeskai. Black(AKA the kill color) not having a way to kill off resolved walkers is just ridiculous to me, but whatever I guess.
    Esper did get some new toys though, the most notable of which is probably plague engineer. That card is seriously good in creature centric metas. It’s just unfortunate that legacy has now firmly shifted more towards planeswalkers.

    Jeskai Stoneblade:
    This deck didn’t change that much, the biggest difference between 2018 and 2019 jeskai stoneblade is basically the WAR planeswalkers. What did happen is everyone started playing blue planeswalkers, so the power of red blasts went through the roof. IMO, jeskai is the best positioned stoneblade deck if everyone insists on jamming blue planeswalkers.

    UW Stoneblade:
    Honestly I’m confused why people play this deck in a post prismatic vista world. Prismatic vista in my estimation has made 3 color stoneblade decks very stable and has eroded a large chunk of the consistency barrier between 2 and 3 color manabases. I just don’t think the stability of the two color manabase outweighs the benefit of a 3rd color anymore. The deck still seems to put up results though so maybe I’m just talking out my ass.

    Bant Stoneblade:
    I’ve got a feeling that this is probably the best stoneblade variant, but we just don’t know it yet. Oko and Veil are really good cards and they’ve put up decent results already. Once a more optimized bant list gets put together it could give jeskai stoneblade a serious run for the crown.



    Other Random Stuff:

    Narset, Parter of Veils vs Teferi, Time Raveler
    When WAR dropped it was immediately obvious both of these walkers were worthy of maindeck slots. Which was better was more unclear however. Having tested both, I’m now of the belief that Teferi is the better walker. Between shutting down entire lines of play, making all your spells uncounterable, and bouncing problematic permanents he’ll almost always be relevant in some way. Narset on the other hand is a narrower planeswalker, a lot of times she ended up just being an overcosted impulse. Don’t get me wrong, she’s still really good in blue mirrors and worth an inclusion somewhere in any blade deck.
    If I had my way though, these one sided walkers would never have been printed. But can’t undo it now and you’d be pretty foolish to not play either of these guys.

    Sword of Fire and Ice vs Sword of Feast and Famine
    When it comes to a 3rd piece of equipment I’ve seen a lot of very successful decklists run either one of these. I started the year on Sword of Fire and Ice liking it for the same reasons basically everyone else does, it oozes value. Having said that, I asked a Feast and Famine pilot about his selection and liked his logic enough to try it. Basically I found what he said was true. Batterskull and Jitte are already pretty fantastic in creature matchups so no help needed in that department. The third piece of equipment is really all about killing combo decks. Fire and Ice vs combo does have some problems, tapping down 3 mana to equip the sword is a pretty dangerous shields down moment. And even if you do connect it’s far from guaranteed that the card you draw is useful. Feast and Famine on the other hand doesn’t give a combo opponent any windows. The three mana equip cost is undone once the creature connects. And forcing a discard out of your opponent while simultaneously passing the turn fully untapped puts the combo player in a much more frightening position.


    Favorite Discovery:
    Before legacy one of my favorite cards was gifts ungiven. The act of handing opponents an unwinnable choice is something I’ve always enjoyed. It will then come as no surprise that I love me some intuition, but I haven’t found a good way to play it. Then Anzi paired intuition with sevinne’s reclamation and finally handed me a way to play intuition without being laughed out of the room. Intuition/Sevinne’s Reclamation can end value wars on the spot and is how I’m currently choosing to win my grindier matchups. To be fair though, Sevinne’s Reclamation on its own is probably good enough, but I love intuition enough to play it regardless.

    Most Underrated Card:
    I think brazen borrower should have a home in stoneblade. Delver has already accepted the newcomer with open arms. The bounce ability has bought me the time needed to turn the corner more than a few times, and in the late game it becomes another evasive body that can carry equipment. It not being legendary also pushed it over the top of vendilion clique. Vendilion clique is powerful but being legendary generally restricted to a 1 of, which makes it unreliable. There’s a ton of games you’ll want it but just won’t find it.

    Here’s the list I left 2019 with, I’m sure it will evolve going forward.
    Here’s to another year of legacy!
    Thanks for the recap, very interesting list!

    Though I am not a big fan of running 61 cards, what would be the cut to 60?

    Also very interested in knowing the reason behind 2 ponders/2 preordain split instead of 4x ponder.

    Also the lack of council’s in the entire 75 is interesting as well.

    Thanks!

  6. #346
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    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by First_Revenge View Post
    As a new year’s thing, here’s a mini 2019 retrospective of my year with stoneblade. It’s more a collection of my thoughts than anything so take them for what they’re worth or discuss them below.

    Esper Stoneblade:
    I started off the year on Esper Stoneblade, and frankly I think the deck is in a really rough spot. Things were business as usual until WAR released and unleashed teferi and narset. Esper has always had a problem dealing with resolved planeswalkers, but prior to WAR they weren’t that ubiquitous. Now basically any blue midrange deck is probably jamming at least 4 blue planeswalkers and esper’s inability to deal with resolved walkers evolved from inconvenience to existential crisis. As a result, the thoughtseizes that esper is really built on have a lost a ton of value compared to the red elemental blast effects that jeskai gets. The printing of Oko and Veil of Summer were the last straws and finally pushed my stubborn butt out of esper into jeskai. Black(AKA the kill color) not having a way to kill off resolved walkers is just ridiculous to me, but whatever I guess.
    Esper did get some new toys though, the most notable of which is probably plague engineer. That card is seriously good in creature centric metas. It’s just unfortunate that legacy has now firmly shifted more towards planeswalkers.

    Jeskai Stoneblade:
    This deck didn’t change that much, the biggest difference between 2018 and 2019 jeskai stoneblade is basically the WAR planeswalkers. What did happen is everyone started playing blue planeswalkers, so the power of red blasts went through the roof. IMO, jeskai is the best positioned stoneblade deck if everyone insists on jamming blue planeswalkers.

    UW Stoneblade:
    Honestly I’m confused why people play this deck in a post prismatic vista world. Prismatic vista in my estimation has made 3 color stoneblade decks very stable and has eroded a large chunk of the consistency barrier between 2 and 3 color manabases. I just don’t think the stability of the two color manabase outweighs the benefit of a 3rd color anymore. The deck still seems to put up results though so maybe I’m just talking out my ass.

    Bant Stoneblade:
    I’ve got a feeling that this is probably the best stoneblade variant, but we just don’t know it yet. Oko and Veil are really good cards and they’ve put up decent results already. Once a more optimized bant list gets put together it could give jeskai stoneblade a serious run for the crown.



    Other Random Stuff:

    Narset, Parter of Veils vs Teferi, Time Raveler
    When WAR dropped it was immediately obvious both of these walkers were worthy of maindeck slots. Which was better was more unclear however. Having tested both, I’m now of the belief that Teferi is the better walker. Between shutting down entire lines of play, making all your spells uncounterable, and bouncing problematic permanents he’ll almost always be relevant in some way. Narset on the other hand is a narrower planeswalker, a lot of times she ended up just being an overcosted impulse. Don’t get me wrong, she’s still really good in blue mirrors and worth an inclusion somewhere in any blade deck.
    If I had my way though, these one sided walkers would never have been printed. But can’t undo it now and you’d be pretty foolish to not play either of these guys.

    Sword of Fire and Ice vs Sword of Feast and Famine
    When it comes to a 3rd piece of equipment I’ve seen a lot of very successful decklists run either one of these. I started the year on Sword of Fire and Ice liking it for the same reasons basically everyone else does, it oozes value. Having said that, I asked a Feast and Famine pilot about his selection and liked his logic enough to try it. Basically I found what he said was true. Batterskull and Jitte are already pretty fantastic in creature matchups so no help needed in that department. The third piece of equipment is really all about killing combo decks. Fire and Ice vs combo does have some problems, tapping down 3 mana to equip the sword is a pretty dangerous shields down moment. And even if you do connect it’s far from guaranteed that the card you draw is useful. Feast and Famine on the other hand doesn’t give a combo opponent any windows. The three mana equip cost is undone once the creature connects. And forcing a discard out of your opponent while simultaneously passing the turn fully untapped puts the combo player in a much more frightening position.


    Favorite Discovery:
    Before legacy one of my favorite cards was gifts ungiven. The act of handing opponents an unwinnable choice is something I’ve always enjoyed. It will then come as no surprise that I love me some intuition, but I haven’t found a good way to play it. Then Anzi paired intuition with sevinne’s reclamation and finally handed me a way to play intuition without being laughed out of the room. Intuition/Sevinne’s Reclamation can end value wars on the spot and is how I’m currently choosing to win my grindier matchups. To be fair though, Sevinne’s Reclamation on its own is probably good enough, but I love intuition enough to play it regardless.

    Most Underrated Card:
    I think brazen borrower should have a home in stoneblade. Delver has already accepted the newcomer with open arms. The bounce ability has bought me the time needed to turn the corner more than a few times, and in the late game it becomes another evasive body that can carry equipment. It not being legendary also pushed it over the top of vendilion clique. Vendilion clique is powerful but being legendary generally restricted to a 1 of, which makes it unreliable. There’s a ton of games you’ll want it but just won’t find it.

    Here’s the list I left 2019 with, I’m sure it will evolve going forward.
    Here’s to another year of legacy!
    the bant section has tested blue green white for a long time. The printing of plauge engineer makes tnn suck and makes noble suck. It also fails to kill the cheap walkers

  7. #347
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    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    Here’s my work in progress:

    19 lands:
    9 fetch
    1 volcanic island
    1 tundra
    1 plateau
    1 mystic sanctuary
    3 snow-covered island
    2 snow-covered plains
    1 snow-covered mountain

    4 arcum’s Astrolabe
    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    4 force of will
    2 counterbalance
    4 swords to plowshares
    1 lightning bolt
    1 council’s judgment
    1 tithe
    1 pyroblast
    4 dreadhorde arcanist
    4 stoneforge mystic
    1 batterskull
    1 sword of feast and famine// fire and ice
    1 true-name nemesis
    2 Narset, Parter of veils
    2 Teferi, Time Raveler

    Sideboard still being worked out.

    It’s a lower CMC Aggro-Control list, with a fire and forget sort of build. The singletons work well with Arcanist, and Tithe is actually a decent form of ramp. Could be something else though.

  8. #348
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    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by wcm8 View Post
    Here’s my work in progress:

    19 lands:
    9 fetch
    1 volcanic island
    1 tundra
    1 plateau
    1 mystic sanctuary
    3 snow-covered island
    2 snow-covered plains
    1 snow-covered mountain

    4 arcum’s Astrolabe
    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    4 force of will
    2 counterbalance
    4 swords to plowshares
    1 lightning bolt
    1 council’s judgment
    1 tithe
    1 pyroblast
    4 dreadhorde arcanist
    4 stoneforge mystic
    1 batterskull
    1 sword of feast and famine// fire and ice
    1 true-name nemesis
    2 Narset, Parter of veils
    2 Teferi, Time Raveler

    Sideboard still being worked out.

    It’s a lower CMC Aggro-Control list, with a fire and forget sort of build. The singletons work well with Arcanist, and Tithe is actually a decent form of ramp. Could be something else though.
    What are your thoughts on Sword of X&Y over jitte? To enable better arcanist synergy/get him through in combat?
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  9. #349
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    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    What are your thoughts on Sword of X&Y over jitte? To enable better arcanist synergy/get him through in combat?
    Yeah, it’s basically that.

    It could be Sword of Fire and Ice instead; but I like how Feast & Famine is actually useful against combo and control decks by forcing discard.

    The deck is already pretty good against aggro by nature of its removal package.

    The other important thing a Sword does is make Arcanist or Mystic valid threats on their own, and it gives them protection from GREEN (Oko), basically Red (by nature of being 4 toughness now), and Black is useful in some instances as well.

    A token generating creature, e.g. Young Pyromancer or Monastery Mentor might work well in this kind of deck too.

    Tithe *could* just be the 20th Land, but this deck curves out at 3 and doesn’t really need a ton of lands beyond that to operate effectively.

    Tithe is probably the weirdest card in the list, but think of it as a sort of pseudo Ramp spell that can combo with Arcanist and help thin your deck of lands/improve future Brainstorms. Could just be something else though.

  10. #350
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    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    Changes to earlier list:

    -1 Arcum’s Astrolabe
    -1 Tithe
    +1 Land Tax
    +1 Umezawa’s Jitte

    Current sideboard:
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Blood Moon
    1 Vandalblast
    1 Fragmentize
    1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Rest In Peace
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Grafdigger’s Cage
    1 Pithing Needle


    Tithe is cute; whereas Land Tax (if resolved early) is *broken*. But it’s kind of like Sylvan Library: game-changing in the right circumstances, but not as useful in multiples.

    I don’t think this deck needs Astrolabe as badly as some decks lean hard on it, but I suppose you could cut something for the 4th copy somewhere.

    Jitte just adds more repeatable small critter removal, and if resolved basically can win the game against decks like Elves, DnT, Infect, etc. Plus you want something to deal with 1/1 tokens of various types, not to mention all of the various Coatl and Strix running about.

    The sideboard is fairly straightforward, with some cards chosen to deal with specific DtB and others just filling in the ‘all comers’ aspect.

    Legacy is in such major flux, that it’s hard to really say what an ideal sideboard would look like. Although, given the deck’s ability to lean in on the power of Arcanist, choosing 1 cmc spells (e.g. Fragmentize, Vandalblast) makes a lot of sense.

    There are cards I’d definitely consider running: Grim Lavamancer; Ensnaring Bridge; perhaps some bigger planeswalkers against control decks (e.g. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar). Basically, I’d suggest if you test out this list, to modify the sideboard for your local metagame instead of just blindly copying my current selection.

  11. #351
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    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    Bosh N Roll recently brought this back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Yyp803A8A
    4-1 League
    Beat 4c ThrabenU brew, GWb Maverick Depths, 8cast, Lands. Lost to Rw Painter.

    Compared to his UWr Standstill decks, I really prefer this manabase. It looks much more stable while still casting the same key UWr spells. It shows in the league. He almost always has perfect mana, doesn't get mana screwed, is able to curve out and deploy tools smoothly, and dodges nonbasic hate. It's probably safe to add 1 Karakas and/or 1 Otawara, Soaring City.


    //Lands: 20
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Prismatic Vista
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island
    6 Island
    2 Plains
    1 Mountain

    //Spells: 21
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Prismatic Ending
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Day's Undoing

    //Planeswalkers: 8
    4 Narset, Parter of Veils
    2 Teferi, Time Raveler
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    //Creatures: 8
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    //Equipment: 2
    1 Batterskull
    1 Kaldra Compleat

    //Enchantments: 1
    1 Back to Basics

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Force of Negation
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 End the Festivities
    2 Meltdown
    2 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Sword of Feast and Famine


    The 1 Spell Pierce seems sus for a control deck. Maybe that should be Minor Misstep or Force of Negation? This looks like a good deck for 1-of Sevinne's Reclamation too.

  12. #352
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    Re: [Deck] UWx Stoneblade

    8x PW is egregious, and uh I guess the plan is to scoop to
    Thassa? One positive thing is that it is clearly made to troll Uro midrange...but decks like Blade provide a play experience somewhere between un-fun and skill-less particularly when they run into decks with the same staples (Ponder/BS/Plow/Ending/PWs) who don't give you real Plow targets. Meanwhile you find yourself in a "mirror" where opponent gets to ruin you with Plow. I can't think of a worse play experience than running this deck into UWr [insert 2 mana not-dude; e.g. Standstill, Counterbalance, Staff].

    So while it's great that Uro midrange will lose to exile effects, the Karakas [missing], Narset spam, and B2B [which will not work vs other decks with more Boseju, FoV, Haywire Mite]...at the end of the day Uro's Endurance + Dress Down is more resistant to combo and Saga, it has built-in anti-discard [Uro], and ability to overwhelm non-exile kill spells [Uro] leading to a deck with a better matchup profile vs the format.

    Gotta be very careful about a deck like this in a small room, because you will hate out Uro midrange...and once you lose your Uro shields out of that room, you're asking for the discard + Sheoldred's Edict vs UWr Staff reaction. The maindeck is clearly meant to farm Uro, while the SB hits Elves, Delver, artifact spam, Entomb/SnT Grisel. Glaring flaws vs 2cmc not-dudes [except Library], Thassa, Saga, dubious vs non-Glimpse Elves, questionable vs Depths [coming with Stage copy Saga], Post, and somewhere between tedious to not great vs DnT.

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