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Thread: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

  1. #181

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Esper Mentor Blade:

    Maindeck (60)
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Vendilion Clique
    1 Dragonlord Ojutai
    1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Force of Will
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Collective Brutality
    3 Lingering Souls
    1 Supreme Verdict
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Batterskull
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Island
    2 Plains
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Scrubland
    2 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Swamp
    1 Karakas
    1 Marsh Flats

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
    2 Flusterstorm
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Disenchant
    1 Supreme Verdict
    1 Force of Will
    2 Engineered Plague
    You call it Mentor Blade but I don't see Mentors. Just that bad that you cut them and didn't name swap or the list is incorrect?

  2. #182
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    I see no reason to run Mentor over TNN without Probe, unfortunately. Mentor still has a home in Miracles, but it doesn't make sense in an Esper Stoneblade shell anymore.
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    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  3. #183
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRuler View Post
    You call it Mentor Blade but I don't see Mentors. Just that bad that you cut them and didn't name swap or the list is incorrect?
    Yeah I edited an old list. Ignore the name I'm lazy. I do think Mentor versions might have some play. Unearth might be "good"
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  4. #184

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    I played this list for my first post-ban event yesterday. It's my normal list except I went -1 Path to Exile +1 Manriki-Gusari in the sideboard since I expected a lot of taxes (there was, but I never paired against it).

    Round 1 vs UR Delver (2-1) (with Chain Lightning and Stormchaser Mage):
    G1 - I don't remember too much, but I know he won the die roll, dazed my t1 ponder, and flipped his delver blind. I fell too far behind to win and conceded before I showed what I was on.
    Sideboard: -2 Back to Basics, -1 Supreme Verdict, -2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor, +2 Meddling Mage, +2 Path to Exile, +1 Ethersworn Canonist. I boarded out jaces since it seems poor vs a deck running ~8 lightning bolts plus hasty creatures
    G2 - I swords'd his t1 delver and played a stoneforge to get jitte. I ended up with a meddling mage on Lightning Bolt (after which I got chain lightninged 3 times) and ended up winning with like 3 counters left on the jitte. The turn before I won, I played 2nd Meddling Mage on Snapcaster Mage (which it turns out he doesn't run) - I think it might have been better to go for redundancy and also named lightning bolt.
    G3 - He went turn 1 fetch into volc into delver. I wasteland his volc (he hadn't seen any yet this match) and he's kept on no lands for turns 2 and 3, after which I just have too much of a lead for him to fight back through.

    Round 2 vs Depths (1-2):
    G1 - I'm on the draw without a force, and he lands a t1 chalice on 1. My Karakas keeps him at bay for a long time, but eventually he starts dredging loam until he finds a wasteland. I eventually just die to Marit Lage.
    Sideboard: -1 Umezawa's Jitte, -1 Sword of Fire and Ice, -1 Batterskull, -4 Stoneforge Mystic, -1 Supreme Verdict, -1 Force of Will, -1 Ponder, +1 Back to Basics, +2 Disenchant, +3 Surgical Extraction, +2 Path to Exile, +2 Meddling Mage. I'm pretty sure my board strategy isn't 100% correct here, but I just rolled with it.
    G2 - This game ends up being a big grind. He taps out to loam t2, which I surgical. He gets a Liliana, the Last Hope out, but I get a Jace out to match pressure. Lili gets to 6 counters before I've brainstormed enough to find the council's judgment. Once that happens, I start fatesealing him out of the game - he gets marit lage once, but I have the swords and he concedes to Jace at 13 counters
    G3 - I mull to 4 and have to force a t2 chalice. This was not a win for me.

    Round 3 vs Goblins (2-1):
    G1 - I win the die roll and open with ponder. He has the lackey t1, but I have stoneforge fetch jitte. He plays chieftain his t3 and swings with the 2/2 lackey - I end up playing a naked snapcaster and trading. On my turn I stoneforge in SoFI and equip, praying to just dodge Warren Instigator. Unfortunately, he has it, but all he cheats in are 2 ringleaders. On my turn, I play and equip jitte, and then swing, killing the chieftan and the instigator with my equipment. He can never catch up from here, and I close it out in short order.
    Sideboard: -2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor, -2 Back to Basics, -1 Spell Pierce, -2 Force of Will, +2 Meddling Mage, +2 Path to Exile, +1 Supreme Verdict, +2 Disenchant
    G2 - I don't remember much of this - I just know I had to force a t1 Instigator and eventually died to getting overwhelmed.
    G3 - This game ended up being pretty grindy. Eventually, I get to play verdict out with a Gideon at 2 counters, and he ends up providing enough value. Also, a meddling mage on Goblin Matron ends up being a powerhouse, since he had 2 sitting in his hand (and the turn he died, his vial had only gotten to 2).

    Round 4 vs High Tide (2-0):
    G1 - I don't see much by turn 2 (only basic Island and Brainstorm), so my stoneforge finds SoFI. Once he forces my true-name t3 pitching High Tide, I know what I'm up against. I have a t4 True name to keep the pressure up, and he has to try and combo off pretty quickly. I attempt to force his first High Tide, but he ends up countering it with a pretty interesting line that involved playing High tide, turnabout, cunning wish for pact of negation. At this point though, he's down too much mana to go off after his Meditate and scoops it up.
    Sideboard: -1 Supreme Verdict, -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Umezawa's Jitte, -2 Back to Basics, +2 Meddling Mage, +3 Surgical Extraction, +1 Ethersworn Canonist, +2 Disenchant.
    G2 - I land a t2 stoneforge finding Batterskull. When he taps out t3 for cunning wish, I surgical his brainstorm and see a hand of Turnabout, Force, Time Spiral, Flusterstorm. I end up spell piercing the wish, to which we trade forces. He ends up having to use another force on Meddling Mage, at which point he's too many cards behind. I did end up finding out that he boarded in Defense Grid, making me feel justified in bringing in the Disenchants.

    Overall, I finished 3-1, and took 5th (Sadly, the bigger payout is to top 4). I walked away with my money back.

  5. #185

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Hello everybody,

    With the latest bannings, it looks like mana denial is back on the menu, and I feel like a UW deck can be pretty strong at doing it.

    I am looking to play a Stoneblade-like list with 4 Stifle, 4 Snapcaster, and 4 Wasteland, but am unsure of what I should include.

    For example, since I'm going for early interaction and wasteland, I feel like I don't really want 3+ drops, then maybe I should be playing UW delver?

    Does anybody of you have some experience playing Stoneblade with Stifles?

    Thanks a lot for your help.

  6. #186
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    If you're going the Stifle/Waste route, I would consider looking into UWR Delver.
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  7. #187

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Eventhough wasteland is great, being a zero mana stone rain, it also hampers your mana development, making it harder to play three- and four drops. The same goes for daze.
    Stifle on the other hand doesnt cost a land drop and is "Something to do with your mana" in the early game being a midrange/control deck.
    It is possible that T1 Stifle the fetch into T2 SFM into T3 TNN is a good play. The stifle setting opponent on back foot paving the way for the following plays.
    Stifle must of course be coupled with pierces and flusterstorms.

  8. #188
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    Eventhough wasteland is great, being a zero mana stone rain, it also hampers your mana development, making it harder to play three- and four drops. The same goes for daze.
    Stifle on the other hand doesnt cost a land drop and is "Something to do with your mana" in the early game being a midrange/control deck.
    It is possible that T1 Stifle the fetch into T2 SFM into T3 TNN is a good play. The stifle setting opponent on back foot paving the way for the following plays.
    Stifle must of course be coupled with pierces and flusterstorms.
    As someone who played a lot of Stoneblade back before Miracles and Deathrite Shaman, when RUG Delver and Maverick were all the rage, I think this analysis is right. UW Stoneblade does not make for a great mana denial deck because it's primiarly a control or control-aggro (at best) deck that wants to hit its land drops. You're not playing super-cheap threats like Delver of Secrets, after which you can sit back on two lands and use the others to wasteland your opponents, Daze their magic, or Brainstorm away like RUG does. You're also not playing mana accelerants (Noble Hierarch, GSZ, Knight of the Reliquary for the late game) like Maverick does.

    With the control path comes the inevitable Jace the Mind Sculptor (I mean, obviously you would drop Jaces if you're looking to play Stifle, etc., but Jace is actually pretty good), and he costs 4 mana (5 if playing around Daze). Snapcaster Mage costs more than 2 mana if you want more than an ambush viper. Verdict, etc. Losing that land drop in order to wasteland your opponent is almost always a bad move, except in very specific circumstance (usually: you think they're mana-screwed and you can keep them out of the game, or they have a very problematic land you need to get rid of, like Grove of the Burnwillows.)

    In summary, IMO if you want to play mana denial, RUG Delver seems absurdly well positioned for that (it always has been); if you want play mana denial and Stoneforge Mystic, then Death and Taxes is better at that game. I'm skeptical of Wasteland altogether in Stoneblade (and certainly of 4 of them), and would be looking at more the Back To Basics route, Mishra's Factory, or playing a couple of my own utility lands, or just more basics and fetches in those slots.

  9. #189

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    I see, thanks a lot for the answers.

    The appeal, to me, was more about playing Stifle with Snapcaster. Snap wants as many 1-mana interaction as possible, and I feel like Stifle should complement it well, like Swords does.

    I'll continue searching for a good Stifle Snap list, and maybe it's indeed UWR delver instead!

  10. #190

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Is the maverick deck 50/50 against esper stoneblade? What fair decks are 50/50 against esper stoneblade? I'm trying to build another deck so my friend can play legacy with me.

  11. #191

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
    I played this list for my first post-ban event yesterday. It's my normal list except I went -1 Path to Exile +1 Manriki-Gusari in the sideboard since I expected a lot of taxes (there was, but I never paired against it).
    What is the reason you are playing 4 wasteland and 2 back to basics? Isn't that a bit overkill and makes your mana worse, playing only 18 lands (If you don't count wasteland as a land)?

  12. #192

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by kramer733 View Post
    Is the maverick deck 50/50 against esper stoneblade? What fair decks are 50/50 against esper stoneblade? I'm trying to build another deck so my friend can play legacy with me.

    Should be close to 50/50. Honestly, almost any deck is pretty 50/50 with esper stoneblade. Noteably i think big mana decks have a huge advantage though.


    With all the brewing going around I took a look at my list to see what I could adjust. I eventually landed on this list. I really wanted to test brightling and spellstutter sprite. The sprite performed very well, but due to matchups brightling never had a chance to shine.
    Lands-19
    2 Island
    2 Plains
    1 Swamp
    3 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Marsh Flats

    Creatures-15
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    3 True Name Nemesis
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Brightling

    Spells-22
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Force of Will
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Ponder
    2 Collective Brutality
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Councilís Judgment
    1 Preordain


    Artifacts-3
    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawaís Jitte
    1 Engineered Explosives

    Planeswalkers-2

    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor


    Sideboard:
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Zealous Persecution
    2 Back to Basics
    2 Meddling Mage
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Disenchant
    1 Thoughtseize
    1 Force of Will
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce

    Match 1: Bizzaro Storm??(2-1 Win)
    Game 1:
    I have no idea what heís on and my opener is very open ended, a triple brainstorm, 3 lands, and swords. His opening plays confuse the hell out of me. He leads on a scrubland into thoughtseize taking a STP from my hand. Iím thinking deadguy ale. I just land pass, and then he plays watery grave, so esper deathís shadow? But then he puts a griselbrand in yard so I now know heís reanimator of some flavor. He fooled me badly at this point, Iíd been brainstorming to get critter hate, not reanimator hate. He eventually gets his magus of the mind combo to go off and I force him to play it out so I can see how it works. His combo ends with me getting tendriled for a lot.

    Game 2:
    Okay, well that was unorthodox but itís a graveyard deck like any other so I assumed my plan didnít change much.
    -2 Brightling
    -1 Umezawaís Jitte
    -1 Jace the Mind Sculptor
    -1 Engineered Explosive
    -1 Councilís Judgment
    -2 Swords to Plowshares
    -1 True Name Nemesis
    +2 Surgical Extraction
    +2 Meddling Mage
    +1 Thoughtseize
    +1 Force of Will
    +1 Containment Priest
    +1 Flusterstorm
    +1 Spell Pierce

    I think this game his deck either imploded or he missed a line of play. Early game I have thoughtseize/FoW/spellstutter to keep him from doing anything productive. We go T4 and Iím in a pretty good position. Heís only got 2 lands in hand and a griselbrand in yard. My hand is good, Iíve got jace, my 4th land, and my draw for turn is containment priest. I can either windmill slam the jace or hold back for a containment priest. I decide to put him in a do or die position and slam jace. Once jace resolves I have another choice. I could brainstorm, but Iím not sure what I could possibly find. FoW+ blue card would be ideal since I donít have the mana for pierce/fluster. But I only have containment priest in hand and Iíve already used 2 FoW. It just doesnít seem likely Iíll find anything good. The +2 isnít spectacular either, he has a fetchland in play so no matter what heíll have a live draw to find a reanimation spell. I opt to +2 him and bottom a silence, in retrospect I should have brainstormed. In either case his next draw is of course shallow grave. He blinks grisel in, punches me for 7, draws 14 cards and fizzles, apparently he was missing firemindís acquisition to tutor a wincon from his SB. I have no idea how the deck works, but I probably shouldnít have won this one.

    Game 3:
    I mulligan into a decent hand. 2 Lands, brainstorm, pierce, SFM, thoughtseize. My scry on top is surgical. Opponentís opener is a thoughtseize taking pierce. I retaliate with a thoughtseize of my own, I see griselbrand, careful study, and some instant speed reanimation spells. Reanimation working at instant speed is new to me, I opt to take the griselbrand and extract it before his reanimate spells pop online. From there it isnít particularly close. I get a meddling mage naming shallow grave to turn off a lot of his reanimate spells. SFM starts apply pressure and the game closes out.

    Match 2: Dredge (2-1 Win)
    Game 1:
    I know heís on dredge, I figure a FoW, pierce, thoughtseize hand is likely as good as itís going to get for me. Heís on the play, I FoW his opening LED, but he immediately follows up with breakthrough putting a ton of dredgers in the yard. I give it another turn in case he fizzles, but the game effectively ended on T0.

    Game 2:
    Exact SB as Match 1. This game goes grindy. I hold off his early game with spellstutters/countermagic/thoughtseize, but on T3 or so eventually he manages to resolve a LED and place some dredgers in the yard. He starts going off, but he canít attack profitably since killing a spellstutter would nuke his bridges. SFM comes down and launches a batterskull into play. I use brutality to kill my own SFM to nuke his bridges anyway. Batterskull gets equipped to spellstutter and eventually puts the game away.

    Game 3:
    FoW, surgical and some other stuff, itís definitely keepable. He starts off a lot like Game 1, I FoW his opening LED, but he casts faithless looting and puts troll/thug in the yard. For lack of a better option I surgically extract his troll. His next two or three dredges are pretty anemic, taking troll hurt him way more than I thought it would. Batterskull gets cheated into play and puts the game away.

    Match 3: Infect(Draw)
    Game 1:
    He starts on a glistener elf telling me whats up right away. He has 3 or 4 infecters, I deal with them, until he plays a blinkmoth nexus. Iím out of removal and thin on countermagic. He goes off through a Flusterstorm and KOs me with a become immense.

    Game 2:
    -1 Councilís Judgment
    -2 Jace the Mind Sculptor
    -2 Brightling
    -1 True Name Nemesis
    2 Zealous Persecution
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Disenchant
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce

    Spellstutter sprite has its day in the sun, it stops 2 crop rotations cold. The rest of my removal suite is enough to deal with his infect creatures so he never gets going. SFM gets batterskull and clocks him out very quickly.

    Game 3:
    Ends up being a draw on time. Opponent goes down to 4 cards and actually ends up being able to do lethal damage to me off a noble hierarch+2x invigorate+berserk. I have a Flusterstorm for the berserk though so he just fizzles. Unfortunately we were on turns at this point and I didnít have enough time to finish the job. Iím convinced I would have won if the game continued though.

    I still have to test brightling, Iím reasonably convinced itís a great card for us, but the matchups werenít conducive to testing it. Spellstutter sprite felt really good, it did way more than I gave it credit for. It definitely earned its keep this week.

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