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Thread: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

  1. #161
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Brightling seems terrible. It is mana intensive in both the white mana it requires and the amount of mana necessary to deploy it. It doesn't carry a weapon as efficiently as true-name nemesis. It does not block as effectively as true-name nemesis. It is cute conceptually and on its face but grossly underpowered in actuality

  2. #162

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    It's not underpowered, it's ill-suited to this deck.

  3. #163
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    It's not underpowered, it's ill-suited to this deck.
    Brightling is a converted mana cost 3 creature that does less or similar things worst than any other three drop. That in and of itself is being under powered. Examples of 3 mana creatures that have a greater impact for 3 mana, thus not being under powered: mentor, leovold, true-name nemesis, etc.

    This isnít to say any of these creatures or brightling serve the same role, but to illustrate the type of impact a 3 srop creature needs to have. Brightling lacks this type of impact for its cost

  4. #164

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by QKisMyName View Post
    Brightling is a converted mana cost 3 creature that does less or similar things worst than any other three drop. That in and of itself is being under powered. Examples of 3 mana creatures that have a greater impact for 3 mana, thus not being under powered: mentor, leovold, true-name nemesis, etc.

    This isnít to say any of these creatures or brightling serve the same role, but to illustrate the type of impact a 3 srop creature needs to have. Brightling lacks this type of impact for its cost
    You are entitled to your opinion. There were 0 facts in that last post (other than it being 3cmc). Not a convincing argument.

    Brightling is being tested by us DnT players, and to good success already. I say again, it's only ill-suited for your deck. It's a house in DnT.

    If I am misunderstanding your post, I apologize, it's somewhat poorly articulated but I think I got what you were trying to say.

  5. #165
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion. There were 0 facts in that last post (other than it being 3cmc). Not a convincing argument.

    Brightling is being tested by us DnT players, and to good success already. I say again, it's only ill-suited for your deck. It's a house in DnT.

    If I am misunderstanding your post, I apologize, it's somewhat poorly articulated but I think I got what you were trying to say.
    This is the stoneblade section so it should be obvious stoneblade is the context, not DnT

  6. #166
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    It's definitely better in a deck where you can bounce and replay it (with Vial) for free. Here there are better options especially when you get blue. I feel like even Spell Quell might be better here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  7. #167

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by QKisMyName View Post
    My statement was made within the context of stoneblade. As such, your statement that brightling is ill-suited for stoneblade only substantiates my position. You state your assertion was made within a stoneblade context yet you included a discussion involving DnT. Any comparisons beyond the context of stoneblade is irrelevant as it is not at issue. I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

    You would lose any battle of wits with me, plain & simple. I would elaborate, but it this isnít the place to further continue.
    They are both stoneblade lists. They are both control decks. They have comparisons and share similarities.

    Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you any more. Good luck on your future endeavors.

  8. #168

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Hey everyone, so I have been playing Infect and BUG stuff for the last three years. I'm interested in a switch and looked at Stoneforge decks. Seeing as how I have all the duals for Bant Deathblade I was wondering everyone's thoughts on the deck. It is better or worse than the other variants? It is worth building?

  9. #169
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Death 'n' Taxes and Stoneblade are not the same kind of decks just for playing stoneforge mystic. They are both control decks but doing it totally different.
    Dnt is creature based (they play around the double amount of creatures) and can use aether vial. that makes brightling viable.

    I don't think it's good enough in Stoneblade decks for some reasons.
    First of all it's mana intensive. dnt has vial to cheat it into play and all the mana up. dnt can play it safely because the deck protects creatures with other creatures and doesn't have to spend mana for spells to do so. you can protect it with mother of runes, flickerwisp or indirectly with thalia because your opponent can't cast enough spells.

    As a control deck we want creatures which can win the game by it's own while we play our game along. Brightling doesn't allow this because we need constant mana to work with it.
    Look at other control decks.
    Miracles has Monastery Mentor. You play Mentor and just by playing your game you get an army of monks and huge creatures. Removal for Mentor? counter it and get another token.
    4c control has Leovold (sometimes with Gurmag Angler etc). Leovold hits for 3 and kills kind of slow by damage but it his ability makes him a win condition. you draw cards only for attempting to remove him or any other permanent and hinders you to find any answers.

    and we have normally True-Name Nemesis. Nemesis hits for 3 like Leovold but unlike leo your opponent just can play against it; cantrips, removal; Nemesis doesn't generate card advantage just by sitting on the battlefield. So, our equipment is important. Nemesis fuels Jitte and triggers Sword of X and Y or is with Batterskull an unraceable killing machine.
    And birghtling ? Can be blocked; you have to bounce it to protect it so you lose an equipped creature. If I have to play another creature than Nemesis I would either go with Mirran Crusader of Geist of Saint Traft.
    Crusader has at least some protection (green and black are quite good) and with double strike some kind of pseudo unblockable.
    Geist has hexproof but can be blocked. on the other hand he is a faster clock with the angel. Another important fact is that he is blue which allows you to pitch him into force of will.
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  10. #170

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by bomberman32 View Post
    Hey everyone, so I have been playing Infect and BUG stuff for the last three years. I'm interested in a switch and looked at Stoneforge decks. Seeing as how I have all the duals for Bant Deathblade I was wondering everyone's thoughts on the deck. It is better or worse than the other variants? It is worth building?
    Bant's very different when it comes to stoneblade. Most variants of UWx stoneblade/deathblade are control/midrange decks where as bant is an old school tempo deck. That's not to say that is a bad trait, it's just very different. You're basically a delver deck that goes "bigger". I think that overall the deck is fine but certainly does have problems in a competitive metagame. I primarily play on MTGO where there is a lot of Miracles/Czech Pile and those matchups are atrocious as Bant. It's not a bad investment though, if you don't like Bant it shouldn't be that hard to transition to other UWx blade variants.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  11. #171

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo900 View Post
    Death 'n' Taxes and Stoneblade are not the same kind of decks just for playing stoneforge mystic. They are both control decks but doing it totally different.
    Dnt is creature based (they play around the double amount of creatures) and can use aether vial. that makes brightling viable.

    I don't think it's good enough in Stoneblade decks for some reasons.
    First of all it's mana intensive. dnt has vial to cheat it into play and all the mana up. dnt can play it safely because the deck protects creatures with other creatures and doesn't have to spend mana for spells to do so. you can protect it with mother of runes, flickerwisp or indirectly with thalia because your opponent can't cast enough spells.

    As a control deck we want creatures which can win the game by it's own while we play our game along. Brightling doesn't allow this because we need constant mana to work with it.
    Look at other control decks.
    Miracles has Monastery Mentor. You play Mentor and just by playing your game you get an army of monks and huge creatures. Removal for Mentor? counter it and get another token.
    4c control has Leovold (sometimes with Gurmag Angler etc). Leovold hits for 3 and kills kind of slow by damage but it his ability makes him a win condition. you draw cards only for attempting to remove him or any other permanent and hinders you to find any answers.

    and we have normally True-Name Nemesis. Nemesis hits for 3 like Leovold but unlike leo your opponent just can play against it; cantrips, removal; Nemesis doesn't generate card advantage just by sitting on the battlefield. So, our equipment is important. Nemesis fuels Jitte and triggers Sword of X and Y or is with Batterskull an unraceable killing machine.
    And birghtling ? Can be blocked; you have to bounce it to protect it so you lose an equipped creature. If I have to play another creature than Nemesis I would either go with Mirran Crusader of Geist of Saint Traft.
    Crusader has at least some protection (green and black are quite good) and with double strike some kind of pseudo unblockable.
    Geist has hexproof but can be blocked. on the other hand he is a faster clock with the angel. Another important fact is that he is blue which allows you to pitch him into force of will.
    Thanks for your deeper analysis, I appreciate that. The point that Brightling still fits best in DnT is a fact, which I also support from the beginning. My greatest doubt of its usage in UWx Stoneblade is absolutely that its too mana intensive for a creature, that should run the game on its own for us, while we have the mana open to cast our control spells. I also see, that it's not an equipment carrier at first sight. As QKisMyName already pointed out "it is cute conceptually and on its face but grossly underpowered in actuality". And in other UWx control variants without the stoneblade package mentor seems still the better choice.

  12. #172

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion. There were 0 facts in that last post (other than it being 3cmc). Not a convincing argument.

    Brightling is being tested by us DnT players, and to good success already. I say again, it's only ill-suited for your deck. It's a house in DnT.

    If I am misunderstanding your post, I apologize, it's somewhat poorly articulated but I think I got what you were trying to say.
    I have to agree with QKisMyName here and just say that the argument for Brightling in a UWx Blade list is poor. The mana is way to intense and power far to underwhelming for it to make it as a 3 drop in our style of deck. Not to say it may not find a home elsewhere but if I were to see Brightling in the mirror I would be stoked to say the least because it isn't very threatening.

  13. #173
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Alright fellas, all done. Don't make me clean up any more of this shit please. Thanks.

  14. #174

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Deathrite Shaman + Gitaxian Probe are now banned. I think this deck just shot up to tier 1 status again.

  15. #175

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by kramer733 View Post
    Deathrite Shaman + Gitaxian Probe are now banned. I think this deck just shot up to tier 1 status again.
    I don't know about tier 1, it's certainly nice for this deck to be playable on MTGO again though. Running into Czech every other match is not a fun experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  16. #176

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by kramer733 View Post
    Deathrite Shaman + Gitaxian Probe are now banned. I think this deck just shot up to tier 1 status again.
    Certain versions of it could possibly Tier 1.

    If I had to guess just straight UW benefitted the most. While I donít know what the format going forward looks like, I do think that mana denial strategies got a ton better. UW blade doesnít need to change its mana base much, its basic heavy build is already pretty resistant to most mana denial except for stifle. UW blade will probably run 4 wasteland going forward since that card is now bonkers. Iím not sure if back to basics gets better or worse. I think that in general a lot of decks are going to have to do a combination of cutting a color, playing more basics, or playing less greedy spells. Or maybe we just get a ton of greedy 3 color shells running around that B2B can hurt? Wait and see I suppose.

    UWR vs UWB is unclear. Both decks have usually been pretty close imo, and it usually ends up coming down to personal preference. Red gets pyroblast and black gets thoughtseize. Which if any is better is just going to depend on whatever meta rises out of this.

    Interestingly if UWBg deathblade survives, it would now be a UWx list right? Iím talking about the 4x DRS 3-4x hierarch builds. You could maybe just slot in 4 birds of paradise and just lean the deck solely on the power of T2 TNN/Leovold. Personally, I donít think itís enough so Iím calling this deck a goner.

  17. #177
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Got UWB sleeved up for Thursday. 3 Lingering Souls, 2 Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Brutality after the "normal" stuff. Also gonna try out cliques over true name in anticipation of combo getting popular. I also am a bit worried about goblins and elves coming up and I want to be able to play engineered plague. I just think black side board cards are better in a more open meta
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  18. #178

    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Got UWB sleeved up for Thursday. 3 Lingering Souls, 2 Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Brutality after the "normal" stuff. Also gonna try out cliques over true name in anticipation of combo getting popular. I also am a bit worried about goblins and elves coming up and I want to be able to play engineered plague. I just think black side board cards are better in a more open meta
    Sounds reasonsble. The red splash is best in a superblue meta. Goblins may actually be a hard deck to beat now.

  19. #179
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Here a Discord invite.
    In this days after ban we talk about Blade

    https://discord.gg/wtehtyY

  20. #180
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    Re: [Primer] UWx Stoneblade

    Fwiw I nailed down a list to start off with. Ojutai and Kambal might be bad, but eh we'll see. 20 lands with Karakas also might be greedy. Might need to go up maybe another dual. I don't like 2 Plains + Karakas, but I think with the list having Judgement and Verdict and Gideon I need 2 plains. I could see maybe cutting the WW color requirements just to be able to go down to 1 plains though by maybe playing like the 3 mana instant Vindicate for non lands and playing a Sorin of some sort main.

    Esper Mentor Blade:

    Maindeck (60)
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Vendilion Clique
    1 Dragonlord Ojutai
    1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Force of Will
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Collective Brutality
    3 Lingering Souls
    1 Supreme Verdict
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Batterskull
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Island
    2 Plains
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Scrubland
    2 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Swamp
    1 Karakas
    1 Marsh Flats

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
    2 Flusterstorm
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Disenchant
    1 Supreme Verdict
    1 Force of Will
    2 Engineered Plague
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

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