Hello, the legacy scene in my area had died out a while ago so I haven't been in it since the original Innistrad set. Back then I was playing The Gate and had a lot of fun with it. I found out there is a legacy tournament nearby and wanted to go to it with my old deck. Is this still a viable option or can it be edited to become a viable option? First, here is the main deck.
Main Board
17x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Wasteland
2x Innocent Blood
3x Victim of Night
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Bitterblossom
3x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Liliana of the Veil
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Dark Confidant
3x Abyssal Persecutor
Partial Sideboard
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Extripate
2x Fairie Macabre
3x Engineered Plague
The deck intends to cripple it's opponent with hand disruption in the early turns and then use it's creatures and jitte to kill opponents while Liliana and hand hate keep the game under control. Removal is mainly sacrifice based in order to be able to get rid of Abyssal Persecutor after he has taken the opponent to 0 with Innocent blood being able to target him as well as most creatures in Legacy. Dark Confidant helps keep the deck aggressive while the low curve keeps him from killing yourself before you've killed your opponent.
This deck was never "top tier" when I played it but was quite capable 5 years ago of winning a local tournament with it's main weakness being burn, which I doubt has gotten to be a much better match-up in recent years. Can this deck still perform it's task, and how can I sharpen it's teeth with more recent set pieces. Also, Phyrexian Obliterator can be substituted for Persecutors if that feels better in current meta, but was usually removed more aggressively by opponents than Persecutor was when I originally played it.
Thank you for your thoughts and opinions in advance.
Obliterator Is much better than persecutor because it's p much just as big, and has a much better ability than persecutor. Also you don't have to kill it to win.
Yeah, I always loved Obliterator, should I swap any of the above spells with that switch requiring less sacrifice effects?
Fatal Push
Won't work without fetchlands.Originally Posted by Mackan
Overall, the metagame in Legacy is much less Tarmogoyf and Counterbalance -oriented than back when The Gate was a more popular deck. Lots more Griselbrand, Emrakul, Show and Tell, Grixis midrange, Elves, Death&Taxes, Death's Shadow, 3-4 color good stuff decks (e.g. Shardless agent, Czech Pile, Leovold decks) and assorted combo decks (Reanimator, ANT, Aluren, Food Chain, Sneaky Show, etc.). I have no idea how "old school" The Gate will do in the current metagame. My initial thought is that probably OK, and you might take a bunch of newer players unfamiliar with the deck by surprise.
Do you have any idea what the meta is expected to be like at the tournament?
Toxic Deluge, Dread of Night and Ratchet Bomb are a few potential SB cards.
EDIT:
Here's a list of commonly played singles across the Legacy metagame currently:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/legacy
EDIT2:
You might find some inspiration for updates from a contemporary Japanese Demon Stompy list. Scroll down for details:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...ews-from-japan
MD Walking Ballista, Mardu Strike Leader, Arxhdemon of Paluano - SB Liliana, the Last Hope might be cards worth considering.
Not sure if this is what you are interested in, but here's a little tempo brew that I've been running which has had some really good results. It's a little less The Gate and a little more Suicide Black. It plays a bit more like a pro-active Delver Threshold deck and splashes green so as to take full advantage of DRS and more importantly Abrupt Decay for Chalice etc... Bone Picker is nuts btw. Eat your heart out Delver of Secrets. The death touch puts him over the top. It packs Cabal Therapy and a ton of removal so as to get him into play early, also Death's Shadow (when above 13 life) just dies when you cast him acting like a Dark Ritual to Bone Picker. Another upside to the deck aside from heavy removal and tempo, is card advantage. So far in my testing it rips Delver variants apart and goes 50/50 with BR Reanimator. I haven't tested it against everything yet but its fun and worth checking out.
//Beatz (19)
4x Bone Picker
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Death's Shadow
3x Bloodghast
//Removal (11)
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Dismember
3x Fatal Push
2x Snuff Out
//Disruption (12)
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Hymn to Tourach
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
//Mana (18)
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Polluted Delta
3x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland
//Sideboard (15)
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Abrupt Decay
3x Engineered Plague
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Dread of Night
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Golgari Charm
"WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca
I know there will be at least one leovald control, dredge, reanimator, and grizzlebees(Grizzlebrand) deck there. Probably a fish and an elf. Delvers for sure. Just going off a couple decks that appeared last time they did this according to a friend that went.
I'm also not opposed to trying a different build with a similar flavor. My desire is to play with my favorite card from when I first got into MTG, Hymn to Tourach, and my favorite card from Phyrexians (my favorite lore) Obliterator. My main constraints is a total lack of dual lands and only having 4 BW fetches. Other than that I don't mind bringing in a new shell to be successful with these two cards. Also, are there fliers that Nighthawk needs to be there for? Or would Gifted Aetherborn be better for 1 mana less?
Delver of Secrets, Flickerwisp, Griselbrand and Emrakul are probably the most common fliers to make an appearance. Vampire Nighthawk isn't particularly exciting against any of them. Most decks seem to favor playing Gurmag Angler over Tombstalker, even though IMO Tombstalker would be great in the current metagame.
Laser Brains SB seems like a great starting point for building a SB for this meta. You will want a bunch of Surgicals vs Reanimator and Dredge. Engineered Plague and Toxic Deluge vs Elf and Fish. Toxic Deluge is also great vs Delvers and Leovold. Ratchet Bomb vs Elf, fish, random tokens and as catch-all vs Ensnaring Bridge (which people expecting a Griselbrand heavy meta might be running). Pithing Needle vs Griselbrand, Sneak Attack and random planeswalkers.
Instead of the GB cards, you may want to run 1x Grafdigger's Cage and 1x additional Instant Edict effect or 1x Marsh Casualties.
Alright, I have or have access to plague, needle, bomb and deluge. Would Extripate work for the Surgicals, it's the one card I don't have access to. Also, I have a friend that can gear me in GB duals and fetches if that route feels better. I mainly just want to go in there with a chance to win, but also be able to play Hymn and Obliterator, Hymn being the must have card but also wanting to play obliterator. If that seems like the better color option what do we change?
Reanimator is playing Chancellor of the Annex nowadays. Revealing it from their opening hand can counter your t1 Extirpate. Br Reanimator lists are also super explosive t1 on the play, so a "free" spell t1 on the draw is super useful. You could consider running Faerie Macabre if you have access to it. It's great versus contemporary Reanimator builds, although not as versatile as Surgical or Extirpate against other decks, such as Dredge. Some kind of a mix between Faerie Macabre, Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb and Extirpate should also work. When choosing only one card in multiples, Surgical is typically the best "all-around" option compared to this list, though. 4x Leyline of the Void is also an option since you mentioned both Reanimator and Dredge in the meta.
Running Fetchlands will allow you to run
- Deathrite Shaman (which is mana acceleration + a non combat win condition in the same package!)
- Bloodghast
and/or - Fatal Push
Almost no one is playing Stifle or Leonin Arbiter, so the main drawback of fetches is the life loss. DRS can offset this life loss with access to green.
BG duals give you access to
- DRS life gain
- Abrupt Decay
- Additional SB options
- Niche singleton card options from "old school The Rock" strategy, e.g. Pernicious Deed and Maelstrom Pulse
...but opens you up to
- Wasteland
- Back to Basics
- Blood Moon
- Price of Progress
Abrupt Decay is not as great and not as necessary in the post SDT ban meta than it used to be when CounterTop Miracles ruled the metagame. But it's still a versatile, uncounterable removal card, and typically better in the cmc2 removal slot than what monoblack has to offer.
The main reason why The Gate disappeared from Legacy meta in the first place was CounterTop Terminus becoming the most popular and most powerful deck. A single Terminus would ruin a creature based board permanently. Swords and CounterTop soft lock made sure the creature based deck never recovered.
Now, post SDT ban, I feel that The Gate is once again a valid deck choice in the Legacy metagame. I just have not seen any players running it. So, to answer your title question: I would argue that The Gate is not "still" viable. It's "finally, after all these years of Miracles domination and post Top ban, once again viable".
It won't be a tier 1 deck, but then again, it never was in the first place. It's also dirt cheap to build if you don't color splash. I would probably compare The Gate as an entry level price aggro deck with Monored/Ruby storm, which is a dirt cheap viable combo deck, and burn which has always been dirt cheap (excluding Goblin Guide I guess) and viable.
Given unlimited budget, though, Death & Taxes is probably superior to The Gate with their Thalia taxes, storm hate bears (e.g. Sanctum Prelate and Ethersworn Canonist) and Rishadan Port mana denial. But then again, The Gate might win versus Death&Taxes. So The Gate can be great given the right, non-storm metagame. Past in Flames is the fancy Storm card which makes battling against storm decks with Hymn / hand discard only super difficult. So monoblack will need hand discard + grave hate to compete in that MU.
2nd this list. Seems like the most modern version of this type of deck.
Thanks for all the advice folks. Going to run a modified removal package with the Obliterators. For the sideboard I decided to go with:
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Pithing Needle
1x Toxic Deluge
2x Engineered Plauge
3x Surgical Extraction
Like that Japanese list, gonna test it out another time when I'm less short notice.
Thanks again!
I'm currently trying to brew a revival for The Gate but the cards have changed greatly since then. We now have Fatal Push to replace Victim of Night, Gifted Aetherborn to replace Vampire Nighthawk and Smuggler's Copter to smooth our draws and add flyers. Copter is really good with bitterblossom and with creatures that are never attacking like Dark Confidant.
Also, the deck really benefits from a very light green splash for sideboard decays / sylvan library. With a few fetches and 2 Bayous you would still be immune to wasteland while having answers to stuff Black cannot deal with.
I believe the deck could be strong but your list is greatly outdated.
Edit: BTW, the deck still has a forum in the established decks so you might want to discuss it there instead.
Last edited by Cpt-Qc; 09-10-2017 at 10:47 AM.
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