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Thread: Mono U Tempo Delver

  1. #101

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Draggo View Post
    How is that guy playing Careful Study over Faithless Looting? Makes no sense at all.
    So when he plays Manamorphose he adds allways UU. It does make sense.

  2. #102

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Pteromanders are too slow as the first threat. I think 2 of is good. Aside from them, delver and jaces phantasm, are there any other decent 1-drops in our arsenal?


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  3. #103

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    So Iím probably the only one trying out a new build, but hear me out:
    4 delver
    4 jaces phantasm
    2 pteromander
    1 true name nemesis
    4 archive trap
    4 thought scour
    3 force of will
    4 daze
    2 spell snare
    3 spell pierce
    4 Brainstorm
    3 vapor snag
    1 psionic blast
    3 visions from beyond
    1 surgical extraction

    4 wasteland
    7 fetch
    6 island

    Yep, itís for realsies. I think the earliest Iíve done is a turn 2 jaces phantasm as 5/5, and itís pretty freaking sweet. Archive traps + random surgical s has been sweet, but the greatest is having main deck ancestral recalls. Also, being able to thought scour miracles in response to predicts have been fun too.

    Also, this folds to chalice for 1 like you wouldnít believe. I think even angel stompy would give this deck fits.


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  4. #104

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    That was indeed very funny! I think the ono u won because he completely neutered a chunk of the rug deck (stifles, wastelands) and not being able to get back from that hole.

    Playing with fetches turns those stifles back on. Heck it even turns on the wastelands (ever been wastelanded with the brainstorm in response to therapy, inquisition or hymn?)..

    Iím quite impressed with the blue dragon actually. Iím gonna test 4 dragons, 4 pteromanders, 4 delver, 4 sprites, 2 snapcaster and possibly 2 ninjas (that look on the rug players face when he saw the ninja!).


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    Blue Dragon? Do you mean Cryptic Serpent?

    Also I don't follow, how are fetchlands bad against wasteland in a monoblue list?

  5. #105

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Blue Dragon? Do you mean Cryptic Serpent?

    Also I don't follow, how are fetchlands bad against wasteland in a monoblue list?
    Sorry.. I meant jaces phantasm. Itís the 1/1 flier that gets +4/+4 if an opponent has 10 or more cards in the gy. I donít think cryptic serpents are playable, really.

    Well, wastelands against mono u fetches can cause some awkward brainstorms/ponders/flipping delivers. I think Iíve been burned more than once that way. It doesnít feel nearly as bad as losing a tropic though, but itís still something to consider.


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  6. #106
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    I really don't like archive trap here.
    I understand that it fuels phantasm and vision, but it's really only card disadvantage (Along with FoW that is also some card disadvantage).
    I'd rather play more pteramanders or concentrate on my own game plan that is putting cards in my own graveyard rather that potentially helping my Grixis delver opponent by dumping 10 cards in his graveyard.

    And yes, i'd say that in this meta, i'd play another threat than jace's phantasm as people are using delve spells a lot (Angler).
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  7. #107

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    I really don't like archive trap here.
    I understand that it fuels phantasm and vision, but it's really only card disadvantage (Along with FoW that is also some card disadvantage).
    I'd rather play more pteramanders or concentrate on my own game plan that is putting cards in my own graveyard rather that potentially helping my Grixis delver opponent by dumping 10 cards in his graveyard.

    And yes, i'd say that in this meta, i'd play another threat than jace's phantasm as people are using delve spells a lot (Angler).
    I think my local is very skewed towards blue and white, so maybe that's not a big deal. Aside from grixis/bug lists that run anglers, tombstalkers and mongooses, are there any other decks that this would be helping? oh and dredge, reanimator.

    But what you say is very relevant actually. Perhaps it is better to go with the full 8 cantrips + thought scour + some number of mental note, and go with pteromanders and maybe 1-3 cryptic serpents.
    The problem i have with cryptic serpents is that they can get stuck in my hand with basically no outs. i could BS-tuck 'em, but i think there should be better things to do with my brainstorms.
    Also, i'm considering running a 1-of sneaky temporal mastery, and throwing in the 4-of accumulated knowledge. Card drawing is good, and there's a good chance i can sneak off an extra turn for that final bit of reach.

    Just curious, if we're going to focus on self-milling, what should the threats look like? 4 delvers, 4 pteromanders, 2 cryptic serpent, 2 TNN, 1 clique? and to turn on those terrys and snakes, we're going to need at least 4 BS, 4 ponder, 2 preordain, 4 thought scours, 3 mental note, 4 AK. I feel like we need more flow through the deck; things like chart a course or take inventory could be good... probably not though, but i always feel like it takes too long to turn those creatures into 5/5s. our clock is just too slow.

    could false memories be a thing? serpents and pteromanders look only for sorceries and instants, so we can mill 7, exile creatures and lands we don't need, and probably then are able to turn them all on.

    With this style though, we're a LOT slower than most (if not all) tempo/aggro decks, but we're not aggressive enough to take on the control decks either. It's in this weird half-way zone that loses to both sides. I guess thats why adding red to this build has been simply amazing. the extra addition of burn plus cantrips means that we don't need the creatures to hit for more than 10. I'm not sure where this deck is at its best; as a tempo deck where CA isn't a thing, and we just go all-in as fast as we can, or if it should be more mid-range controly, where CA is a serious consideration.
    I might just leave this dream as it is for now, and try to morph it into UR delver instead.

  8. #108

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Hi, I'm new to this forum, but I'm also testing mono U delver with pteramanders so I thought I'd sign up!

    I'm using 10 creatures (4x delver, 4x terry and 2xTNN), 11 counterspells + 4x stifle, 4x BS and 4x ponder as my base. This leaves my with 4-6 removal ( at the moment 4x vapor snag, 2x dismember) and 3-5 "other" cards which can be utility or more disruption.

    All I have found so far is that curious obsession is bad. I'm not sold on accumulated knowledge And thought scour. I'm going to try 2xb2b in te main with 1x Jitte next.

    I'm also going to go from 2x dismember to 1x dismember and 1x psionic blast. (You rarely want to play the second dismember if you happen to draw it).

    Keen to hear thoughts.

    One question: how do we deal with burn? Especially the build without fetches seems like the worst possible match up.

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  9. #109

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Against burn, drop a TNN, counter everything as they come up, especially the eidolons. Itís basically a race, but basically, as you land critters, theyíre going to have to decide how able they are to race you.
    Side out dismembers. You can use psionic blasts as a last-ditch effort to tie the game.

    I recall using spicy tech like divert against decays, so that might be a thing here. But that was ages past.

    Iím wondering if cards like arcane laboratory might be playable.

    The thing is, accumulated knowledge can be good; itís ok card advantage that gets better on the long game for the grind.

    Iíve re-tested cryptic serpent, and I feel like with accumulated knowledge, thought scours, it can be ok. Itís been surprisingly relevant against some hate, namely it doesnít get nuked by push or decay, but drawing it early game has been horrendous. Casting it for 4-5 gives me some feel-bads, but itís good enough. Iím guessing 1-3 seems good.

    Sorry if I keep flipping on cards; I like really weird plans for my decks!


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  10. #110

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Very helpful, thank you!

    I'm going to test accumulated knowledge properly, as well as chart a course (1 or 2 max as it's a 2drop).

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  11. #111

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Did you get any testing on it done? Iím guessing you came to a similar conclusion as me - not fast enough.
    If we get to the point where weíre drawing 2-3 off AK, our threats arenít scary enough to win the long game. If weíre spending 2 mana to just draw 1, itís waaay too ineffective for our resources.

    Unfortunately, Iíve been messing about a bit too much with other pet decks to be spending too much time trying to get this into working order. But Iíll still be creeping round to see whatís going on!


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  12. #112

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    Did you get any testing on it done? Iím guessing you came to a similar conclusion as me - not fast enough.
    If we get to the point where weíre drawing 2-3 off AK, our threats arenít scary enough to win the long game. If weíre spending 2 mana to just draw 1, itís waaay too ineffective for our resources.

    Unfortunately, Iíve been messing about a bit too much with other pet decks to be spending too much time trying to get this into working order. But Iíll still be creeping round to see whatís going on!


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    AK is a bad card to my view for a fast deck. I suggest disrupt which does something different but it's a great tempo card.
    It is so good: even if the opponents pays 1 mana, you still draw.

    I use
    2 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Wasteland
    1 Mishra's Factory
    1 Faerie Conclave
    1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
    7 Island

    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Pteramander
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Walking Ballista

    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    2 Misdirection
    2 Disrupt

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    1 Preordain
    1 Temporal Mastery

    3 Vapor Snag
    2 Psionic Blast
    1 Dismember
    1 Basilisk Collar

    In my side
    2 Divert
    2 Stifle
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Energy Field
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Reins of Power
    1 Powder Keg
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Rushing River

  13. #113

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by frustanani View Post
    AK is a bad card to my view for a fast deck. I suggest disrupt which does something different but it's a great tempo card.
    It is so good: even if the opponents pays 1 mana, you still draw.

    I use
    2 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Wasteland
    1 Mishra's Factory
    1 Faerie Conclave
    1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
    7 Island

    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Pteramander
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Walking Ballista

    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    2 Misdirection
    2 Disrupt

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    1 Preordain
    1 Temporal Mastery

    3 Vapor Snag
    2 Psionic Blast
    1 Dismember
    1 Basilisk Collar

    In my side
    2 Divert
    2 Stifle
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Energy Field
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Reins of Power
    1 Powder Keg
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Rushing River
    Nice!
    I was going to question the ballista, but then I saw the basilisk collar. Was it that effective for you by the way? I couldnít imagine the walker getting any bigger than 1 or 2, so itís a very slow killing machine.

    And how is your disruption suite working for you? After the dazes and forces, Iíve been trying 1 of each spell pierce, stifle, spell snare and unsubstantiate. The stifle really puts people on tilt!


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  14. #114

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    Nice!
    I was going to question the ballista, but then I saw the basilisk collar. Was it that effective for you by the way? I couldnít imagine the walker getting any bigger than 1 or 2, so itís a very slow killing machine.

    And how is your disruption suite working for you? After the dazes and forces, Iíve been trying 1 of each spell pierce, stifle, spell snare and unsubstantiate. The stifle really puts people on tilt!


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    Basilisk Collar goes nearly always on True-Name Nemesis. Fair creatures cannot race it.
    I like the lifelink also because makes me able to rebalance the loss of lifes cause of fetches, psionic blasts or dismember.

    Against some decks a lategame Ballista + Collar happens but it's not the reason they are both in the deck.
    Ballista is good against creatures (most creatures have weekness 1 in legacy) _ just think at Death and Texas of Grixis Delver.

    After Daze and Force of Will, I don't like "1 for 1" counterspells but I chose to use Misdirection and Disrupt because they can give you a big advantage on an opponent when they hit. A turn 1 Disrupt on an opponent cantrip is a big card advantage. Misdirecting a Bolt, or a Tourach or a remouval pushes you to a faster victory and, if you are in bad shape, can switch the trend of the game in your favor. Spell Piercing a Bolt, does notting to the trend of the match.

    Some games, especially against those who play a lot of remouvals or burn spells I play g2 with 2 Misdirection and 2 Divert thus making opponents' cards a threat against themself. This is important for a monocloured deck, especially blue which do not have good remouvals.

  15. #115

    Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by frustanani View Post
    Basilisk Collar goes nearly always on True-Name Nemesis. Fair creatures cannot race it.
    I like the lifelink also because makes me able to rebalance the loss of lifes cause of fetches, psionic blasts or dismember.

    Against some decks a lategame Ballista + Collar happens but it's not the reason they are both in the deck.
    Ballista is good against creatures (most creatures have weekness 1 in legacy) _ just think at Death and Texas of Grixis Delver.

    After Daze and Force of Will, I don't like "1 for 1" counterspells but I chose to use Misdirection and Disrupt because they can give you a big advantage on an opponent when they hit. A turn 1 Disrupt on an opponent cantrip is a big card advantage. Misdirecting a Bolt, or a Tourach or a remouval pushes you to a faster victory and, if you are in bad shape, can switch the trend of the game in your favor. Spell Piercing a Bolt, does notting to the trend of the match.

    Some games, especially against those who play a lot of remouvals or burn spells I play g2 with 2 Misdirection and 2 Divert thus making opponents' cards a threat against themself. This is important for a monocloured deck, especially blue which do not have good remouvals.
    Thatís fair enough! Iím not 100% sold on the ballista, mostly cuz Iíve tried it in a big mana build before, and it doesnít seem to do enough even at x=3. And getting 6 mana here seems excessive!

    Iíve always wanted misdirection effects to work, but aside from discard, I feel like for example abrupt decay, there are quite a few times when my opponent wonít have a decent target to hit.

    Disrupt is something Iíve a love-hate relation with. I had it in solidarity, but my meta is VERY control heavy. It basically doesnít do anything aside from being a bad opt. In theory, in a meta full of tempo and Aggro, itís got potential to be very good. I use spell pierce cuz it can also counter a jace, library, and other threats that I wanna get rid of, whereas disrupt doesnít.

    In my mind, playing a wide variety of 1-2 ofs of various disruption pieces means that you can threaten a bunch of responses, and make the opponent tilt. Not sure if itís something worth considering. The 2 most tilting cards are daze (4-of, obviously), and possibly stifle.

    Oh o meant to ask. Oboro? Whatís that land doing there? I donít see any upside of it at all. And only 3 wastelands?

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  16. #116

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by frustanani View Post
    AK is a bad card to my view for a fast deck. I suggest disrupt which does something different but it's a great tempo card.
    It is so good: even if the opponents pays 1 mana, you still draw.

    I use
    2 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Wasteland
    1 Mishra's Factory
    1 Faerie Conclave
    1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
    7 Island

    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Pteramander
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Walking Ballista

    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    2 Misdirection
    2 Disrupt

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    1 Preordain
    1 Temporal Mastery

    3 Vapor Snag
    2 Psionic Blast
    1 Dismember
    1 Basilisk Collar

    In my side
    2 Divert
    2 Stifle
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Energy Field
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Reins of Power
    1 Powder Keg
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Rushing River
    Disrupt is a fantastic addition to the deck. I like your list a lot. The only change I would make to your spell slots is to go 4 FoW/1 MisD. I am not sold on your threat slots (they seem too mana intensive) but if it works for you, thats great.

  17. #117

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    This list just 5-0 and top 4ed at a big MTGO tourney...

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1878003#paper

    Creatures (14)
    4 Delver of Secrets u 0.16
    4 Pteramander u 0.56
    2 Merfolk Trickster uu 0.08
    4 True-Name Nemesis 1uu 196.12
    Spells (24)
    4 Brainstorm u 0.28
    2 Flusterstorm u 10.66
    3 Ponder u 0.12
    3 Spell Pierce u 0.12
    4 Stifle u 8.20
    4 Daze 1u 38.68
    4 Force of Will 3uu 83.88
    Enchantments (4)
    4 Curious Obsession u 0.16
    Lands (18)
    4 Flooded Strand 25.60
    6 Island 0.00
    4 Polluted Delta 24.80
    4 Wasteland 65.12

    Curious Obsession is the stand out inclusion. It alongside 4 Delver, 4 Mander and 4 TNN is very cool.

    Just an fyi, auras stay on delver even after it flips, so enchanting a 1/1 delver is perfectly ok if your opponent doesnít have a blocker.

    The only thing I dislike is the Merfolk Trickster (unless it can tap Emrakul, I dont think it can). Would prefer another 1cc drop there. I think either 2 Jaceís Phantasm or 2 Siren Stormtamer would be better options if the deck wants to play Curious Obsession.
    Last edited by Captain Hammer; 05-08-2019 at 10:54 AM.

  18. #118

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    This list just 5-0 and top 4ed at a big MTGO tourney...

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1878003#paper

    Creatures (14)
    4 Delver of Secrets u 0.16
    4 Pteramander u 0.56
    2 Merfolk Trickster uu 0.08
    4 True-Name Nemesis 1uu 196.12
    Spells (24)
    4 Brainstorm u 0.28
    2 Flusterstorm u 10.66
    3 Ponder u 0.12
    3 Spell Pierce u 0.12
    4 Stifle u 8.20
    4 Daze 1u 38.68
    4 Force of Will 3uu 83.88
    Enchantments (4)
    4 Curious Obsession u 0.16
    Lands (18)
    4 Flooded Strand 25.60
    6 Island 0.00
    4 Polluted Delta 24.80
    4 Wasteland 65.12

    Curious Obsession is the stand out inclusion. It alongside 4 Delver, 4 Mander and 4 TNN is very cool.

    Just an fyi, auras stay on delver even after it flips, so enchanting a 1/1 delver is perfectly ok if your opponent doesnít have a blocker.

    The only thing I dislike is the Merfolk Trickster (unless it can tap Emrakul, I dont think it can). Would prefer another 1cc drop there. I think either 2 Jaceís Phantasm or 2 Siren Stormtamer would be better options if the deck wants to play Curious Obsession.
    Nice list
    I would probably add some Disrupt in some Spell Pierces' or Flusterstorms' slots

    Curious Obsession is a very good card turn 2 when you play a turn 1 critter and connects. It is great when everything is going ok, it is a bad card when you are not connecting with a creature. I think it performs better with a larger number of creatures in the deck (16+) to my view. To make card advantage you need to connect twice with the enchanted creature and sometimes opponents can make 2 for 1 with a simple Lightning Bolt

    I would also consider
    Chart a Course or
    Ninja of the Deep Hours or
    Standstill (maybe with 2 or 3 manlands) in their place or to split with
    they all kind of need a creature on board but could also work without.

    Recently I'm counting 4 Phantasmal Bear in the side to use in the matchups I want to be a faster aggressor

  19. #119
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    The only thing I dislike is the Merfolk Trickster (unless it can tap Emrakul, I dont think it can).
    It can, for the same reason why Oblivion Ring can target Emrakul.
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  20. #120

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Not too unsold on the merfolk. I like that it can tap blockers for lethal.

    Iím a bit surprised you didnít use psionic blast. I donít really test this deck anymore, but even a few months back, the reach or creature removal in the blast has usually been very relevant.


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