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Thread: Mono U Tempo Delver

  1. #121
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    This list just 5-0 and top 4ed at a big MTGO tourney...
    Thanks for posting my list, it's a lot of fun to play and it's stronger than I had expected.


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    The only thing I dislike is the Merfolk Trickster (unless it can tap Emrakul, I dont think it can). Would prefer another 1cc drop there. I think either 2 Jaceís Phantasm or 2 Siren Stormtamer would be better options if the deck wants to play Curious Obsession.
    It can indeed tap Emrakul, but I'm currently off Trickster. It was good, but I needed more cards to flip Delver, so I'm on Vapor Snag now.

    I started out with more 1-drops, with Stormtamer being one of the candidates, alongside Mausoleum Wanderer, but I found my earlier builds to be a bit too creature-heavy. However, including more 1-drops that interact with the opponent is definitely a solid plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by frustanani View Post
    I would probably add some Disrupt in some Spell Pierces' or Flusterstorms' slots
    Oooh, definitely a fun card to try out! I do think it weakens the deck against Plow decks, since they usually have mana to spare, but it's worth a shot.


    Quote Originally Posted by frustanani View Post
    Curious Obsession is a very good card turn 2 when you play a turn 1 critter and connects. It is great when everything is going ok, it is a bad card when you are not connecting with a creature. I think it performs better with a larger number of creatures in the deck (16+) to my view. To make card advantage you need to connect twice with the enchanted creature and sometimes opponents can make 2 for 1 with a simple Lightning Bolt
    It's definitely a risky card, but it's run away with so many games for me by now. Play it safe when you can and sometimes it's better to wait for True-Name Nemesis to hit the board. And, sometimes you just have to risk it ;). I'm currently trying Peek and so far it's been great, knowing what your opponent has is gas.

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    Not too unsold on the merfolk. I like that it can tap blockers for lethal.

    Iím a bit surprised you didnít use psionic blast. I donít really test this deck anymore, but even a few months back, the reach or creature removal in the blast has usually been very relevant.
    Trickster can indeed swing the entire game around when timed accurately.

    I've dabbled with a one-off Psionic Blast and it was pretty good, I got to kill the opponent with it in 2 games across 1 league. Thalia is my main reason for not going for Blast permanently.

    Updated list (not including the Peek test):

    Land (18)

    3 Flooded Strand
    6 Island
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    4 Wasteland

    Creature (12)

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Pteramander
    4 True-Name Nemesis

    Sorcery (4)

    4 Ponder

    Instant (23)

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    1 Flusterstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Spell Pierce
    4 Stifle
    2 Vapor Snag

    Enchantment (3)

    3 Curious Obsession


    Sideboard (15)

    2 Back to Basics
    1 Commandeer
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Ensnare
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Venser, Shaper Savant
    2 Winter Orb


    Vapor Snag has been better than Trickster for the aformentioned reason and I'm on one fewer Curious Obsession for the hit-or-miss reason mentioned by Frustanani.

    I'm considering an extra Flusterstorm, it's extremely good at protecting our 1-drops.

    Play of the week: casting Commandeer on Reanimate, netting me my own Griselbrand

  2. #122

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Beest View Post
    Thanks for posting my list, it's a lot of fun to play and it's stronger than I had expected.



    It can indeed tap Emrakul, but I'm currently off Trickster. It was good, but I needed more cards to flip Delver, so I'm on Vapor Snag now.

    I started out with more 1-drops, with Stormtamer being one of the candidates, alongside Mausoleum Wanderer, but I found my earlier builds to be a bit too creature-heavy. However, including more 1-drops that interact with the opponent is definitely a solid plan.


    Oooh, definitely a fun card to try out! I do think it weakens the deck against Plow decks, since they usually have mana to spare, but it's worth a shot.



    It's definitely a risky card, but it's run away with so many games for me by now. Play it safe when you can and sometimes it's better to wait for True-Name Nemesis to hit the board. And, sometimes you just have to risk it ;). I'm currently trying Peek and so far it's been great, knowing what your opponent has is gas.


    Trickster can indeed swing the entire game around when timed accurately.

    I've dabbled with a one-off Psionic Blast and it was pretty good, I got to kill the opponent with it in 2 games across 1 league. Thalia is my main reason for not going for Blast permanently.

    Updated list (not including the Peek test):

    Land (18)

    3 Flooded Strand
    6 Island
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    4 Wasteland

    Creature (12)

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Pteramander
    4 True-Name Nemesis

    Sorcery (4)

    4 Ponder

    Instant (23)

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    1 Flusterstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Spell Pierce
    4 Stifle
    2 Vapor Snag

    Enchantment (3)

    3 Curious Obsession


    Sideboard (15)

    2 Back to Basics
    1 Commandeer
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Ensnare
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Venser, Shaper Savant
    2 Winter Orb


    Vapor Snag has been better than Trickster for the aformentioned reason and I'm on one fewer Curious Obsession for the hit-or-miss reason mentioned by Frustanani.

    I'm considering an extra Flusterstorm, it's extremely good at protecting our 1-drops.

    Play of the week: casting Commandeer on Reanimate, netting me my own Griselbrand
    No space for narset's reversal? it's pretty good as a 'hard' counter, can give you extra cards against ad nauseum, it can save your vapour snag from a counter.. heck it can save your vapour snag against a marit lage with crop rotation on the stack. I get that it's not the best tempo play though, but off the side, and as a complete blow-out, it's something to behold.

    One other thing though, is there no space or vendillion clique? it allows us to use our tempo, and it also lets us snipe something out of our opponents hand post-ponder or some other cantrip. I get that it's since been outdone by TNN, but i think its flash and hand-disruption is something useful to have. Also, it can function as a bad cantrip for us too.
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  3. #123

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Beest View Post

    Updated list (not including the Peek test):

    Land (18)

    3 Flooded Strand
    6 Island
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    4 Wasteland

    Creature (12)

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Pteramander
    4 True-Name Nemesis

    Sorcery (4)

    4 Ponder

    Instant (23)

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    1 Flusterstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Spell Pierce
    4 Stifle
    2 Vapor Snag

    Enchantment (3)

    3 Curious Obsession


    Sideboard (15)

    2 Back to Basics
    1 Commandeer
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Ensnare
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Venser, Shaper Savant
    2 Winter Orb


    Vapor Snag has been better than Trickster for the aformentioned reason and I'm on one fewer Curious Obsession for the hit-or-miss reason mentioned by Frustanani.

    I'm considering an extra Flusterstorm, it's extremely good at protecting our 1-drops.

    Play of the week: casting Commandeer on Reanimate, netting me my own Griselbrand
    I love your new list. I think it's absolutely perfect. Really love that you went with 4x Spell Pierce.

    I think your biggest weakness will be fast aggro strategies since you have no sweepers and many of your counters can't counter creatures but I guess TNN and Vapor Snag will help some.

  4. #124
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    No space for narset's reversal? it's pretty good as a 'hard' counter, can give you extra cards against ad nauseum, it can save your vapour snag from a counter.. heck it can save your vapour snag against a marit lage with crop rotation on the stack. I get that it's not the best tempo play though, but off the side, and as a complete blow-out, it's something to behold.

    One other thing though, is there no space or vendillion clique? it allows us to use our tempo, and it also lets us snipe something out of our opponents hand post-ponder or some other cantrip. I get that it's since been outdone by TNN, but i think its flash and hand-disruption is something useful to have. Also, it can function as a bad cantrip for us too.
    I'd love an effect like Reversal, but it's a bit too situational for 2 mana I think. I tried Counterspell when testing the first version of this deck and while the hard counter was really strong, keeping up 2 mana in this deck is generally not where you find yourself. 1 mana up is the sweet spot, usually.

    Clique, however, would be a great addition to the deck/sideboard. I'll be testing it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I love your new list. I think it's absolutely perfect. Really love that you went with 4x Spell Pierce.

    I think your biggest weakness will be fast aggro strategies since you have no sweepers and many of your counters can't counter creatures but I guess TNN and Vapor Snag will help some.
    Definitely. The worst matchups so far seem to be Elves, followed by Aether Vial decks and multi-colored Delver decks, though luckily due to the nature of this deck, no matchups feel unwinnable.

  5. #125

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    I am wondering if Force of Negation fits here well.

    The only issue is that it cant counter creatures and go wide aggro strategies give this deck a hard time. Fortunately, I think elves is the only such matchup right now.

    Edit: Eldrazi and DnT too but Force of Negation counters Chalice and Vial which is an amazingly useful function.

  6. #126
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    I think if this deck wants some number of Force of Negation then Standstill gets very, very good. T1 Delver/Pteramander, turn 2 Standstill. It allows you to refill when you are playing 5+ Force of Will variants.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  7. #127

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    does a discord server about mono u delver exist?

  8. #128
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    I'll definitely be testing Force of Negation. One or two in the main may be correct.

    I've somehow never played against Eldrazi Aggro with this deck, but the Karnpost decks seem to be a very good matchup, though obviously if they resolve a turn 1 Chalice we are in deep trouble.

    Standstill is worth a test, perhaps instead of the Obsessions.

    As far as I know there is no mono u Delver Discord. I'm in the UR and Grixis Discords myself.

  9. #129

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Beest View Post
    I'll definitely be testing Force of Negation. One or two in the main may be correct.

    I've somehow never played against Eldrazi Aggro with this deck, but the Karnpost decks seem to be a very good matchup, though obviously if they resolve a turn 1 Chalice we are in deep trouble.

    Standstill is worth a test, perhaps instead of the Obsessions.

    As far as I know there is no mono u Delver Discord. I'm in the UR and Grixis Discords myself.
    I sometime try 3 Standstill with 19 lands (3 mishra 3 wasteland 13 blue sources) but to my view is not a great card in a deck running a small number of lands. What sometimes happens is that you have 2 lands and a critter and with standstill the opponent draws more lands than you and when standstill makes you draw 3, dazes, spell pierces, stifle are not that useful anymore in the game (they are better when you opponents has few lands). I like it more as a 2 X sideboard card vs control decks in a 18/19 lands list). The only build I found it (Standstill) great was with 22 lands (12 blue mana sources + 3 Wasteland + 4 Mutavault + 3 Maze of Ith) but it was more a controllish list with also 1 Trinket Mage 1 Retrofitter Foundry (Mutavault becomes 4/4) 1 Crucible of Worlds and 1 Basilisk Collar to equip the True-Name Nemesis or Walking Ballista (Delver of Secrets too even if they did't flip that easily .. but under Standstill they would flip sometimes)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The best smoth card advantage card for this deck (tempo gameplan) is to my view disrupt because a lot of your opponents play cantrips in their first 2 turns Miracle for example starts allways with cantrip turn 1 digging for lands, same thing for combo decks, opponents' tempo decks start with cc1 creature or seize or ponder). I personally like it more than stifle if I had to chose between the two cards, but even both could be played.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For more pure card advantage, I see those 3 cards nearly equivalent with light differences
    Curious Obsession is the fastest
    Ninja of the Deep Hours is the strongest (as power level)
    Chart a Course is the more flexilble, could be played as a cantrip and helps more Delver of Secrets flipping or Pteramander level-upping
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    2 Misdirection
    1 Force of Negation
    Is the split for the "free spells" I would play in a 15+ creature list (where Misdirection shines)
    (so you tap out more and use your mana nearly only to play offensive spells .. Aggro Mode)

  10. #130
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Agreed, when I played Standstill in the past it was always in more control-like decks. I really like Ninjutsu with Standstill and a fair number of man-lands. I'll be playing my other pet deck, Ninjas, from time to time with the release of Ingenious Infiltrator and Changeling Outcast.

    So far, Stifle has been one of the deck's most potent weapons. The number of games I've won on stifling a crucial fetch land is beyond count now. Not to mention Stoneforge Mystic triggers and the like. If Stifle becomes more popular and people start to play around it more like in the RUG days, I might cut it.

    I have yet to test Disrupt, because I'm currently playing a couple of Spell Snare in the main and Blue Elemental Blast in the side because of the rise of Dreadhorde Arcanist Delver, but I'll get around to it eventually.

  11. #131

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Beest View Post
    ... I'm currently playing a couple of Spell Snare in the main and Blue Elemental Blast in the side because of the rise of Dreadhorde Arcanist Delver, but I'll get around to it eventually.
    I use 2 misdirection maindeck and 2 divert in the sideboard to face Lightning Bolts' decks.
    Don't know which way is better.
    The biggest help is given by Basilisk Collar on True-Name Nemesis to my view.

    Against Death and Texas (which looks strong and popular) I find great cards in the sideboard:
    -> Marrow Shards because they run 3 Phyrexian Revoker, 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 4 Flickerwisp ... and more
    -> Tsabo's Web because they run 3 Karakas 4 Rishadan Port 4 Wasteland ... and sometimes some Horizon Canopy

    this artifact is sometimes better than Back to Basics against Thespian's Stage because they copy our basic island and they can still use the ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beest View Post
    ... I really like Ninjutsu with Standstill and a fair number of man-lands. I'll be playing my other pet deck, Ninjas, from time to time with the release of Ingenious Infiltrator and Changeling Outcast...
    Also the new cc3 blue ninja is very good



    With Ninjutzu it connects 1 turn before True-Name Nemesis and doubles itself. It would be very aggressive with
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Pteramander + ???

  12. #132

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by frustanani View Post

    Also the new cc3 blue ninja is very good



    With Ninjutzu it connects 1 turn before True-Name Nemesis and doubles itself. It would be very aggressive with
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Pteramander + ???
    Yeah the ninja looks very cool. I think the challenge is figuring out which creature to play in the +??? slot to pair with it and possibly with curious obsession.

    Mausoleum Wanderer is awesome early game.

    Jace's Phantasm becomes awesome late game (probably not worth it).

    Faerie Seer is always good (helps ensure Delver flips and often gets rid of a land you don't need thus essentially drawing you a card) but never amazing.

    Spellstutter Sprite is amazing in that it counters a 1cc spell (which almost every deck plays plenty of) it can be played EOT turn 2 and Ninja bounces it back to the hand to counter a spell later on.

    Another option is to build a Fairies and Ninjas deck that doesn't care about loading up full of instant/sorcery speed cantrips and instead plays Fairie Seer, Spellstutter, Vendilion Clique and some Ninjas.

    It's a damn shame that Wizards didn't make Masoleium Wanderer, Delver or Petramander fairies.


    Regardless, this seems worth testing

    Test List:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Faerie Seer (helps ensure Delver flips and virtual card advantage)
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    2 Vendilion Clique
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    4 FoW
    3 Stifle
    3 Spell Pierce
    1 Pteramander
    1 Mist-Syndicate Naga
    1 Curious Obsession
    1 Disrupt
    1 Divert
    1 Counterspell
    1 Spell Snare
    1 Vapor Snag
    1 Dismember
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Misdirection
    4 Wasteland
    6 Island
    7 Fetchlands

    After testing, cut your 3-4 least favorite 1 ofs above to play an additional Clique, Stifle, Spell Pierce and/or an additional island if you get mana screwed.


    For modern, replace the legacy cards with a couple of Opt, Remand, Mana Leak, Force of Negation, Field of Ruin and one extra copy of everything else already in the deck and you have a strong contender.

    Sorcery speed spells are crappy since so many of these creatures have flash so the list plays only instants.

    The Naga is a test slot. It's the only card I don't have any confidence in but its promising since this list plays 10 creatures that you wouldn't mind returning to hand, but more Clique/TNN might prove better than Naga.

    The 1-2 ofs are all cards that are usually bad in multiples.
    Last edited by Captain Hammer; 06-09-2019 at 08:31 PM.

  13. #133

    Mono U Tempo Delver

    Isnít faerie seeker better replaced with ponder and/or an actual beater?

    This deck seems rather anemic compared to previous builds. I get that itís in testing phase, but tempo builds really need to get a reasonably quick clock, and a bunch of 1/1 beats isnít really enough.

    Also, Iím not really sure why thereís an emphasis on things having flash and at instant speed. Is it to improve tempo on the off chance you donít have a reasonable counter target?

    Pteromanders have been generally good to great in my testing, so Iím not sure just a 1-of is correct. Itís a beater that lands early for pot shots and gets in for 5 late game. Cryptic serpent is not as good, but I think is still miles better than faerie seer.

    What I was going to mention was the new force of negation. I think itís more playable than counterspell. It even exiles irritating cards so they canít be snapcastered if itís relevant.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  14. #134

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Random question from someone quite naive, but you often read about fetches and mono-colour decks, I assume the fetches are just because of brainstorm?

  15. #135
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Fetches make Ponder better as well. Even without cantrips Iíd still play them as they mill lands out of the deck; as an added bonus they function as pseudo-mana in the yard (thresh/delve-type mechanics). Perhaps most noticeable in the limited environment is that with every land you topdeck, another land topdeck after that becomes increasingly less desireable.

  16. #136

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    I'm testing an aggro blue build quite aggressive based on Ninja (in the future the plan is to fit Mist-Syndicate Naga in)

    Lands (18)

    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Polluted Delta
    7 Island
    3 Wasteland
    2 Mishra's Factory

    Creatures (18 blue and 2 Manlands ... 9 cc1 creatures)

    2 Phantasmal Bear
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Pteramander
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Ninja of The Deep Hours

    Spells (24)

    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Misdirection
    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Vapor Snag
    3 Gut Shot

    Sideboard:

    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Marrow Shards
    2 Standstill
    2 Divert
    3 Powder Keg
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Psionic Blast

    1/1 flying faeries do not look that relevant to me. You don't have to sacrifice phantasmal bear with ninjutsu and its ability is quite irrelevant to me.
    A vanilla 2/2 for one is sometimes better than a 1/1 with flying.
    Gut Shot at the moment is very strong thus making me prefere Snapcaster Mage to Spellstutter Sprite.

  17. #137

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Beest View Post
    Agreed, when I played Standstill in the past it was always in more control-like decks. I really like Ninjutsu with Standstill and a fair number of man-lands. I'll be playing my other pet deck, Ninjas, from time to time with the release of Ingenious Infiltrator and Changeling Outcast.

    So far, Stifle has been one of the deck's most potent weapons. The number of games I've won on stifling a crucial fetch land is beyond count now. Not to mention Stoneforge Mystic triggers and the like. If Stifle becomes more popular and people start to play around it more like in the RUG days, I might cut it.

    I have yet to test Disrupt, because I'm currently playing a couple of Spell Snare in the main and Blue Elemental Blast in the side because of the rise of Dreadhorde Arcanist Delver, but I'll get around to it eventually.
    Yesterday I played a weekly small turnament (17plys I think) and tried standstill again.
    4 Rounds:
    2-0 (UWr Control)
    2-0 (Karns Deck)
    2-0 (UW Stoneblade)
    0-0 draw (Elves) and price

    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Wasteland
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Flooded Strand
    7 Island
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Cloud of Faeries
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Walking Ballista
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Standstill
    1 Basilisk Collar
    3 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    1 Misdirection
    2 Divert
    3 Vapor Snag
    1 Dismember
    2 Psionic Blast
    Side
    2 Counterspell
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Powder Keg
    1 Marrow Shards
    1 Rushing River
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Reins of Power
    2 Faerie Macabre
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Standstill actually works. Unexpectedly. I need 1 more blue land or fetch by the way.
    Cloud of Faeries was in test. The idea was to be able to drop creature +Standstill on turn 2 when I play cantrip or vapor snag / dismember on turn 1. I expected a lot of Grixis and so I used 1 Misdirection and 2 Divert in the main (usually Divert is in the side but anyway helped me in counterwars)

    Any player sacked my standstill immediately. No one waits.
    Cloud of Faeries actually was never a dead card. I pitched it, played it with standstill or cycled it away (once or twice with standstill on battlefield). Mishra's Factory is great now with all these planeswalkers. I think I closed every game with Psionic Blast.

  18. #138

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    The Ninja plan (Mist-Syndicate Naga) would go really well with Standstill. Faeire Seer helps ensure delver flips, enables turn two Standstill, enables Spellstutter Sprite and facilitates the Ninja plan.

    How about something like this as the threat package...
    4 Mutavault
    3 Standstill
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Faerie Seer
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    3 Mist-Syndicate Naga
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Vendilion Clique

    Spellstutter Sprite is sweet because it also lets you counter whatever spell they broke Standstill using.

  19. #139

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    New nice spirit ...

    Unfortunately it is not a faerie,
    but it has some friend to go with a Mist-Syndicate Naga and/or Ninja of the Deep Hours & Standstill strategy:
    Mausoleum Wanderer
    Rattlechains
    Supreme Phantom
    Here a nice video from Jim Davis with Mono-U-Faeries-Ninja-Still https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zgfNCG_xP8

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