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Thread: Mono U Tempo Delver

  1. #81

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    Thanks for the correction at Daze. Had a derp moment when I thought of it.


    I think that Homunculus would still be better than those in this deck. Djinn has the obvious drawback of being 3 cmc, which is a big deal in tempo, and Thing is noticeably harder to flip, which again is a loss of tempo.
    Though Thing does have the amusing but very relevant interaction with Delver of not bouncing them.
    Humuncolous doesnt look bad, only because it can be played off island + Wasteland whereas Serpent and most of the other alternatives require two islands.

    It's too small imo, prowess doesnt do much because it's a very reactive deck.

    I'm completely sold on Petramander. I think he definitely has a place here along with 1-2 TNN/Clique (maybe one of each). Just deciding on the last threat. It has to be 1-2cc since TNN/Clique took the 3cc slots. Spellstutter Sprite looks the most promising as there is never a shortage of 1cc cards worth countering and being able to bounce it with Snag is clutch. Ninja is a great supplement to Petramander and Sprite. Alternatively Cryptic Serpent along with Thought Scour still looks very tempting as a 2 of.

  2. #82

  3. #83
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Walking Ballista is a naturally powerful card, but it rewards big mana. We really don't have big mana. I think if you're looking for removal than Dismember is your best option. I don't doubt it does the job, given the time to work with it, but it seems so inefficient compared to the rest of the deck. Maybe it's ok that it's inefficient because everything else is uber efficient.
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  4. #84

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Walking Ballista is a naturally powerful card, but it rewards big mana. We really don't have big mana. I think if you're looking for removal than Dismember is your best option. I don't doubt it does the job, given the time to work with it, but it seems so inefficient compared to the rest of the deck. Maybe it's ok that it's inefficient because everything else is uber efficient.
    Most times it does its job with X=1. That is to say 2 mana.
    Most annoying creatures have defense = 1 and Dismember is a waste of life points. In a game, you are able to cast just 1 dismember.
    What better than a ballista to take away that annoying Baleful Strix for example in order to attack with your flyers ?

    Against big creatures like Tarmogoyf it is similar to Vapour Snag: You block with ballista and before damages, you sacrifice it and do 1 damage.
    ... Meanwhile you attack with your flyers or Nemesis. Race !
    Late game it does that 2 damages to kill the opponent one turn earlier casting with X=2.

    It is so useful. Also against Dredge makes him exile his Bridges.

  5. #85
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Sure, i get it. Meanwhile i am steering away from this deck back to Dreadstill. Getting 12/12 tramplers is better than anything this deck does, lol. Cryptic Serpent has been a big letdown. I might try Pteramander in Dreadstill, but i think Mishra's factory is still better.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  6. #86

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    I get the logic behind Walking Ballista but I firmly believe it to be strictly inferior to Spellstutter Sprite.

    Legacy has a lot more 1cc spells than x/1 creatures. Why play a 2cc guy that can kill x/1 creatures when you can cast a 2cc blue flying guy that counters a Brainstorm/StP/Thoughtseize/Delver and a billion other 1cc threats in the format. Its played end of your opponents turn which makes it even better. Plus it pitches to FoW and sticks around to ping for damage.

    Spellstutter >>> Ballista here.

    It supplements Spell Snare perfectly. You have Daze and Spell Pierce to stop higher CC spells. A 2/2 or 3/3 split of it with Spell Snare and 4 Daze makes a lot of sense.

    So in short frustnani, I like much of your list but I think you play too many high cc spells to reliably able to cast them before many games end. I would cut a TNN, a Psionic Blast and all 3 Ballista from you list and replace them with a couple of Spellstutter Sprite, Spell Snare and Spell Pierce. I think you will find your list performs much more consistently once you make those changes.

  7. #87

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Somewhat similar to Spellstutter there's also Judge's Familiar.

    And for dealing with x/1s there's Piracy Charm. Can even pump a Delver and the other modes aren't useless either.

  8. #88

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    Somewhat similar to Spellstutter there's also Judge's Familiar.

    And for dealing with x/1s there's Piracy Charm. Can even pump a Delver and the other modes aren't useless either.
    I had a build and run with 4 judges familiar and 4 sprites, and Iíve noticed that the familiars donít really do too much outside of my opponents playing around daze mana.

    Doing what itís supposed to be doing though I suppose, but letting my opponents sculpt hands with minimal pressure has been a mixed bag.

    The sprites have been great given the right circumstances, but horrible when irrelevant (I donít like having extra pressure stuck in my hand). Itís more a question of flexibility vs power. It works as both minimal pressure and as disruption, but we can do better (ish) if we just split it into a better disruption piece or pressure piece.

    Iím thinking that this deck needs to be more midrangey compared to rug and ur, cuz we simply donít have the pressure pieces to make it work, and not enough disruption compared to control decks. Iím thinking more niche disruption with ninjas and sprites as card advantage/disruption engine, that walker plus dismember for removal.


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  9. #89

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    Somewhat similar to Spellstutter there's also Judge's Familiar.

    And for dealing with x/1s there's Piracy Charm. Can even pump a Delver and the other modes aren't useless either.
    Piracy Charm is interesting. I will test it but I feel is does very few against a lot of decks.
    I have the feel it shines against those decks where Walking Ballista shines even more (for example Death and Texas or Grixis)

    I have already tested Spellstutter Sprite. It is a good card but it has a bad timing. If you are on the draw it is very bad, on the play it is good.

    Yesterday I top-4 (18 players) in a local small turnament with my list.
    I didn't have the Snapcaster Mage so I switched them with 1 Trinket Mage and the third Disrupt.
    And I took away 1 wasteland.
    I allways use 1 non-island blue land not to loose from Chokes. Sometimes is Seat of the Synod,sometimes Faerie Conclave, sometimes both.

    Updated list
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Polluted Delta
    8 Island
    3 Wasteland
    1 Mishra's Factory
    1 Faerie Conclave
    4 Delver of Secrets
    1 Trinket Mage
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Walking Ballista
    1 Basilisk Collar
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    1 Preordain
    1 Temporal Mastery
    3 Force of Will
    2 Misdirection
    4 Daze
    3 Disrupt
    2 Psionic Blast
    3 Vapor Snag
    1 Dismember

    Side
    1 Karakas
    1 Reins of Power
    1 Vendilion Clique
    3 Faerie Macabre
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Divert
    1 Stifle
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Powder Keg
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass


    I tested Reins of Power insted of Ensnaring Bridge because I don't have that artifact.
    It made me win some games Ensnaring Bridge would not so I will still trying it. For example I used it against a Loam deck with Knight of The Reliquary, Punishing Fire and Abrupt Decay. Ensnaring Bridge would not have me won the game, Reins of Power did.

    This list is not ment to make aggressive denial. Sometimes I play g2 with 18 lands, sometime with 20 (adding Karakas). I use Wasteland to take away nearly only annoying special lands or to take away the open mana from my opponent to be more free to play a card in m turn. For exaple I waste a Volcanic Island so that he cannot play Pyroblast countering my True-Name Nemesis.

    Test for future
    1 Predict instead of Trinket Mage in the main
    1 bomb-card agaist UW decks in the side (maybe Fact or Fiction or Talrand, Sky Summoner orStandstill )
    1 Marrow Shards in the side
    1 Rushing River in the side

    How are the test of who play Pteramander going ?
    I saw a nice UR list with them: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=29567&iddeck=247379
    and recently played against a list quite all mono blue with very little red splash (just to cast cc4 Phoenix if needed) with
    x Deep Analysis
    x Intuition
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    x Careful Study
    x Quiet Speculation
    4 Delver of Secrets
    x Pteramander
    3/4 Arclight Phoenix
    I think the idea was good but it wasn't well setted yet. I was not explosives as the Buried Phoenix lists and probabely too slow.
    But at least it less week to opponents' Surgical Extractions which are quite everywhere in sideboards and had quite a lot of card advantage.

  10. #90

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by frustanani View Post

    How are the test of who play Pteramander going ?
    I saw a nice UR list with them: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=29567&iddeck=247379
    and recently played against a list quite all mono blue with very little red splash (just to cast cc4 Phoenix if needed) with
    x Deep Analysis
    x Intuition
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    x Careful Study
    x Quiet Speculation
    4 Delver of Secrets
    x Pteramander
    3/4 Arclight Phoenix
    I think the idea was good but it wasn't well setted yet. I was not explosives as the Buried Phoenix lists and probabely too slow.
    But at least it less week to opponents' Surgical Extractions which are quite everywhere in sideboards and had quite a lot of card advantage.
    How is that guy playing Careful Study over Faithless Looting? Makes no sense at all.

    Anyway, when I got time I'm going to try to fit Pteramander in the BUG shell I got now and test out mono-U.

  11. #91

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Sure, i get it. Meanwhile i am steering away from this deck back to Dreadstill. Getting 12/12 tramplers is better than anything this deck does, lol. Cryptic Serpent has been a big letdown. I might try Pteramander in Dreadstill, but i think Mishra's factory is still better.
    Not a bad idea, the missing third threat could easily be Dreadnaught. The list would go...
    +4 Dreadnought
    +1 Trickbind
    +1 Vision Charm

  12. #92
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    I prefer Torpor Orb instead of Vision Charm (it's insane against some decks like Death and Taxes) but yeah, it's basically where I'm going with it. I am going to test Pteramander in Dreadstill, it's another 1-mana threat that gets in under Standstill.

    I think Unsubstantiate is going to be a fairly good card for both of these decks because it is an actual answer to Abrupt Decay, not permanently but it definitely buys you time. As a tempo deck this should work out really well. It's a 2 mana spell, which is a little rough, but I've found with Dreadstill it's easy to get to 2 mana (but it plays 20-22 lands.) I'm super tempted to try and cram a Piracy Charm in here, too.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  13. #93
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  14. #94
    Victory Dance ftw?
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I saw this recently. I cannot figure out why they're not playing Delver. Anyone know why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  15. #95

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Maybe he felt a 3/2 flyer is too small compared to 5/5s and 6/5s that also turn on Stubborn Denial. By not playing the 3/2, they essentially make the opposing Bolts into dead cards. Maybe he wants to leave mana open all early turns to either counter spells or instant speed cantrip when nothing worth countering is played and then play down giant game winning threats once the yard is full.

  16. #96
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Sorry for stating the obvious here but 1st place out of 43 players, that's great news for making legacy affordable.

  17. #97
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Maybe he felt a 3/2 flyer is too small compared to 5/5s and 6/5s that also turn on Stubborn Denial. By not playing the 3/2, they essentially make the opposing Bolts into dead cards. Maybe he wants to leave mana open all early turns to either counter spells or instant speed cantrip when nothing worth countering is played and then play down giant game winning threats once the yard is full.
    Good points. Judging by your tone, are you the pilot or deck designer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  18. #98
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    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    Sorry for stating the obvious here but 1st place out of 43 players, that's great news for making legacy affordable.
    Word of caution about that list vs long-term viability:
    -4x AK, 4x Thin Lizzy [Pteramander], 2x Serpent -> all of these die to RiP-type hate. Only other wincons: TNN x2, Clique x1, JTMS x1. A couple of 3/1s unsupported by removal and other dmg sources isnít a recipe for success.

    One of the more important things about the card Delver [not in that list] is that it is a yard-independent wincon, particularly in the early phase of the game where Stifle/Wasteland/Daze are going to be most effective together. While itís nice to see a given deck place well, there are very easily exploitable weaknesses here. There are other talking points in that list, but it is the susceptability to yard hate that will keep it from making legacy affordable [by being a viable option].

  19. #99

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Word of caution about that list vs long-term viability:
    -4x AK, 4x Thin Lizzy [Pteramander], 2x Serpent -> all of these die to RiP-type hate. Only other wincons: TNN x2, Clique x1, JTMS x1. A couple of 3/1s unsupported by removal and other dmg sources isnít a recipe for success.

    One of the more important things about the card Delver [not in that list] is that it is a yard-independent wincon, particularly in the early phase of the game where Stifle/Wasteland/Daze are going to be most effective together. While itís nice to see a given deck place well, there are very easily exploitable weaknesses here. There are other talking points in that list, but it is the susceptability to yard hate that will keep it from making legacy affordable [by being a viable option].
    You have a point but I guess rest in peace decks (that is to say Miracle) are not a big problem.
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=29588&iddeck=247800
    That list is do not want anything to touch the battlefield. To me for example it is week against Baleful Strix entering the battlefield.

    Interesting that he does not need Thought Scour or Mental Note and he runs 4 Accumulated Knowledge. Also + 2 cantrips + 3 Predict could be interesting. Probabely Predict is better with 4 Delver of Secrets

    I personally prefere lists like that
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=9037&iddeck=66022
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11599&iddeck=84889
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU50zCC5Mkw .. very funny game against RUG Delver
    (with Pteramander instead of Jace's Phantasm and some fetchlands & force of will)

  20. #100

    Re: Mono U Tempo Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by frustanani View Post
    You have a point but I guess rest in peace decks (that is to say Miracle) are not a big problem.
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=29588&iddeck=247800
    That list is do not want anything to touch the battlefield. To me for example it is week against Baleful Strix entering the battlefield.

    Interesting that he does not need Thought Scour or Mental Note and he runs 4 Accumulated Knowledge. Also + 2 cantrips + 3 Predict could be interesting. Probabely Predict is better with 4 Delver of Secrets

    I personally prefere lists like that
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=9037&iddeck=66022
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11599&iddeck=84889
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU50zCC5Mkw .. very funny game against RUG Delver
    (with Pteramander instead of Jace's Phantasm and some fetchlands & force of will)
    That was indeed very funny! I think the ono u won because he completely neutered a chunk of the rug deck (stifles, wastelands) and not being able to get back from that hole.

    Playing with fetches turns those stifles back on. Heck it even turns on the wastelands (ever been wastelanded with the brainstorm in response to therapy, inquisition or hymn?)..

    Iím quite impressed with the blue dragon actually. Iím gonna test 4 dragons, 4 pteromanders, 4 delver, 4 sprites, 2 snapcaster and possibly 2 ninjas (that look on the rug players face when he saw the ninja!).


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