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Thread: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

  1. #21
    Rob Rogers
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    If Leovold was WBG it would be basically trash though. Or it would be played in a 4color deck THAT IS FUCKING BLUE. It's sad to say but any card that can't be played by blue decks is basically garbage in legacy and it has been that way for years. But hey at least we can pyroblast him I guess.
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  2. #22
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    it's just a shame that they really hated on land destruction and mana denial strategies. this was one of the best ways to deal with greedy mana bases. we're still relying on wasteland, port, blood moon and to a lesser extent choke and back to basics.
    -rob

  3. #23

    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    it's just a shame that they really hated on land destruction and mana denial strategies. this was one of the best ways to deal with greedy mana bases. we're still relying on wasteland, port, blood moon and to a lesser extent choke and back to basics.
    More "free" LD just leads to a resugence of the UG Canadian Threshold decks with Stifle + Wasteland + Delver/Goyf/Stupidity.

  4. #24

    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    More "free" LD just leads to a resugence of the UG Canadian Threshold decks with Stifle + Wasteland + Delver/Goyf/Stupidity.
    What isn't stupid to you?

  5. #25

    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by HammafistRoob View Post
    If Leovold was WBG it would be basically trash though. Or it would be played in a 4color deck THAT IS FUCKING BLUE. It's sad to say but any card that can't be played by blue decks is basically garbage in legacy and it has been that way for years. But hey at least we can pyroblast him I guess.
    Bit of a stretch seeing how Thalia won the last Grand Prix

  6. #26
    Rob Rogers
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Really? I thought that was Wasteland, Port, and Vial.

    But on a slightly more serious note that's why I said basically. There's always corner cases, but thanks for taking the time to nit pick.
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  7. #27

    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    I mean, 2/5ths of the current DTB is non-blue; blue is obviously great in Legacy, but saying non-blue decks are all garbage is disingenuous.

  8. #28
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    There's always going to be some statistical outliers. Non blue may have won, but but top 32 was still almost 90% brainstorm blue stew piles
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  9. #29
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    There's always going to be some statistical outliers. Non blue may have won, but but top 32 was still almost 90% brainstorm blue stew piles
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
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    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  10. #30
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by pointicus View Post
    ...the real dirty problem with leo is that his anti-cantrip effect isn't symmetrical.
    Yes.

    If Leovold was symmetrical, would it even be playable? Only if its colors did not include blue. WGB does not get cantrips - has to work for a living.
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    If Leovold was symmetrical, would it even be playable? Only if its colors did not include blue. WGB does not get cantrips - has to work for a living.
    The issue is formatting complexity. You'd have to state that the controller's card from draw step does not count against Leo's tally (otherwise any instant cast on Leo controller's turn would result in no bonus card draw or no draw from draw step).

  12. #32
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    The issue is formatting complexity. You'd have to state that the controller's card from draw step does not count against Leo's tally (otherwise any instant cast on Leo controller's turn would result in no bonus card draw or no draw from draw step).
    I never got why the wording must be so complicated:

    Spells and abilities can't cause players to draw cards.
    Short and should get the job done.
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  13. #33
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    True, but I kinda like how there would be a way to "defeat" the extra draw ability. There becomes this metagame of Leo's controller trying to convince his opponent to spot remove stuff on his own turn while Leo's opponent wants to hit stuff on Leo's turn. Honestly, a much more interesting card.

    BTW, I don't think I was thinking that the entire card should be symmetrical, just the Spirit of the Lab part. But, whatever. Que sera sera.

    One more tidbit: True-Name Nemesis is pretty much unplayable in commander. Leovold is good-to-excellent.
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  14. #34

    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    True, but I kinda like how there would be a way to "defeat" the extra draw ability. There becomes this metagame of Leo's controller trying to convince his opponent to spot remove stuff on his own turn while Leo's opponent wants to hit stuff on Leo's turn. Honestly, a much more interesting card.

    BTW, I don't think I was thinking that the entire card should be symmetrical, just the Spirit of the Lab part. But, whatever. Que sera sera.

    One more tidbit: True-Name Nemesis is pretty much unplayable in commander. Leovold is good-to-excellent.
    Wasn't he banned in commander? A step above excellent perhaps.
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  15. #35
    Curmudgeon
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    If the wording had been "Whenever an opponent would draw a spell, they either pay 1 life per card drawn or skip that draw instead" it would've felt more appropriate to the black aspect, as Chains of Mephistopheles, for instance, or Underworld Dreams, have similar effects. It would also be a lot more balanced - it makes Brainstorm suck but even Ponder is still playable, but the incremental life loss could matter on a 3/3 body that also gives you and your permanents semi-shroud.
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  16. #36

    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Just could have been "symmetrical" (Players can't draw more than 1 card except from Leo trigger), like most hatebears are... TNN could have also been Protec from everything... the trend of overpowers creatures... well, but what do I know...
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  17. #37
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    Just could have been "symmetrical" (Players can't draw more than 1 card except from Leo trigger), like most hatebears are... TNN could have also been Protec from everything... the trend of overpowers creatures... well, but what do I know...
    This. These cards would be far less miserable if they were symmetrical effects
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  18. #38

    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Same reason why TNN should have been a white card insted of blue - it would have still been a stupid card to play against, but at least it would have made more sense color-pie wise. Maro's explanation that blue gets the most cards with non-color protection is bullshit and downright wrong.
    My settings on the app, nothing else just creature, protection and I select a color.

    White has 89 cards with "protection".
    Blue has 18 cards with "protection"
    Black has 27 cards with "protection"
    Red has 18 cards with "protection"
    Green has 29 cards with "protection"

    If you select just legacy
    W 88
    U 17
    B 27
    R 17
    G 29


  19. #39

    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    In case your curious, looks like the 3 cards that aren't legacy legal are Un cards.
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    Re: wouldn't have been more interesting to see Leovold as a WGB card?

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    Progenitus is technically blue.
    Progenitus also technically has protection from all colors.

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