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Thread: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

  1. #61
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)(also Budget, it turns out)

    Well for white I have 2x Sanctum, Karakas, Savannah. For white or black I have 4x Utopia Sprawl, 3x Abundant Growth. So really that's like 14 white sources, 11 black. I have also Wished for Karakas just for the mana in emergency situations.
    Early one morning while making the round,
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  2. #62
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)(also Budget, it turns out)

    Just saw your decklist getting published, congrats on that

    Is Wickerbough Elder just a funny try-out or is it actually better than Rec Sage/Pridemage in some matchups? (it's a bigger creature, but also more expensive to cast+activate so that seems more important than the extra power/toughness in a format this fast?)

    Was Spore Frog worth it so far? :-) seems cute, but how many applications does it have? (With Wish it's a 3 mana Fog while probably time walking yourself on mana unless it's turn 4+, so is it better than just doing the stuff you wanted to do to progress your own game plan? They can still attack the next turn so you only drew 1 more card/played 1 more land while the opponent did so as well)

  3. #63
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)(also Budget, it turns out)

    Thanks, I was excited to see it go up. Wickerbough has been good against control, which is where I bring it in as my GSZ target. Against Stompy decks I bring in Rec Sage. But for two extra mana, instead of having just a 1-for-1 trade, you get a 4/4 body that can meaningfully interact with most boards. There's still testing to be done, it's a fairly new change, but I think the body matters.

    Spore Frog is there largely for Elves and Infect, with specific situational applications, especially versus Stompy decks. I'm actually still debating whether he should be sided in, especially on the draw versus Stompy decks, where he's a two mana fog with GSZ instead.
    Early one morning while making the round,
    I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
    I went right home and I went to bed,
    I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.

  4. #64

    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)(also Budget, it turns out)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    Went 5-0 with the following changes:

    -1 Exploration
    +1 Gaea's Touch

    -1 Abundant Growth
    -1 Solitary Confinement
    -1 Sterling Grove

    +1 Ixalan's Binding
    +1 Banishing Light
    +1 Replenish

    Sideboard:

    1 Argothian Enchantress
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Karakas
    1 Doomwake Giant
    1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
    1 Wickerbough Elder
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Aegis of the Gods
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Spore Frog
    1 Seal of Primordium
    1 Solitary Confinement
    2 Choke

    Went 2-0 against Azban Maverick and U/W Landstill, 2-1 against Steel Stompy, U/R Delver and 4c(Witchmaw) Stoneblade.

    Having Replenish is amazing. I wish there were more non-enchantment spots open for a second. It just flat out wins games you shouldn't win.

    Having more targeted removal helps in the blue-based match-ups, but I took out Cast Out versus Delver.

    In this version I'm just preferring Gaea's Touch to Exploration. Banking mana and dodging Chalice at 1 has been nice.

    I actually was really liking Devoted Druid + Vizier of Remedies, with the former MD and the latter as a Wish target, but the spots are so tight.
    Hi. I pulled out your early version of Enchantress today, the one from top 8. Had a very good time playing it. I had noticed that I wanted a creature beater I could grab main deck with Green Sun. I really like the Kamahl, Fist of Krosa. I can just picture land wiping the opponent with Doomwake. Hope you have some more streams / YouTube games so I can see proper piloting techniques.

  5. #65
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)(also Budget, it turns out)

    Re: Chameleon Colossus. I haven't tested enough real games to tell if it's actually good or not but so far the card seems sweet. Having the option to turn around and present a threat on turn 4 or 5 is exactly what I was hoping for. Highlight was GSZing it out immediately after my opponent dropped Leo, but I still almost lost to a Snapcaster chump block. Apparently that card has text.

    I'm actually questioning the wishboard Argothian. imo we want to deploy a girl ASAP and having one less chance at a turn 2 play-and-draw isn't worth the extra flexibility. Then again I may just be wrong.

  6. #66
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)(also Budget, it turns out)

    Btw Spatula: mind still sharing the list that won you last BLC? :-) iirc I saw you playing a Qasali or Rec sage or revoker or something else that you had already cut for your latest Mtgo 5-0 list

    (So it would be useful to add to my database/spreadsheet of succesful Enchantress decks)

  7. #67
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)(also Budget, it turns out)

    Hey, sorry for delayed response, haven't been magicking as much the past week.

    Palacejailer - thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the deck. In reference to your message, the video was just me jokingly referring to how All is Dust is such a beating against us.

    Watersaw - I've gone and forth with it actually. If you're staggering your enchantress, replacing the Argothian wish-target with an Eidolon isn't that bad, but I don't know if I've really felt a shortage of MD enchantress effects to be a major issue.

    Fjaulnir - yeah sure thing


    4x Enchantress's Presence
    3x Argothian Enchantress
    1x Eidolon of Blossoms
    3x Green Sun's Zenith
    4x Living Wish
    1x Doomwake Giant
    1x Replenish

    4x Wild Growth
    4x Utopia Sprawl
    2x Gaea's Touch
    3x Abundant Growth
    2x Ground Seal

    4x Elephant Grass
    1x Solitary Confinement
    1x Oblivion Ring
    1x Quarantine Field
    1x Ixalan's Binding

    1x Savannah
    1x Bayou
    3x Windswept Heath
    1x Wooded Foothills
    1x Karakas
    2x Serra's Sanctum
    11x Forest

    SB:
    1x Argothian Enchantress
    1x Karakas
    1x Doomwake Giant
    1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1x Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    1x Spore Frog
    1x Phyrexian Revoker
    1x Reclamation Sage
    1x Qasali Pridemage
    1x Leafcrown Dryad

    2x Choke
    1x Seal of Primordium
    1x Solitary Confinement

    *in general*

    this build was pretty specifically built to address the weaknesses of Enchantress in a DRS-dominated meta game, and with the potential increase of Reanimator by far the worst match-up, it's going to take some time to tell the right direction moving forward.
    Early one morning while making the round,
    I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
    I went right home and I went to bed,
    I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.

  8. #68
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)(also Budget, it turns out)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msAQsKetLR4&t=1614s Mengucci takes the deck for a spin! pretty neat. I think he could've been 5-0 if he hadn't forgotten about Karakas as a Wish target versus Czech (this was recorded pre-bannings going into effect). As it is he ended 4-1.

    I got another 5-0 yesterday, so also I rescind my earlier doubts about the deck in the new meta.

    delta versus the last decklist posted:


    -1 Ground Seal
    +1 Seal of Primordium

    -1 Quarantine Field
    +1 Cast Out

    -1 Oblivion Ring
    +1 Banishing Light

    -1 Ixalan's Binding
    +1 Mirri's Guile

    -1 Elephant Grass
    +1 Solitary Confinement

    sb:

    -1 Leafcrown Dryad
    +1 Aegis of the Gods

    -1 Solitary Confinement
    +1 Dryad Militant

    Beat 2x Canadian Threshold, along with Sneak and Show, RIP-Helm Control, and 8 Moon/Dragon Stompy. I've been bringing in Militant against Canadian Thresh since it can make Threshold impossible to reach and if it's dropped early enough can weaken Goyfs, but it just hasn't been in my opening for any of the games. I think Canadian Thresh is favorable but probably not as much so as Grixis was. On the plus side, Stifle is very easy for this deck to play around, and they don't have any post-board discard, and their ways to kill Argothian are much worse and can hit their own guys. On the downside, Grass is kinda bad against Goyf.

    The MD Seal of Primordium is iffy - it's still dead against the top deck, like before, but it helped a lot versus xStompy and against RIP-Helm obviously. I don't think Ground Seal mattered in any of these match-ups, but people still play enough Life from the Loam and Snapcaster that I still think it belongs in the deck.
    Early one morning while making the round,
    I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
    I went right home and I went to bed,
    I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.

  9. #69
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    Did some major revisions to the original post, and am starting to add play videos.

    Currently testing a couple things:

    -2 Gaea's Touch
    +1 Ground Seal
    +1 Cavern of Souls

    I'm trying out 21 lands to see if it reduces my mulligan rate, but I did want a land that gave me something. Given the amount of counterspells around right now I thought I'd give Cavern a whirl, it's probably not good in most Enchantress lists but maybe the Wish version can get more use out of it. I also wanted to go back up to 2 Ground Seals to deal with all the Snapcasters and LftL running around, but I think MD Seal of Primordium has been good, so I didn't want to cut that.
    Early one morning while making the round,
    I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
    I went right home and I went to bed,
    I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.

  10. #70
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    Threw in a quartet of Brain Maggot and played around a bit. It was surprisingly not terrible. Having real, honest to God disruption is such a good feeling. Doubley so when you also cantrip twice.

    Did have a few situations where I wanted to Wish for mana, but adding a basic Swamp and like 2 Verdant Catacombs might alleviate that. Don't want to jump the gun on that. EDIT: I should add, black sources were 4 fetches for one dual land, 4 Sprawl and 3 Abundant Growth. Had some trouble casting it in a timely manner.

  11. #71
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    Nice, I've wanted to test that. Obviously seems like your combo game goes up, but is it md or sb? Maybe just go up a couple fetches? Might make Gaea's Touch have to turn into Exploration
    Early one morning while making the round,
    I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
    I went right home and I went to bed,
    I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.

  12. #72

    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    Exploration is much better than Gaea's touch if combined with 2 Sanctum to cast Emrakul.

    More generally, I think Gaea's touch is worth playing only in a super heavy basic forests build only.
    It is as good or better that Exploration only if you have at least 2 basics in the 3 first turns draws.
    If you play 11 basics, the probability that it actually happens is below 60%.

    Still, I like the card, and I play it in a casual mono-green devotion deck of my own, with 16 basic forest ;)
    Pox -- Miracles -- Lands -- Candelabra Enchantress -- Dragon Stompy -- Eldrazi Stompy -- Sultai Control

  13. #73
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    That's a pretty specific scenario where you've almost certainly got the game locked. Generally speaking, Exploration is better in two scenarios; when you're already winning/going off, or when you're against combo decks, simply because it can enable a turn 2 Living Wish for Teeg/Revoker, and in some specific scenarios like against a slow Reanimator hand with Tyrant where Exploration can keep you from losing your board. But against fair decks, Touch is a much less dead card because those decks almost all run at least some mana-dependent disruption, even if it's just Spell Pierce, so being able to set up for a big turn 3 is pretty good against them.

    This is all assuming of course that you have a high basic forest count. Obviously without that, you can't really consider Gaea's Touch.
    Early one morning while making the round,
    I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
    I went right home and I went to bed,
    I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.

  14. #74
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    Nice, I've wanted to test that. Obviously seems like your combo game goes up, but is it md or sb? Maybe just go up a couple fetches? Might make Gaea's Touch have to turn into Exploration
    Had all 4 in the main, while that made Sneak and Show a much better matchup in retrospect it was probably a bit aggressive. I don't think Exploration would have helped much, issues arose from not drawing lands of the proper color fast enough but I still was able to act in a meaningful way, whether it was playing a girl or Wishing.

    That being said I've been playing without Gaea's Touch and even now I'd probably add it over Exploration just for the sacrifice ability.

  15. #75

    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    What a great addition to Enchantress!




    Maybe run it with

  16. #76

    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    Unfortunately he does not have trample nor flying. Giving him haste is an option, but wasting a slot just for that does not seem right.
    Maybe with Emrakul, for record-breaking damages :)
    Pox -- Miracles -- Lands -- Candelabra Enchantress -- Dragon Stompy -- Eldrazi Stompy -- Sultai Control

  17. #77

    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)



    This is real addition to virtually all Enchantress decks. We will do crazy things with that.
    Pox -- Miracles -- Lands -- Candelabra Enchantress -- Dragon Stompy -- Eldrazi Stompy -- Sultai Control

  18. #78
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    Got a few games in and have some thoughts.

    Peacekeeper is a must play. The card can just win you so many games even without Helm to go over it.

    I'm finally ready to admit that 4 Serra's Sanctum is too many.

    Been running 3 Brain Maggot main and one in the board and honestly I love it. The card just never feels bad; even if it's not eating a combo piece or clearing the way for a Wish it's just a solid two-or-more for one. More than once I've just used it as a value wish against fair decks. Thinking of supplementing it with some sort of removal or other form of disruption. I was running Suppression Field alongside it a bit and it wasn't too bad. Not sure if that's where i want to be though.

    That being said, there's some tension with Gaea's Touch in that you want enough non-Forests to be able to play it consistently. So it pushes you to play more control and less turn 3 Doomwakes. I'm down to 10 basic forests and it hasn't felt like enough.

  19. #79
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    I mean I get Peacekeeper, she's really good in a lot of situations. She does feel like a meta-call though, like she's basically useless against every deck running red (except for SnS of course, although it seems like versions that don't run a Wish-board are on the decline).

    I like Brain Maggot, but it does feel like maybe not the best time for it, given the rise of Grixis Control and Kolaghan's Command. Like it's not the end of the world if Miracles StPs it, especially if you drew a card, but giving value to the Commands seems like a liability. Have you had a chance to test them in that matchup to see whether the pros outweigh the cons?

    On the other hand, maybe the match-up is so favorable that it doesn't matter.

    I do like that Brain Maggot is another 2 drop. Having another business spell for when you have 3 mana on turn 2 and are using Abundant Growth to dig seems alright.

    I don't get how so many Enchantress players run 4 Sanctum. I have to mulligan enough with just the 2. Either I'm really unlucky or people aren't being honest with themselves about the impact the card can have on the opening hand.
    Early one morning while making the round,
    I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
    I went right home and I went to bed,
    I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.

  20. #80
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    Re: The Witch House (Nearly Mono-green Enchantress)

    Played pretty not-great in Richmond, making tweaks and changes damn near every 6 hours. Here's what I'm looking at right now.

    Engine
    1 Enlightened Tutor The main use of this has been assembling Helm combo mid-chain but that seems pretty weak since I should be winning by then anyway.
    1 Abundant Growth This feels incorrect. The mana fixing is important but replacing a card in the opening hand feels even moreso.
    4 Argothian Enchantress I think this is right in game 1. Against heavy discard/counterspell matchups I've been siding out one as a Wish target. Can pay off big if they go on the Surgical Extraction plan.
    3 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Living Wish Dropped down from 4 after having a few games where I lost with 2 or 3 of these in hand and not enough mana to do anything real.
    4 Enchantress's Presence
    1 Eidolon of Blossoms
    Ramp
    4 Utopia Sprawl
    3 Wild Growth
    1 Carpet of Flowers I was talked into this by a Grixis player and it seems fine so far. If there's anything to add it's how great it feels to not actually need an untapped land to keep chaining.
    3 Serra's Sanctum To answer your question, it's 100% dishonesty. The occasional 4 mana turn 2 is not worth blowing yourself out. We're not Elves. Our combo chain starts much later and while Sanctum can get us a fast start it's too high variance to plan around before we set up a critical draw engine. Speaking of, mulligans are something we need to have a very long talk about because our openings are terrible. I could maybe see a wishboard Sanctum if the slots weren't already super tight.
    Utility
    4 Elephant Grass
    3 Brain Maggot Having a source of early-game action is what attracted me to this card in the first place. The Spiral did manage to win me an Omnintell match and helped out against Lands (exiling Life from the Loam is pretty good) but failed to pick up a single game in 3 matches vs. Storm (Could have gotten one but I misplayed).
    2 Rest in Peace I wasn't planning on running this. Ground Seal is probably better vs. Snapcaster Mage, but there's a good chunk of value in stranding Gurmag Angler too.
    1 Seal of Primordium I have no idea if this belongs in the main but right now my sideboard is really tight so he's on this side. It's not the worst dead draw, but still really situational.
    1 Banishing Light
    Payoff
    2 Solitary Confinement
    1 Doomwake Giant Is this better as a wish or in the main? No idea. See Seal of Primordium.
    1 Helm of Obedience The only thing I hate about this card is how divorced it is from the rest of the deck. Enlightened Tutor makes this somewhat less bad but still.
    Fetches and friends
    1 Savannah
    1 Bayou
    1 Verdant Catacomb This I know is incorrect. Should have at least 2
    3 Windswept Heath Possibly go down one.
    Basics
    1 Swamp
    1 Plains
    9 Forest

    Sideboard is as follows.
    Anti-blue suite
    2 Choke General counter-or-die spell
    1 Replenish vs. counters and discard
    Removal
    1 Swords to Plowshares Delvers, Gurmags, Thalias, 20/20s, etc.
    1 Journey to Nowhere I lost 2 matches to Sanctum Prelate stranding stuff in my hand. This was a second StP but I swapped it out in pure frustration, and was immediately rewarded with being able to cantrip on an empty board. Maybe this replaces maindeck Seal of Primordium.
    Anti-combo
    1 Thoughtseize The logic here was to have a piece of spell-based interaction instead of another permanent. It was alright.
    1 Brain Maggot Double duty as a value wish, comes into the main vs. combo
    1 Gaddock Teeg Wish game 1, GSZ game 2 and 3
    Wishes
    1 Karakas
    1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation in theory I wish for this in games 2 and 3. In actuality I didn't live that long post-board.
    2 Faerie Macabre Can bring 0, 1 or 2 into the main depending on the matchup. I think you keep at least one as a wish vs. Lands (which I did beat) and bring both against Reanimator (which I didn't).
    1 Peacekeeper I'm wondering when the right turn to deploy it is against anything red, usually I hold it back and just try to draw more cards. By the time I deploy it's an all-in play that's dead to an upstairs bolt either way.
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    ?????
    1 ________ For the last slot I'm considering something to attack manabases. Although not a common sight, right now any Cloudpost match is straight unwinnable (EDIT: you can probably slip past UG 12 Post on a show and tell plan by assembling helm or getting lucky with wishes, but lock pieces are bad news). I don't think that destabalizing our own lands even further with a Taiga for Blood Moon is correct. Perhaps Damping Sphere of all things fits in. It's fetchable with E.Tutor and has text against Elves and Storm. Whether it does more harm than good is something to be tested.
    (edited for formatting)

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