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Thread: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

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  1. #1
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    Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    This list just took down the SCG Modern open and didn't drop a single match over the weekend (he only conceded R15 to a friend after going 14-0):

    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=116800

    I could see some variant of it being viable in Legacy as well. It packs tons of disruption.

  2. #2

    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    That deck is not playable in legacy. Wasteland eats it alive. Combo ignores it and combos out. It's basically a bad Maverick deck. And when is the last time Maverick made any waves in legacy?

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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Feel like an optimal list is likely just a worse version of death and taxes.
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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    That deck is not playable in legacy. Wasteland eats it alive. Combo ignores it and combos out. It's basically a bad Maverick deck. And when is the last time Maverick made any waves in legacy?
    My win-and-in for the Top 8 of Eternal Weekend was against Maverick, so it came really close to making waves.
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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Actually, I brewed a Human list for Legacy, a year ago, and have had a blast missing out on several top 8 from inches.

    My last build is in my signature (Rainbow SWAT aka Human Squad).

    And the primer (unfortunately in French but Google translate shall give you the general idea) can be found here:

    Human Primer

    Enjoy.
    Last edited by Ralf; 10-24-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  6. #6

    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    This just seems like a worse version of fish/merfolk/goblins. Not good enough for legacy.

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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    That deck is not playable in legacy. Wasteland eats it alive. Combo ignores it and combos out. It's basically a bad Maverick deck. And when is the last time Maverick made any waves in legacy?
    I don't know if its playable but this is just a very arrogant view...

    Combo "can" also struggle with DnTs Playset of Thalia as a Turn 2 Play. The modern brew already has 4x Kitesail Freebooter, 4x Meddling Mage, 4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben as cc2 Maindeck cards to fight combo decks and also contains Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Reflector Mage against Creature-Combos (Elves have a hard time to deal with Thalia 2.0 and Refelctor Mage can fight S&S or Reanimator etc.). Yes Turn 2 can be to slow for legacy, but you can always try to find room for Mox&Petal Stuff for more free wins G1 (since combo have a hard time to fight permanent disruption G1 too).

    Wasteland eat many decks at legacy if you are able catch someone offguard with landdraws or have the right free counters in hand too. That 4c Pile is greedy as hell and was still the most played deck at EW (with no Lands, DnT top 8 in terms of mana disruption). 4 Noble + 4 Vial can also ignore Wastelands to some degree.

    I dont say the Human.pile is awesome for legacy but players should be more open for new ideas outside of a blue cantrip shell!
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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    I don't know if its playable but this is just a very arrogant view...
    Don't bother mate. Haters gonna hate it anyway. Until they get properly spanked several times by it...

  9. #9

    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    I think that the creature base of this deck is arguably more powerful than DNT/Maverick (and in Legacy this would get to play Mother of Runes too, which is also a Human).

    A big strength of the Thalia/Vial decks though is their ability to play wasteland and I'm not sure if you can fit Wasteland in your 5c Mantis Rider deck without fucking up the mana too much.

    Saying that a Vial/Hierarch deck loses to wasteland, or that a 4x Meddling Mage 4x Freebooter 4x Thalia deck folds to combo is fairly ridiculous. The hardest matchup imo would probably be some kind of mondo value deck (shardless, jund etc)

  10. #10

    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    To survive in a format with wasteland you're definitely going to need a needle effect. Revoker fits the mold best, but this is legacy so you will probably can't afford to wait for 2 mana.
    Other than that I've always been skeptical about hatebears (But all humans so call it: Hate-mans? Pride and Prejudice? The Human Experience? (It's suffering. Suffering is the Human Experience)) in eternal formats, even if there's a proof of concept in vintage, death and taxes here in legacy, and this deck's own performance in modern.

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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    I think that the creature base of this deck is arguably more powerful than DNT/Maverick (and in Legacy this would get to play Mother of Runes too, which is also a Human).

    A big strength of the Thalia/Vial decks though is their ability to play wasteland and I'm not sure if you can fit Wasteland in your 5c Mantis Rider deck without fucking up the mana too much.

    Saying that a Vial/Hierarch deck loses to wasteland, or that a 4x Meddling Mage 4x Freebooter 4x Thalia deck folds to combo is fairly ridiculous. The hardest matchup imo would probably be some kind of mondo value deck (shardless, jund etc)
    You sum it up pretty well.

    You can't play wasteland. That's the point.
    This deck is no maverick nor D&T. It is much more a swarm deck ala Merfolk/Gob/Slivo based on permanents' interactions rather than stack's interactions.

    Actually, as you pointed out, the hardest MU is mondo value deck or any deck having access to a sweeper that leaves you in a very tight spot where it will take time to build a board again and where on a 1 to 1 basis all your creatures/draw are inferior to those of your oppo.

    Combo (save the T1 kill) and Tempo are not so bad. I would even say that with 4 MM 4 Freebooter 4 Thalia like in the modern's brew, combo should be a walk in the park.

    The deck, in my opinion, can go both way:
    - Vial +NH -> to power up a lot of CMC 3
    - Vial without NH -> to emphasis the swarm nature of the deck with a CMC 2

    Since Miracle's fall, I guess the NH version is viable again.

    A year and half ago when I came up with my brew, NH was ditched because it is a terrible top deck when you try to recover from a sweeper and you don't usually profit from the exaltation's trigger when your A plan is to attack with everything you have on the board.

    That's said "Mantis Rider" taught some respect to my opponents ala Serra Avenger. It is a "real" beat stick that should not be overlooked...


    The amount of "specialized skills" is so high among humans' creatures that I called the deck "SWAT". You need an effect/skill ? there is a human with it. Period.

    I would be very pleased if some players buy into this idea because I believe this archetype has leg.

  12. #12

    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    I think that the creature base of this deck is arguably more powerful than DNT/Maverick (and in Legacy this would get to play Mother of Runes too, which is also a Human).

    A big strength of the Thalia/Vial decks though is their ability to play wasteland and I'm not sure if you can fit Wasteland in your 5c Mantis Rider deck without fucking up the mana too much.

    Saying that a Vial/Hierarch deck loses to wasteland, or that a 4x Meddling Mage 4x Freebooter 4x Thalia deck folds to combo is fairly ridiculous. The hardest matchup imo would probably be some kind of mondo value deck (shardless, jund etc)
    Except this deck has no selection. Either it's in your hand and you win, or you have to hope you survive long enough to cast a Recruiter?
    Edit: I Agree that's better than nothing, having two ways to do it, but it's not a slam dunk in a deck, say, running a hundred cantrips.

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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    There seems like there are a few different directions you can take this archetype - the core seems best as WB with Mother, Thalia, Confidant, Freebooter - as value plays and Champion and Lieutenant as agro.

    From there White offers depth in Recruiter, Palace Jailer effects, Canonist and Containment Priest sb. Black facilitates Orzov Pontiff.

    Blue can provide Meddling Mage and Reflector Mage - though I can’t tell it’s better than the White exile creatures.

    Green can offer Noble Hierarch, Mayor, Sylvan Safekeeper.

    Red provides Magus of the Moon, pingers and ‘Shatter’ effects.

    I think 4-5 color builds have merit though I’m not sure if having better mana in 3 colors isn’t superior.


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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Quote Originally Posted by from Cairo View Post
    There seems like there are a few different directions you can take this archetype - the core seems best as WB with Mother, Thalia, Confidant, Freebooter - as value plays and Champion and Lieutenant as agro.

    From there White offers depth in Recruiter, Palace Jailer effects, Canonist and Containment Priest sb. Black facilitates Orzov Pontiff.

    Blue can provide Meddling Mage and Reflector Mage - though I can’t tell it’s better than the White exile creatures.

    Green can offer Noble Hierarch, Mayor, Sylvan Safekeeper.

    Red provides Magus of the Moon, pingers and ‘Shatter’ effects.

    I think 4-5 color builds have merit though I’m not sure if having better mana in 3 colors isn’t superior.


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    Red doesn't offer much, as Magus of the Moon nukes your own manabase.

    Noble Hierarch seems to play a major role to stabilize the manabase and make it more resilient against mana denial, alongside Vial.

    Pikula seems like a great denial tool. Reflector Mage gets its job done even if it's killed, and in combination with Pikula it can stop certain creatures permanently. Probably a combination of Reflector Mage and Palace Jailer might be best.

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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    There was an old deck called Baseruption which played Shadowmage Infiltrator (alongside Dark Confidant), which happens to be a Human, too.
    Maybe it's worth consideration, if this deck needs a draw engine and Confidant doesn't fit or isn't enough.

    Red offers Harsh Mentor, which I recall was considered Legacy playable when spoiled. And Grim Lavamancer, but it needs fetchlands.

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    Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Nothing substantial but I sleeved up a variant for a weekly 12 man and piloted it to 3-1 tonight.

    I ran

    4 Aether Vial

    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 Karakas
    2 Plains
    2 Scrubland
    1 Tundra
    1 Plateau
    1 Windswept Heath
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Arid Mesa

    4 Champion of the Parish
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Thalia Guardian is Thraben
    4 Meddling Mage
    4 Kitesail Freebooter
    4 Thalia’s Lieutenant
    4 Dark Confidant
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    2 Orhzov Pontiff
    1 Banisher Priest
    1 Mangara of Corondor
    1 Palace Jailer

    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Mirran Crusader
    2 Magus of the Moon
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Grafdiggers Cage
    1 Izzet Staticaster
    1 Manic Vandal

    I faced

    BW Deathrite Ale Rd1 2-1 and Wasteland took him off White 2 games.

    Infect Rd2 1-2 I was able to take the middle game with Cavern fueled Freebooter and Meddling Mages shutting down business and his counters being dead in hand. The other 2 games a threat landed and lethaled

    Elves Rd3 2-0 I got some early Champion pressure and Mom with Swiftboots taking a Glimpse. Moms proGreened to push Lethal G2 I had Champion into Freebooter into Orzhov Pontiff into Mom + Banisher Priest into Canonist + Cage.

    Czech Pile Rd4 2-0 Game 1 I ground out and was able to close before he established control. Game 2 I had fetch Plains Mom into 2 drop into Magus of the Moon to his board of Strix and duals. I was able to follow up with a few more guys castable off Plains and eventually Aether Vial.

    Again just early testing of this configuration. Figured I’d share.


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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    One thing I found yesterday was Wizard Mentor - it's quite expensive without Vials to do full laps since it bounces itself, too. On the flipside, it's fetchable with Recruiter and could do some serious grinding. It also synergizes with stuff like Pontiff, Palace Jailer and Thalia’s Lieutenant.

    @from Cairo: How much mana do you have lying around normally? I'm still interested into the Mirror Entity tech.

  18. #18

    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    One thing I found yesterday was Wizard Mentor - it's quite expensive without Vials to do full laps since it bounces itself, too. On the flipside, it's fetchable with Recruiter and could do some serious grinding. It also synergizes with stuff like Pontiff, Palace Jailer and Thalia’s Lieutenant.

    @from Cairo: How much mana do you have lying around normally? I'm still interested into the Mirror Entity tech.
    I think it fills a similar role to Reflector mage, which I feel is better.

  19. #19

    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Wizard Mentor bounces your own creatures so it's very different from Reflector Mage.

    It's cute, but probably far too weak most of the time.

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    Re: Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

    Most of the games ended with 3-5 land. Mirror Entity might be fine.


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