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Thread: Punishing Thieves

  1. #21
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    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Doishy View Post
    G1 versus Eldrazi you play two lands in a turn. Sweet deck though.
    Oops that was sloppy. Not sure it mattered much that game.

  2. #22
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    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Maagler View Post
    Oops that was sloppy. Not sure it mattered much that game.
    I think it did as it meant you had the hard-cast Force of Will the next turn (I mean opponent really should have double-wasted first but still....) but anyways, no big deal.

    Dack-Thief is one of my favourite interactions so I would love to try this as a build concept start (don't own enough to go for the full deck). What is the minimum number and ratio of Thieves to Dacks you think would work?
    The Doomsday Codex



    We're catching bullets in our teeth,
    Its hard to do but they're so sweet.
    And if they take a couple out,
    We try to work things out.....

    Meow.

  3. #23

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    My first list started with 4 Dacks 2 Thieves, but I'm currently at 2 Dacks, 1 Thief, I wouldn't really go below 2 Dacks, and honestly, I wish I could find room for a third, but there is a bit of a glut at the 3 drop slot.

  4. #24

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Yeah saw that too. Nevertheless, deck (dack?) looks fantastic. Feel like sleeving it up.

  5. #25

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    I took some of the ideas I've gleaned from this thread and made some changes to my deck, based in part on what I expect at GP Santa Clara.

    From the list on the front page:


    Main
    -1 Search for Azcanta
    -1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    -1 Thoughtseize
    -1 Ponder

    +1 Tasigur
    +1 Collective Brutality
    +1 Rise//Fall
    +1 Lightning Bolt

    SB:
    -1 Bitterblossom
    -1 Rise//Fall
    -1 Invasive Surgery
    -1 Duress

    +1 Thoughtseize
    +1 Force of Will
    +1 Hydroblast
    +1 Collective Brutality

    As you can see, I am trying to hedge more against burn with an additional hydroblast and two collective brutalities. The bolt was because I wanted one more clean answer to Leo, and I like having access to bolt. This felt like a lot of changes, but so far I am happy with them. I think these changes are for the best, because the worse matchups gain significant points, and the lost points are small, and largely to already strong matchups.

    Edit: I have played two leagues with this build now and am 9-1. My thoughts are:

    Brutality is kind of meh against things that aren't burn or delver but I don't want to cut it. Maybe I will move it to the board and bring the 4th force main.
    Tasigur giving raw cards for brainstorm and Dack is cool, even if they give you junk.
    I'm repeatedly happy with how Rise//Fall plays in this deck against a wide variety of decks, and it remains easier to cast than hymn.
    Last edited by Stryfo; 11-09-2017 at 08:51 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfo View Post
    Brutality is kind of meh against things that aren't burn or delver but I don't want to cut it. Maybe I will move it to the board and bring the 4th force main.
    Tasigur giving raw cards for brainstorm and Dack is cool, even if they give you junk.
    I'm repeatedly happy with how Rise//Fall plays in this deck against a wide variety of decks, and it remains easier to cast than hymn.
    I tested out rise//fall after your suggestion, seems decent in the combo matchup which is something I'm looking to improve. Also had an interesting play against reanimator where I bounced a creature from his grave and a creature he had in play. while I don't expect that to come up much I think that it is a good flex spot for right now and will catch many players off guard.

    I think one of the more powerful aspects of the deck is the fact that people seem to have a hard time figuring out what to do against the deck. they either try to oversideboard to fight the graveyard or they lean to heavily on things like chalice/blood moon/leovold to try to get them there.

  7. #27
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    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfo View Post
    I took some of the ideas I've gleaned from this thread and made some changes to my deck, based in part on what I expect at GP Santa Clara.

    From the list on the front page:


    Main
    -1 Search for Azcanta
    -1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    -1 Thoughtseize
    -1 Ponder

    +1 Tasigur
    +1 Collective Brutality
    +1 Rise//Fall
    +1 Lightning Bolt

    SB:
    -1 Bitterblossom
    -1 Rise//Fall
    -1 Invasive Surgery
    -1 Duress

    +1 Thoughtseize
    +1 Force of Will
    +1 Hydroblast
    +1 Collective Brutality

    As you can see, I am trying to hedge more against burn with an additional hydroblast and two collective brutalities. The bolt was because I wanted one more clean answer to Leo, and I like having access to bolt. This felt like a lot of changes, but so far I am happy with them. I think these changes are for the best, because the worse matchups gain significant points, and the lost points are small, and largely to already strong matchups.

    Edit: I have played two leagues with this build now and am 9-1. My thoughts are:

    Brutality is kind of meh against things that aren't burn or delver but I don't want to cut it. Maybe I will move it to the board and bring the 4th force main.
    Tasigur giving raw cards for brainstorm and Dack is cool, even if they give you junk.
    I'm repeatedly happy with how Rise//Fall plays in this deck against a wide variety of decks, and it remains easier to cast than hymn.
    You planning on doing a quick side boarding guide for some of the most prevelant decks? (Pile, D&T, Storm, Delver, S&S, etc.)

  8. #28

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    @itrytostorm:

    I'm happy to include my sideboarding advice, in fact, I did so for some matchups in an earlier post. I'll put all of this information together in the original post.

  9. #29
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    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfo View Post
    @itrytostorm:

    I'm happy to include my sideboarding advice, in fact, I did so for some matchups in an earlier post. I'll put all of this information together in the original post.
    Have you thought about trying flip Jace? Or have you tried and it underwhelmed?

  10. #30

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by itrytostorm View Post
    Have you thought about trying flip Jace? Or have you tried and it underwhelmed?
    I have tried him out as a one of, the only problem that i have found is that he doesnt provide a clock in the matchups where you actually need a threat.

  11. #31

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    For those interested in seeing how this deck generally plays, I'm going to stream the Legacy Challenge around 8:00am PST today with my most recent list, I'd love it if you came and joined =)

    twitch.tv/stryfo

  12. #32

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfo View Post
    For those interested in seeing how this deck generally plays, I'm going to stream the Legacy Challenge around 8:00am PST today with my most recent list, I'd love it if you came and joined =)

    twitch.tv/stryfo
    Do you have an updated list by chance :)?

  13. #33
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    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjastill View Post
    Do you have an updated list by chance :)?
    Sadly the list was stolen.

  14. #34

  15. #35

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Anyone know if there is a Discord group for either this and/or general Grixis control/thieves etc..?

  16. #36

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Hi Stryfo!

    Thanks for sharing this spicy list, i love it.

    I've found it here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/984707#paper and i'm considering to give it a spin in real :)

    Just some random question:

    - why Phyrexian Revoker over Spyglasses ?

    It seems more a control card here and you do not want it to be removed so easily. Spyglasses give us information about the opponent's hand which is not irrelevant for a control deck. It also blocks thespian stage, wasteland, karakas for leovold, port, etc etc.

    - why Ob Nixilis Reignited ?
    In which matchups you think is good?
    I think a 5 mana spells should be more impactful :P

    Bye and thanks again!

  17. #37

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    I've had the chance to take the current version of this deck out a couple of times for LGS weekly events (no IQs or Premier Events yet). Getting the hang of Dack has been a learning curve for me, but I like how he can either generate "free" draws with Punishing Fire discards or clear chaff off the top of the deck post-Ponder or Brainstorm.

    Chandra has been A+ for me. The 4cc is relevant, and it's been helpful to hold it back from counters and to clear out the creatures before jamming it so that it sticks around and does work.

    I've been owned a couple times by Storm, mostly due to suboptimal sideboarding by me and some unfortunate mulligans. Stryfo's sideboarding guide in this thread should help remedy that for future matches, although I do feel like it's a matchup that I'll need to dodge in bigger events.

    Pernicious Deed is NOT what they are expecting against True-Name Nemesis. I've been very happy with the versatility of that card!

    The Storm player pointed out to me that Pulse of Murasa is live in that matchup - if they cast Infernal Tutor as their last card and hold priority to crack Lion's Eye Diamond, you can respond after the crack to put a land back into their hand

  18. #38

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Regarding phyrexian revoker: it is there as a hate bear against combo, with mild applications against moon stompy. None of these decks play much removal for it, and when they do, itís largely removal that can also hit spyglass. The draw for me is that revoker can name LED and lotus petal and presents a clock(this being particularly relevant).

    Ob nixilis is admittedly the flex spot of the deck, I wanted my 75th card to be a bomb in control mirrors, and as such, it had to check several boxes:
    1)non-blue (bonus points for non-red)
    2)non-creature
    3)4+ cmc

    I came to the conclusion from these that I should play either a second Chandra or an ob nixilis. I ended up leaning towards ob nixilis because he doesnít get blue blasted. Though really, any engine that satisfies the above criteria could be worth testing. Ob nixilis has been pretty good for me though, itís a bomb in the matchups you need a bomb.

  19. #39

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Well,

    with such constraints i can just propose a couple planesawalker, i guess:

    Nissa, Steward of Elements
    It's blue but it has a flexible curve (you can play it with DRS at turn 2)
    All 3 abilities are relevant.

    or

    Vraska the Unseen
    A long time ago she has been played in BUG variants.
    The destroy ability is a catch all answer. Ultimate should do its job.

    Not a fan of both, just some idea thrown on the table.

  20. #40

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Hey all, I have been looking at this deck for a bit now, and have decided to take the plunge and build it. I was wondering if there are any updates in regards to matches, or any words of wisdom anyone has to offer.

    Thanks!

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