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Thread: Punishing Thieves

  1. #41

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Today my second take on this deck, i played it a couple of weeks ago in a 13-people tournament and lost in top4 a superclose g3 vs dredge

    Today 37 people tournament with this list:

    1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
    2 Dack Fayden
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    3 Baleful Strix
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Ponder
    2 Rise // Fall
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 fatal push
    1 Inquisition of kozilek
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Diabolic Edict
    4 Force of Will
    1 Kolaghan's Command
    1 Lightning Bolt
    3 Punishing Fire
    1 Badlands
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    2 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Swamp
    1 Tropical Island
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island

    Sideboard

    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Pyroblast
    1 red elem blast
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Notion Thief
    1 Pernicious Deed
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Pulse of Murasa
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Surgical Extraction (the last tournament i've lost vs dredge and i added one of this in place of a jace)
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Thoughtseize
    1 Abrupt Decay

    T1 - Maverick 1-1
    T2 - Elves 2-1
    T3 - Maverick 0-2 (he sees 4 wastelands g1 and 3 wasteland g2 + top deck of sword fire and ice when i stabilized with dack + strix in play
    T4 - SmallPox 2-1
    T5 - BR control (moon, confidant, discards, rabblemaster, lilianas) 2-0
    T6 Team America - we go to turns on 1-1 with me in play 1 or 2 planeswalker and double punishing fire in gy. He's nice enough to concede and let me get in the top8

    Top8 vs another Team America
    I've lost the close third game after a superlucky brainstorm of him (he sees flusterstorm + daze for my edict and liliana) and my first turns in screw.

    The deck is fun, full stop.
    You have a bunch of unexpected 1x that draw a lot of attention from the audience but at the same time the *do* something.
    I fronted a variety of decks and i had always a chance to win, it's freaking hard to play, you can lose games for a small wrong decision and i think i did negligible mistakes almost in every game (more than my average i mean).
    In 3 matches we went to turn and to avoid draws i played at a very fast peace, even so you risk to draw too much, our victory conditions are not the fastest in the planet.

    Sideboarding is quite difficult also.

    I liked my main, i never had the opportunity to bring in Pulse of Murasa, i know the trick vs nausea and its obvious implications vs burn but it seems to narrow for me. This card could do a nice job even vs midrange but you do not have place for an extra card when you are sideboarding 5-8 cards.
    Notion Thief is fringy too but i'll give him another chance.
    I think i want to add a good finisher when i'm short in time in g3 and maybe vs BUG, i was thinking to Tasigur or Gurmag Angler.

    That's all folks, thanks to the creator for the mix of strength and fun he forged in this deck :)

  2. #42

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Another Legacy Challenge, another top 8, I'm loving this current list that's even lighter on win conditions than before. I was very happy cutting down on the green in many matchups. For those interested, here is the VoD, it's quite long though.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/250665991

  3. #43

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Took this list to MKM Hamburg Trial. 18 players, 5 rounds with Top8

    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    2 Dack Fayden
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Baleful Strix
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Kess, Dissident Mage
    3 Ponder
    2 Rise // Fall
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Fatal Push
    1 Thoughtseize
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Diabolic Edict
    4 Force of Will
    1 Kolaghan's Command
    1 Lightning Bolt
    3 Punishing Fire

    1 Badlands
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    2 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Swamp
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island

    Sideboard:
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Marsh Casualties
    1 Notion Thief
    1 Sylvan Library
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Thoughtseize
    1 Hydroblast

    Matches:
    2-1 vs BUG Control
    2-1 vs RB Reanimator
    1-2 vs Eldrazi
    2-1 vs Elves
    ID in R5

    Top8:
    2-1 vs ANT
    2-1 vs Soldier Stompy
    Prize split in the final match.

    I went with idea that deck is super fun to play but didn't really expect to pull up any results. I also had to streamline sideboard a little bit, 15 one-of's is way too much for me to handle.
    I wanted to try Kess, in the end I drew her once vs BUG when game was over anyway and vs ANT where flying was relevant to deal final damage through bunch of goblins. No idea if she's better than Chandra or 2nd Leovold.

    Thanks Stryfo, deck was blast to play. Time to get this on MTGO. :D

  4. #44

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Hey guys, what are your general tips and suggestions for this deck to fight Lands? I run 2 Surgicals in the board which comes in ofc, but like I said, I'm looking for general tips and tricks. I'm also aware that the MU is pretty bad, and as such I don't expect it to become favourable in any way. So far I've managed to win only a single game against them by chumping Marit Lage while managing to ult Dack and finally stealing her with a Push. Is that really our best bet in the MU?

    I've considered going back to running a singleton Angler in the main, getting early beats in with a 5/5 did some work.

  5. #45

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    I have had a very favorable matchup against lands personally. You need to be aware of the proper modes to use with DRS, sometimes you should exile lands rather than loams, but it's all about reading the texture of the game. Having so many mainboard ways to kill Marit Lage (rise//fall, jace, edict, Dack Ult) really helps with the matchup. The most important thing is to identify what axis they are trying to fight you on and craft a plan to beat it. If they have pfire grove going you need to hold most of your threats so that they can't wipe you in one turn cycle. If they are going for mana denial, hold your fetches in play, try to land DRS. if they are going for a fast lage, you need to be prepared with strix and a removal spell.

    Dack stealing Mox diamond is HUGE, it cuts off the mana denial plan really well and in fact, sometimes let's you destroy the mana of the lands player.

    In fact, all of your planeswalkers are incredibly strong.

    When you see your opener, you need to decide which of their plans you can beat, and which you can't. If you can't beat mana denial (game 1) for example, gamble is probably their scariest spell, because it finds their loam. If you can't beat Marit Lage, it's usually crop rotation. Pfire grove is probably the hardest of their plans to beat in game one, but if you have a force of will and an early deathrite, the way to do it is to just eat their pfires. You can recoup card advantage later with your walkers and close the game out this way.

    I know this isn't exhaustive, but it's difficult to do anything exhaustive in a game as complex as magic. In any case, I hope this helps you pick up a few more wins, good luck!

  6. #46

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfo View Post
    I have had a very favorable matchup against lands personally. You need to be aware of the proper modes to use with DRS, sometimes you should exile lands rather than loams, but it's all about reading the texture of the game. Having so many mainboard ways to kill Marit Lage (rise//fall, jace, edict, Dack Ult) really helps with the matchup. The most important thing is to identify what axis they are trying to fight you on and craft a plan to beat it. If they have pfire grove going you need to hold most of your threats so that they can't wipe you in one turn cycle. If they are going for mana denial, hold your fetches in play, try to land DRS. if they are going for a fast lage, you need to be prepared with strix and a removal spell.

    Dack stealing Mox diamond is HUGE, it cuts off the mana denial plan really well and in fact, sometimes let's you destroy the mana of the lands player.

    In fact, all of your planeswalkers are incredibly strong.

    When you see your opener, you need to decide which of their plans you can beat, and which you can't. If you can't beat mana denial (game 1) for example, gamble is probably their scariest spell, because it finds their loam. If you can't beat Marit Lage, it's usually crop rotation. Pfire grove is probably the hardest of their plans to beat in game one, but if you have a force of will and an early deathrite, the way to do it is to just eat their pfires. You can recoup card advantage later with your walkers and close the game out this way.

    I know this isn't exhaustive, but it's difficult to do anything exhaustive in a game as complex as magic. In any case, I hope this helps you pick up a few more wins, good luck!

    The new main deck looks so smooth!
    It makes me wanna try it over Czech pile but what scare me off is the headhache the Singleton sideboard will make me
    Do you use rise/fall in discard mode often? Will surely catch up that video of yours sooner or later

  7. #47

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    I use Rise//Fall very frequently as a discard spell, but the key is, except against combo, I almost never use it that way on turn 2. You can't mana screw people with it, but that's not an issue against most decks.

    Edit: The sideboard is very customisable, this is just the configuration that I like.

  8. #48

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    is the lifeloss too much to not run thoughtseize instead of IoS in the main?

  9. #49

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    I've been jamming your list in locals for the last few weeks and I've had more success with it than Grixis Delver which says a lot. Not sure if it's because it fits my style more or what, but this deck is phenomenal and my current favorite

    Something irks me about running only 3 Ponder but that's just my OCD.

  10. #50

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfo View Post
    I use Rise//Fall very frequently as a discard spell, but the key is, except against combo, I almost never use it that way on turn 2. You can't mana screw people with it, but that's not an issue against most decks.

    Edit: The sideboard is very customisable, this is just the configuration that I like.
    Question about Pernicious
    I've always loved her in deck that have big mana, because for small token/chalice EE works better (1 less mana to destroy chalice/ETW tokens, ETA tokens, and so on), but I recognize that Pernicious Deed can be a powerful sweeper without touching PWs:
    Is that the application you use it for? dealing with aggro based deck too? have you tryed EE in its place? Just curiosity :P

  11. #51

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    @NegatorITA:

    I have not tried EE, though I like how deed cleans up everything, regardless of cmc. It is usually a multiple turn mana investment, but it clears ALL of the (non walker) problems, not just the problems at a particular cmc. I like it against a lot of decks. EE is not as good I think, but the fact that it doesn't take green mana is a big deal.

  12. #52

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Hey Stryfo I really enjoy your deck! Would you care to make an updated sideboard guide for the most popular decks? All the one-ofs makes me scratch my head..

    Grixis Delver
    4c Control/sultai control
    Elves
    ANT
    Miracles
    Turbo Depths
    Reanimator
    Sneak & Show
    Red Stompy
    Sultai Delver
    Lands
    Eldrazi Stompy
    Big Eldrazi
    Burn

  13. #53

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    I have updated my current list and a current sideboard outline for some of the most common matchups on the first page. Check it out and let me know if you have any further questions.

  14. #54

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfo View Post
    I have updated my current list and a current sideboard outline for some of the most common matchups on the first page. Check it out and let me know if you have any further questions.
    Thanks a bunch!

    Well since you're asking I might as well ask you for tips from the final decks in my local meta!

    *BUG food chain
    *MUD (non tanglewire version)
    *pox
    *goblins
    *energy field U/W

    And since I have no shame I might as well ask you whether you would tweak your 75 knowing my exact meta... On Sunday I expect to be facing the following decks:

    *BUG food chain
    *BUG delver
    *Burn
    Dragon Stompy
    Goblins
    4c Control
    *Turbo Depths
    *Lands
    MUD
    UW energy field
    ANT
    Big Eldrazi
    Eldrazi Stompy
    *Infect
    Grixis Delver
    Elves
    D&T

    *=likely to make top four so might face more than once during a tournament. Everything else is usually 1x except sometimes grixis delver. So basically all the normal metagame decks except there's less grixis delver and zero graveyard strategies (because they've been hated out too many times), but more chalice decks than usual, and Burn+Marit Lage are the decks to beat. I've been thinking about maybe switching thoughseize for kozilek's in the main like you did last week (less vulnerable to the aggro decks) and possibly switch the spellbomb for a third edict to deal with Marit and Ulamog.


    I'll be sure to write up a report if you would help me out of course!

  15. #55

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    BUG food chain - This matchup is pretty good on the balance, but sideboarding can definitely be challenging, I'd probably go with something like:

    In: 2x Pyroblast, Decay, Notion Thief, Library

    Out: 2x Force of Will, 1x Liliana, 1x Fatal Push, 1x Edict


    *MUD (non tanglewire version) - MUD tends to be one of the best matchups for this deck, 3 Dacks:

    In: Decay, Deed, Edict

    Out: Thoughtseize, Liliana, Baleful Strix

    *pox- I don't have a ton of experience playing against pox with this deck, but my estimation is:

    In: Library, Spell Pierce, Decay
    Out: Thoughtseize, Edict, Deluge


    *goblins - this matchup is also pretty good, pfire is a house as I'm sure you know:

    In: Deed, Marsh Casualties, Decay, Library, Hydroblast, Pulse of Murasa

    Out: 4x Force of Will, Thoughtseize, 1x Rise//Fall

    *energy field U/W - Not a lot of experience here either:

    In: Decay, Deed, Library, Spell Pierce, 2x Pyroblast, Notion Thief

    Out: Kommand, Fatal Push, Edict, Bolt, Deluge, 1x Rise//Fall, 1x Baleful Strix

    In the meta you describe I would make the IoK <-> Thoughtseize switch, and I would probably swap the marsh casualties in the board for a 3rd edict. Spellbomb is quite good against Lands and ANT, and is serviceable against 4c control.

    Looking at the meta more closely it's probably also reasonable to make the discard spells into collective brutality rather than IoK and Thoughtseize, you'll get points against burn, and if you really expect to play it a few times, I'd want to be prepared. If burn is not a big deal I don't think you need to go to that length though.

    I hope this was helpful, good luck in your event!

  16. #56

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Thanks a bunch! That was very helpful

    Match 1: Food Chain 1-1

    G1: as always super grindy, it took 30 minutes as we both answered all the threats as they hit the board. I managed to kill all his birds but in the end he resolved both a food chain and a relic of progenitus for the win.

    G2: I managed to stick jace on turn 3 as he missed a land drop for his abrupt decay, followed by a dack which prompted a scoop. He has big problems with jace.

    G3: similar to G1, super grindy and the clock ran out

    Match 2: MUD: 0-2

    G1: I keep a land with two brainstorms and a bolt plus lands. He's on the play going T1 chalice T2 lodestone golem T3 chalice. I had no chance.

    G2: I kept three duals and tons of gas but got locked out with 2x wasteland. A Wurmcoil Engine was followed by Blightsteel Colossus so my edict didn't help much.

    These games were perhaps a litt unlucky but this doesn't really feel like such a good matchup despite Dack's utility. There's too many things I need to answer outside the threats with trinispheres, chalices and karn, scion of urza, and he is very fast. I haven't played it extensively but I'm at best 40-60 in games.

    Match 3: Energy Field 2-0

    G1 he gets some mana denial going with stifle and back to basics, but I get Dack out to filter to find more answers than he has threats and he goes down to strix beatdown with a stifled snapcaster coming in to finish the job.

    G2 he stumbles on mana for a turn and again the threats vs answers balance doesn't line up in his favor

    Opponent makes a funny remark saying that I have the perfect Bling deck (I have a lot of masterpieces etc in it) since I get to see all the pretty cards with the ridiculous amount of card draw.

    Match 4: Lands 2-0

    G1 he slows me down a little bit with wasteland and double rishadan port but not too bad as a DRS hits the board. I make a big mistake by tapping all my black mana to play Liliana the turn he lets me go to main phase without tapping my lands, despite having a diabolict edict in hand. Of course he goes crop rotation, activate thespian's stage and swings in for the win. D'oh.

    G2 I get a Jace and a strix on the board and I start ticking up jace. After finding my spellbomb he has no way to get through my shields so I win.

    G3 he goes taiga, mox Diamond, discard dark depths cast life from the loam. I surgical his loam, finding one more in hand and steal his mox with dack for a complete blowout. Dack found Chandra and the game ended soon after.

    We're four players at 2-1-1 and I don't make the cut to top four.

    Turbo Depths wins the finals (yet again) over MUD.

    The top four in the League is now Dark Depths - Lands - MUD - Food Chain so I think I want at least one pithing needle in the 75 as it good against all the four. I think I'll drop the Marsh casualties as D&T already seems favorable and Elves isn't all that common.
    Last edited by Atreju; 05-08-2018 at 09:58 AM.

  17. #57

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    @atreju:

    I am curious as to how pithing needle is good against food chain and MUD, but I agree it is decent against lands and depths, and if those are giving you trouble, it's worth trying.

    I'd encourage you to test a bit more against MUD, I haven't played against it a ton (probably less than 10 matches) but I don't recall ever losing a match to it, and I have felt in control every time I play against it.

    Marsh casualties is definitely a card to cut if you don't expect much delver, but I just like having a bunch of answers to TNN.

  18. #58

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Since I discover this deck I locked up in room and test with other players and have never looked again to have my own creation and later compare with all of U.
    thats why this is my first post here. after many many tests:
    4 shaman
    3 strix
    3 snapcaster
    2 Leovold
    -12
    2 dack
    -14
    4 brainstorm
    4 preordain
    4 fow
    1 counterspell
    1 pyroblast
    2 kolaghan command
    1 bolt
    1 abrupt
    3 PFire
    1 edict
    36
    2 seize
    2 rise fall
    40
    4 tarn
    4 delta
    3 sea
    3 burnwillow
    2 volcanic
    1 tropical
    2 island
    1 swamp
    1 badland
    61 lol xD
    2 flusterstorm
    1 blue elemental blast
    2 REb
    1 needle
    1 golgari charm
    1 new damping sphere
    1 library
    3 extraction
    1 dread of Night ♥️
    1 edict
    1 life from the loam

    Any thoughts after my life project xD before GP Birmingham.

  19. #59

    Re: Punishing Thieves

    cut the counterspell, make it SB if you really want it

  20. #60
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    Re: Punishing Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfo View Post
    I have updated my current list and a current sideboard outline for some of the most common matchups on the first page. Check it out and let me know if you have any further questions.
    Thanks for your hard work! I have a couple of questions:
    • why no more Leovold in the 75, but still a copy of Notion Thief? I agree that with Dack in play the latter is stronger, but overall the power of Leovold is superior
    • why preordain instead of ponder?
    • have you considered null rod instead of revoker as a side card against storm (shuts LED and Petal) which helps in the Mud and Big Eldrazi MU? You lose some punch against sneak attack decks but gain something to play against stoneforge adn D&T


    Thank you
    Ignorance is strength

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