Punishing Thieves

[Atreju]

@Atreju I just added miracles in our sideplan based on Stryfo's stream.

@stryfo I really enjoy watching your unique playstyle into this deck, so this project is about to capture these choices. Many times i caught myself not to choose the same sideboard plan as you. The deck has so many 1offs which is difficult to understand why this card and why not this card. I think this datasheet gives us a clean view and a common path to follow.
-As far as the reveler i played a few matches, i have some thoughts. reveler dodge pierce and when its ready to resolve, it dodges daze too, it dodges deacy bolt and fatal push, its not very easy to cast it allthough and sometimes i had goodcards in my hand that i didnt want to cast it. In one game it happened to resolve rise on the reveler and a snapcaster from the grave, the game was out of control for my opponent that moment. But i think reveler it's not better than chandra because of rest in peace and leyline of the void which reveler is unable to be casted under these cards.

I just played omnitell and keeping Kcommand in is probably a mistake.

[ventouza6969]

probably yea its a bad card but depens on the timing u just drew it, if u draw kcommand at the midgame its a sweet instant speed discard on his opp draw. Also show n tell players sometimes play defence grid i have also seen grim lavamancer as a tech. Anyway we dont have better card in our sideboard!

[walked]

Where does dack go without DRS?

[nimkee]

Where does dack go without DRS?

During one of the leagues Stryfo had his folder open with about a half dozen Thieves variations. One of them just so happened to be labeled "Post DRS Ban Thieves" if I recall. I forgot what he actually put in it though.

Stryfo...so where do we go?

[Stryfo]

This is where I'll likely be starting from:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1175690#paper


I want to stress that it's impossible to build a control deck into an unknown meta, and I fully expect to get smashed a few times before I get it right. However, I'll be tuning this to try to get it right until it works or is abundantly clear that the deck needed DRS.

Happy brewing.

[quadich]

So i obviously have not tested it,but how about accumulated knowledge. Great with dack fayden and also a great card by itself.
Also how do we deal with loam + wasteland now?:(

[Gregery]

I heard in Stryfo's stream that new Bolas is going to go over Keranos? Is Bolas going to be that good? Is it because of his planeswalker form is good or just the 4/4 for 4 plus discard?

[Stryfo]

It’s because you can’t stop me from at least trying Bolas, he’s way too sweet.

[Gregery]

It’s because you can’t stop me from at least trying Bolas, he’s way too sweet.

Respect.

[Atreju]

I see RUG delver is causing some problems. Maybe it's time for Meekstone? Since there aren't many abrupt decays any more.

Please don't drop black, I need some rise//fall in my stream watching life :-P

[Stryfo]

It’s hard to tell if RUG delver is a problem, some games feel very close, others feel very one-sided one way or another. I just haven’t played enough matches to tell what the average is. In all honesty, I prefer the black builds too, they are more fun for me to play, but I do want to try to figure out what’s the best version moving forward, so I’m going to try a lot of stuff.

[CovenantElite30]

It’s hard to tell if RUG delver is a problem, some games feel very close, others feel very one-sided one way or another. I just haven’t played enough matches to tell what the average is. In all honesty, I prefer the black builds too, they are more fun for me to play, but I do want to try to figure out what’s the best version moving forward, so I’m going to try a lot of stuff.

Hey man, fell asleep watching your stream last night. Did you end up casting Nicol Bolas? How was he when you casted him? Did you see this card staying in your deck?

[Stryfo]

I cast Bolas a few times, flipped it once, it’s possible that it should stay, but it’s unclear. A 4/4 flier is really nice.

[Atreju]

I cast Bolas a few times, flipped it once, it’s possible that it should stay, but it’s unclear. A 4/4 flier is really nice.

We do need another finisher but I don't think Bolas is the best choice because it's not so easy to get value with the discard. I think I want Kess, but I prefer both Bedlam Reveler and Keranos over Bolas.

[Stryfo]

For those still interested in a Grixis build, I think I've got something:


3 Dack Fayden
3 Punishing Fire
4 Brainstorm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
4 Baleful Strix
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
2 Counterbalance
1 To the Slaughter
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
1 Tropical Island
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Ponder

2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Hydroblast
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Spell Pierce
1 Notion Thief
1 Firespout
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Counterbalance
1 Diabolic Edict


The Counterbalances are a compact, low cmc way of generating long term advantage in a variety of matchups, allowing for something akin to the life gain of DRS in the late game against lightning bolt decks and functioning as a hatebear-like spell against the combo decks. The addition allows for cutting discard slightly and increasing removal in the main. I wanted another sweeper and I've been very impressed with firespout so far (kills goose while leaving strix around) I think the sideboard could certainly use a little work, as you can tell by the ob nixilis being there, and it's possible that one more finisher should find it's way to the main, but honestly, when we get to the late game against most decks, pfire closes it or Dack ult does, so maybe another finisher is not required.

This is where I'm at for now and I'm pretty happy with how it plays so far, though I do need to get used to playing with counterbalance, since it adds another dimension to an already complex deck.

Let me know what you all think, have any of you been fiddling with the deck or is it just me after DRS got the axe?



P.S. RiP Rise//Fall =(

[walked]

For those still interested in a Grixis build, I think I've got something:


3 Dack Fayden
3 Punishing Fire
4 Brainstorm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
4 Baleful Strix
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
2 Counterbalance
1 To the Slaughter
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
1 Tropical Island
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Ponder

2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Hydroblast
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Spell Pierce
1 Notion Thief
1 Firespout
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Counterbalance
1 Diabolic Edict


The Counterbalances are a compact, low cmc way of generating long term advantage in a variety of matchups, allowing for something akin to the life gain of DRS in the late game against lightning bolt decks and functioning as a hatebear-like spell against the combo decks. The addition allows for cutting discard slightly and increasing removal in the main. I wanted another sweeper and I've been very impressed with firespout so far (kills goose while leaving strix around) I think the sideboard could certainly use a little work, as you can tell by the ob nixilis being there, and it's possible that one more finisher should find it's way to the main, but honestly, when we get to the late game against most decks, pfire closes it or Dack ult does, so maybe another finisher is not required.

This is where I'm at for now and I'm pretty happy with how it plays so far, though I do need to get used to playing with counterbalance, since it adds another dimension to an already complex deck.

Let me know what you all think, have any of you been fiddling with the deck or is it just me after DRS got the axe?



P.S. RiP Rise//Fall =(

I'm skeptical of counterbalance but dont hate it. I'll sleeve this up and run it at my weekly tomorrow if I have time to get it together :)

[NedB37]

No new Nicol Bolas?? Or did you test and find it didn't quite work?

[Atreju]

I don't like firespout because it's not very good at killing Goyfs.

How about switching one of the decays for a second deed? It deals with back to basics and counterbalance as well as goyfs and geese. If Ob Nixilis is there mainly to draw cards, I suggest trying Painful Truths instead.

[Stryfo]

@ Atreju: Most of the time, goyf is not a problem with this build, there are many ways of killing goyf. I actually am not playing deed in this build at all, largely due to the popularity of stifle in the current meta. Ob Nixilis is, I think, a more powerful option than painful truths, it is a game winning bomb, where painful truths is not, that said, it's still in the placeholder stage right now.

@NedB37: The card is very fun to play with, but it just wasn't performing quite well enough for me, at least not in this build. There is likely another build of the deck where that card is better.

[NedB37]

@NedB37: The card is very fun to play with, but it just wasn't performing quite well enough for me, at least not in this build. There is likely another build of the deck where that card is better.

Agree. I'd like to try it, see if i can make it work.

Is the Trop in your main for Firespout? I assumed it was another source for Grudges but, you don't seem to be running any. If it wasn't for Firespout, would this be a basic Mountain?