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Thread: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

  1. #21
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    I'm calling now that Storm the Vault/Vault of Catlacan is Rival's version of Growing Rites of Itlimoc/Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun, in that the initial hype and pre-order price is huge while the reality is that the card is only broken in EDH.

  2. #22
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I'm calling now that Storm the Vault/Vault of Catlacan is Rival's version of Growing Rites of Itlimoc/Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun, in that the initial hype and pre-order price is huge while the reality is that the card is only broken in EDH.
    Artifacts are way easier to set up than creatures, though. Same reason why Academy is way more broken than Cradle.

    4 mana, two colors and having to wait a turn before being able to abuse it effectively is rather hard, though.

  3. #23

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    I think you all are underestimating how hard it will be to flip that card. Revel in Riches isn't any kind of a deck because there's not any good ways of generating lots of treasure tokens that don't involve you already winning the game.

    Maybe there'll be enough generators in this new set.

  4. #24

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    I think you all are underestimating how hard it will be to flip that card. Revel in Riches isn't any kind of a deck because there's not any good ways of generating lots of treasure tokens that don't involve you already winning the game.
    In legacy, it's easier to flip than to cast.

    (Part of the reason that nobody plays revel is that Marionette Master is just plain better.)

  5. #25

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    In legacy, it's easier to flip than to cast.

    (Part of the reason that nobody plays revel is that Marionette Master is just plain better.)
    Oh whoops. My bad. I thought it said five Treasure Tokens, not five artifacts.

  6. #26

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Oh whoops. My bad. I thought it said five Treasure Tokens, not five artifacts.
    Nope, just five artifacts, and we have so many good ones: Lotus Petal, LED, Candelabra of Tawnos, Mox Opal, Grim Monolith, Voltaic Key, and the 6 artifact lands. It may not actually be good enough, but it's usually worth at least trying to abuse a new Tolarian Academy.

  7. #27

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Oh whoops. My bad. I thought it said five Treasure Tokens, not five artifacts.
    Sorry - I'm a newbie here. But aren't treasure tokens also artifacts themselves?

  8. #28

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmast7 View Post
    Sorry - I'm a newbie here. But aren't treasure tokens also artifacts themselves?
    They are, but attacking to get them isn't likely to be a good way to flip the enchantment because it's slow and unreliable. (It might be be interesting if the trigger were once per creature, rather than once per attack.)

  9. #29
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    I think you all are underestimating how hard it will be to flip that card. Revel in Riches isn't any kind of a deck because there's not any good ways of generating lots of treasure tokens that don't involve you already winning the game.
    More importantly, Revel in Riches requires your opponents to be on heavy creature-centric decks, b/c those creatures dying as about the only way you're ever getting treasure (other than playing a slew of overcosted, underpowered treasure generating effects)...I mean sure, you could play a Forbidden Orchard/Illness in the Ranks-type combo, but that seems a little unreasonable. Flip-Academy is a proactive card that works regardless of what strategy an opponent is on.

    The real issue with this card is that it does nothing and cannot be hidden in your deck's pile of lands like an actual Academy can be - so already we know the deck needs a lot of mana already, artifacts in the deck are going to need draw power, and when possible the ability to attack with said artifacts (i.e. Baleful Strix). Idea's like @civet five's are a trap that lead to tier 3-4 decks where sure everything kinda works together, but ultimately it's a collection of effects you can't assemble (no card draw, and no real plan for all the mana if you got it).

    The next question then, since we know the shell already (Tezz), is why does Tezz want to make like 6 mana off one land plus however much mana from sacrificing the Petals they potentially made? There is a very good chance that everything Tezz is doing (Ensaring Bridge, Chalice, Thopter/Sword, UB Tezz/JTMS/Dack) is already better. Add in all that blue mana and you're looking at Walking Ballista (which @rufus pointed out) as the only creature that realistically works with Bridge [even this is probably worse than going fractal with Thopter/Sword, but Ballista is only one card and doesn't use the yard, so there is that going for it]. Outside of that I guess you could be a complete jackass and Mishra's Helix people to oblivion every upkeep, because you can. Anything you could possibly wish for probably ends up being a worse UB Tezz ult. Infinite turn generation would be trivial with Time Sieve and Thopter/Sword, but again too janky to ever assemble - still pretty funny to think about though since the thopter tokens themselves just ramp the whole stupid contraption.

    For those thinking about Affinity, I think you're better off looking at cards with Improvise mechanic and the high quality threats/interaction/card draw whose power level is on par with Delve without having to open yourself up to yard hate (should they resolve) - these are also very much UB cards, so again we're in the Strix shell which is where Flip-Academy probably needs to be as far as legacy is concerned.

  10. #30
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Revel in Riches is a combo kill with the old Hunted series and a way to nuke tokens.

    What about:
    T2 Powder Keg
    T3 Hunted whatever
    T4 Hunted whatever
    T5 win Eot, popping powder keg

    That's legacy power levels right there.
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  11. #31
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan



    Immortal Sun - 6
    Legendary Artifact - M
    Players can't activate Loyalty abilities of Planeswalkers.
    At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card.
    Spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
    Creatures you control get +1/+1.

    Is this playable in MUD / 12-post-decks? Shuts off Jace and Liliana (the first can answer big creatures and drown in Card Advantage / Fate Seal, the second can kill big creatures and discard), gives you an extra card every round while making every card in your deck a little cheaper (I think Ugin costing 7 instead of 8 can be very relevant). Giving your creatures +1/+1 might be the least important ability, but there are situations in which it could have an impact.

  12. #32
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Last I checked, Ugin was a planeswalker.

  13. #33

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu View Post


    Immortal Sun - 6
    Legendary Artifact - M
    Players can't activate Loyalty abilities of Planeswalkers.
    At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card.
    Spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
    Creatures you control get +1/+1.

    Is this playable in MUD / 12-post-decks? Shuts off Jace and Liliana (the first can answer big creatures and drown in Card Advantage / Fate Seal, the second can kill big creatures and discard), gives you an extra card every round while making every card in your deck a little cheaper (I think Ugin costing 7 instead of 8 can be very relevant). Giving your creatures +1/+1 might be the least important ability, but there are situations in which it could have an impact.
    I'm honestly not sure if this is as good as, or better than Caged Sun in more creature-oriented decks. That is an insane set of abilities.

  14. #34

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu View Post
    ...
    Is this playable in MUD / 12-post-decks? Shuts off Jace and Liliana (the first can answer big creatures and drown in Card Advantage / Fate Seal, the second can kill big creatures and discard), ....
    Probably not. Those decks want more reliable x-for-1 on payoffs.

  15. #35

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu View Post
    Immortal Sun - 6
    Legendary Artifact - M
    Players can't activate Loyalty abilities of Planeswalkers.
    At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card.
    Spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
    Creatures you control get +1/+1.
    Jam it in a Stax deck and watch your Metalworker clock double!

  16. #36
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by filln View Post
    Jam it in a Stax deck and watch your Metalworker clock double!
    I love everything about this card besides its mana cost.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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  17. #37
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    I'm confused, I thought I logged into The Source, but all people can talk about is a bunch of cards that cost more than 3, most of them non-blue. That doesn't sound like Legacy-viable to me...

    New cards are cool, but I'm dubious that any of the spoiled cards will see much organized eternal play. WotC is now more about printing crap to make EDH Hoarders cream themselves, and occasionally they let something like Paradoxical Outcome slip through into the old, disorganized attic that is Legacy/Vintage.
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  18. #38
    bruizar
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Storm the Vault isn't good enough. UR plus 5 artifacts will go to Grixis Tezz or Affinity. Affinity isn't competitive enough, grixis tezz doesn't need more ramp. I'd rather drop a The Abyss than a Storm the Vault.

  19. #39

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Storm the Vault isn't good enough. UR plus 5 artifacts will go to Grixis Tezz or Affinity. Affinity isn't competitive enough, grixis tezz doesn't need more ramp. I'd rather drop a The Abyss than a Storm the Vault.
    Ditto. No one is going to pay 2UR for a sometimes Tolarian Academy. Card is fine in EDH, but is unplayable in eternal. When you can pay 2UR, and you've successfully got 5 artifacts out there, what are you still ramping up to?

  20. #40
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Why pay four mana for a Tolarian Maybe-cademy when you can S&T into Grozzledumb and skillfully draw 14 cards like your favorite SCG Pro?

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