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Thread: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

  1. #61
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Maybe I'm just an old fart, but what's with all of these new mechanics that dump stuff into some game zone that can't be interacted with by 99% of cards? Emblems, experience counters, Eminence, The Monarch, Energy, and now the City Blessing.

    One of the best things about Magic was how players could interact with just about everything, whether it was the board, hands, lands, or even phases of the turn. But in just the past few years, there's been a flood of stuff that just materializes and has an effect on the game, but doesn't actually exist within it.

    Seems like sloppy design.

  2. #62

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Maybe I'm just an old fart, but what's with all of these new mechanics that dump stuff into some game zone that can't be interacted with by 99% of cards? Emblems, experience counters, Eminence, The Monarch, Energy, and now the City Blessing.

    One of the best things about Magic was how players could interact with just about everything, whether it was the board, hands, lands, or even phases of the turn. But in just the past few years, there's been a flood of stuff that just materializes and has an effect on the game, but doesn't actually exist within it.

    Seems like sloppy design.
    Yeah, it's going downhill pretty steeply.

  3. #63
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    I was fine with Emblems, since they were part of a new card type that significantly affected MtG in major ways. They felt significantly epic to go along with the flavor of planeswalkers.

    But yeah, I agree with the notion that the recent introduction of all these newer emblem-esque mechanics is kind of dumb. It seems like they could have figured out an alternative way of incorporating these mechanics without having to introduce things that can't be interacted with.

  4. #64

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Wizards certainly is exploring out of the game mechanics. Even Contraptions are partially outside the game, even though the contraption itself can be interacted with.
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by wcm8 View Post
    I was fine with Emblems, since they were part of a new card type that significantly affected MtG in major ways. They felt significantly epic to go along with the flavor of planeswalkers.

    But yeah, I agree with the notion that the recent introduction of all these newer emblem-esque mechanics is kind of dumb. It seems like they could have figured out an alternative way of incorporating these mechanics without having to introduce things that can't be interacted with.
    Kinda weird how they didn't just do it like Threshold or Spell Mastery. Or even have it make an enchantment token or something.

    Taking bets on how long until the inevitable "destroy target thing in an opponent's command zone."

  6. #66
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Maybe I'm just an old fart, but what's with all of these new mechanics that dump stuff into some game zone that can't be interacted with by 99% of cards? Emblems, experience counters, Eminence, The Monarch, Energy, and now the City Blessing.
    I actually don't mind the existence of Monarch cards, but it feels like they misstepped a bit with them. It felt like they were trying to establish a sub-variant to regular Magic revolving around the mechanic, but the fact that Monarch stuff was printed in Conspiracy made those cards (and the Monarch business) legal in Legacy by accident.

    I don't have a particular problem with the other stuff you mentioned (though Energy feels dangerously close to retreading the Snow mana bungle) with the exception of emblems and Eminence. I always thought Indestructible and "can't be countered" were really stupid, but this is next-level weirdness. Why make something that has literally no answers except winning the game faster? Why introduce another card type when tokens have existed for ages? Why make a card that you don't actually have to play to win the game?

    (As an aside, the thing that bothers me most about energy counters—and a number of other things you mentioned—is less that they now exist and more that I'd be willing to bet it'll be a decade or more before they're revisited, if ever. It's rather like the new approach to tribal mechanics: print one block that focuses on Brushwaggs and Evil Eyes, then don't ever print another Brushwagg or Evil Eye.)
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  7. #67
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    What was there reason for doing away with tribal spells? I liked tribal spells - thought there could be a lot of potential there.

  8. #68

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Probably thought of as too complicated for newer players, considering cards like Ancient Zigguraut and Cavern of Souls that add mana for creature spells. Could be easily confused when your Caverns on Goblins doesn't make mana for your goblin spell Tarfire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I about died from laughter when I was watching my feature match and the commentators called Tinfins a difficult and challenging deck.

    I'm not saying it's the easiest deck to play, but the plan is so linear that I could probably get white girl wasted and still beat people with the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Imagine the trauma of a man who has seen Mom into Crusader enough to mainboard three Cabal Pits.

  9. #69
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    What was there reason for doing away with tribal spells? I liked tribal spells - thought there could be a lot of potential there.
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...t-1-2011-09-19

    "So what happened? Let's flashback to Innistrad*design. As I was doing a set with a tribal theme, I used the tribal card type wherever I could. Moan of the Unhallowed, for example,*was*a tribal sorcery – Zombie. The problem was that it's very hard to draw the line. If a set uses tribal then it wants to go on any card that has a definable flavor. As this set is top-down, that meant that a majority of the noncreature cards were using the tribal card type.

    The end result was that the cards were getting wordier but it seldom mattered. Most tribal (theme) cards cared about creatures and so weren't applicable to be tribal (type) cards. The one big exception was Zombies as there are multiple ways to get Zombie cards out of the graveyard, thus I believe the reason that I keep getting asked the question on this card.

    We playtested with tribal, and I kept getting the same note that it seldom seemed to matter. In the end, we made the call that it wasn't adding enough to the game play to offset its inclusion, which both made the cards wordier and caused more confusion."

  10. #70
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Watersaw View Post
    We playtested with tribal, and I kept getting the same note that it seldom seemed to matter. In the end, we made the call that it wasn't adding enough to the game play to offset its inclusion, which both made the cards wordier and caused more confusion."
    To a layperson like me I would think the solution would have been to make it matter, right? Like if you see that tribal cards only care about creatures, you make them care about non-creatures too. Maybe "whenever you cast [tribe]" instead of "if you control X [tribe] creatures".

  11. #71

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    What was there reason for doing away with tribal spells? I liked tribal spells - thought there could be a lot of potential there.
    Rules-wise tribal is unintuitive since it's a type, rather than a supertype. Basically, the way the subtype system works doesn't accommodate sharing subtypes between types, tribal is a crufty patch for that.

    Mostly, I think it's that they decided that they just didn't like the way it works mechanically. They had to redo a bunch of old cards like Goblin Lackey to have "[subtype] permanent card" and newer cards like Warren Instigator all get the anti-tribal template of "[subtype] creature card." It's disingenuous for MaRo to turn around and say "it doesn't matter" when they're clearly deliberately not making it matter.
    Last edited by rufus; 12-21-2017 at 01:13 PM.

  12. #72
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    It's disingenuous for MaRo to turn around and say "it doesn't matter" when they're clearly deliberately not making it matter.
    Exactly - even without new tribal cards - there could have been fun stuff to do with old tribal cards.

  13. #73

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    I heard the also canceld tribal lands! And thats a good thing.
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  14. #74

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Monarch is great for edh players. For competitive magic, they are all meh.

  15. #75
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by raudo View Post
    Monarch is great for edh players. For competitive magic, they are all meh.
    Monarch's very not meh in Pauper.
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    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  16. #76

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    I actually don't mind the existence of Monarch cards, but it feels like they misstepped a bit with them. It felt like they were trying to establish a sub-variant to regular Magic revolving around the mechanic, but the fact that Monarch stuff was printed in Conspiracy made those cards (and the Monarch business) legal in Legacy by accident.

    I don't have a particular problem with the other stuff you mentioned (though Energy feels dangerously close to retreading the Snow mana bungle) with the exception of emblems and Eminence. I always thought Indestructible and "can't be countered" were really stupid, but this is next-level weirdness. Why make something that has literally no answers except winning the game faster?
    You don't have to win the game to stop an emblem from happening. You just have to get rid of the planeswalker before it fires off its Emblem ability (or keep its loyalty counter from getting that high), and there's a lot of ways to accomplish that.

  17. #77
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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    You don't have to win the game to stop an emblem from happening. You just have to get rid of the planeswalker before it fires off its Emblem ability (or keep its loyalty counter from getting that high), and there's a lot of ways to accomplish that.
    Tell that to Gideon of the Trials/Gideon, Ally of Zendikar...
    Last edited by Jander78; 12-27-2017 at 02:24 PM. Reason: Fixed card typo
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  18. #78

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch View Post
    Gideon of the Trial's emblem is rendered irrelevant by removal of the planeswalker. Ally of Zendikar, admittedly, is basically unstoppable upon resolution if they use his ultimate right away, but is technically still "answerable" by creature removal.
    Last edited by Jander78; 12-27-2017 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Fixed card typo

  19. #79

    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    It's disingenuous for MaRo to turn around and say "it doesn't matter" when they're clearly deliberately not making it matter.
    I disagree. Outside of blocks with major tribal components, it really doesn't matter for either Standard or Limited that your card is "Tribal Instant - Wizard" or whatever, because cards that interact with creature types basically won't exist in those environments. The issue arises from player expectations: once you open that can of worms, every time you don't put the tribal label on a spell that clearly seems to be associated with some kind of homogeneous faction, players will bitch about it. I think they realized that tribal, while it was a great way to push you to play non-creatures in the clusterfuck of Lorwyn, also committed them to doing a bunch of other things for the rest of the game's life that they didn't necessarily want to do.

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    Re: [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    I disagree. Outside of blocks with major tribal components, it really doesn't matter for either Standard or Limited that your card is "Tribal Instant - Wizard" or whatever, because cards that interact with creature types basically won't exist in those environments. The issue arises from player expectations: once you open that can of worms, every time you don't put the tribal label on a spell that clearly seems to be associated with some kind of homogeneous faction, players will bitch about it. I think they realized that tribal, while it was a great way to push you to play non-creatures in the clusterfuck of Lorwyn, also committed them to doing a bunch of other things for the rest of the game's life that they didn't necessarily want to do.
    I agree. I've long wondered why a bunch of cards aren't Tribal, and though not retconning cards like Goblin Warrens or Elvish Fury makes sense from a design perspective, it certainly doesn't from a flavor perspective (for what it's worth).

    I'm curious as to why they made "Tribal" a card type instead of a supertype like "Legendary" or (ughh) "Snow."
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    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

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