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Thread: UW Enduring Ideal

  1. #61

    Re: UW Enduring Ideal

    x4 Birth of Meletis x0 Wall of Omens seems really weird to me
    If we assume that etb tutor 1 plains is exactly equal to drawing 1 card then

    Meletis Pros:
    - Gain 2 life
    - If they use creature removal on the wall you still get 1 devotion for a bit

    Wall of Omens Pros
    - You don't have to wait 1 turn to actually get the wall (can block immediately)
    - The nontoken permanent doesn't self-destruct after a few turns

    The lifegain vs getting the immediate wall seems about equivalent but getting to keep the non-token permanent forever seems like a big upside in favour of Wall of Omens. Not only does it mean you keep the devotion forever but also if you draw e.g. Teferi/AstralDrift/Yorion much later you still have a value permanent to bounce/flicker.

    And then importantly I also think that etb draw 1 is actually better than etb tutor a plains.

    Another idea for the yorion build is to play a SFM package
    - SFM->Skull is a fine wincon for the kind of midrange/control backup plan with thin ice / teferi etc etc in the lategame with Nykthos mana you can bounce and replay it
    - Yorion can blink skull to reset it or blink SFM to search another equip
    - Yorion out of the SB gives reliable access to a flying creature to equip
    - SFM can search for a white equip e.g. Maul of the Skyclave to add more devotion

  2. #62
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    Re: UW Enduring Ideal

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    x4 Birth of Meletis x0 Wall of Omens seems really weird to me
    If we assume that etb tutor 1 plains is exactly equal to drawing 1 card then

    Meletis Pros:
    - Gain 2 life
    - If they use creature removal on the wall you still get 1 devotion for a bit

    Wall of Omens Pros
    - You don't have to wait 1 turn to actually get the wall (can block immediately)
    - The nontoken permanent doesn't self-destruct after a few turns

    The lifegain vs getting the immediate wall seems about equivalent but getting to keep the non-token permanent forever seems like a big upside in favour of Wall of Omens. Not only does it mean you keep the devotion forever but also if you draw e.g. Teferi/AstralDrift/Yorion much later you still have a value permanent to bounce/flicker.

    And then importantly I also think that etb draw 1 is actually better than etb tutor a plains.
    My experience is that tutoring up a plains is actually better than drawing a blind card, as we want to hit our land drop every turn. Yes, if the game draws out, which it does do with some regularity, drawing an action card would be nice, but I have Omen of the Sea and Mazemind Tome for that. If I were playing Astral Drift, I'd likely want Wall of Omens, but as is, I've been happier with Birth. That said, I am considering trimming a copy, but I'm not sure for what. I suppose I could try a 3/1 split between Birth and Wall.

    Edit: Tried 3/1 split on Birth/Wall of Omens & really liking it. I love to have one Birth in the first 2-3 turns, but Wall is often better thereafter.
    Last edited by CaptainTwiddle; 12-25-2020 at 06:05 PM.

  3. #63

    Re: UW Enduring Ideal

    My idea for a yorion build

    31 Lands
    1 Hall of Heliod
    1 Mistveil Plains
    1 Arch of Orazca
    4 Temple
    4 Nykthos
    20 Plains

    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Skyclave Apparition

    4 Lotus Bloom
    4 Enduring Ideal

    4 On Thin Ice
    4 Runed Halo
    4 Astral Drift
    4 Leyline of Sanctity

    1 Batterskull
    1 Godsend / Maul of the Skyclaves
    1 Extra equipment (e.g. Sofai)

    1 Dovescape
    1 Overwhelming Splendor
    1 Unlife
    1 Form of the Dragon
    1 Sphere of Safety

    +5
    - Cast Out
    - Nevermore
    - Extra creatures (not sure what, but there is maybe a lack of things to put equipment on)
    - Extra wincon (Heliod etc)
    - Exclusion Ritual / ECD (maybe a bit slow)
    Also worth considering cutting 1-2 plains for e.g. Temple 5+, Boseiju, Castle Ardenvale

    I really think this has a lot of potential because the threat density of the usual build is too low.
    Too many games with like 10+ mana and a stable board and not drawing ideal for several turns and just dying to something random.
    Just having a big flyer in the command zone is already nice for that and Yorion has pretty decent interaction with other good cards (Wall, Apparition etc)

    SFM is a pretty divergent plan from Ideal but I think equipment are important for making Yorion more of a threat. Another option is to play Auramancer, which can be a draw engine with Astral Drift, then play more e.g. Cast Out to have targets for it, play ECD to bring back with it, etc, but this doesn't seem as powerful (also I like that SFM makes the deck more proactive). You could also just fill the deck with a bunch of extra enchantments that don't have any particular synergy with Yorion (Nevermore etc) but idk if this is effective/necessary.

  4. #64
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    Re: UW Enduring Ideal

    I noticed an Enduring Ideal deck top 8'ed an online Prelim recently, here's the list:

    Enduring Ideal by Rinko - 6th place MTGO Prelim 6-JAN-2021
    2 Skyclave Apparition
    3 Lotus Bloom
    3 Oust
    4 Silence
    2 Treasure Map
    1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
    1 Blood Moon
    2 Deafening Clarion
    3 Nine Lives
    2 Phyrexian Unlife
    3 Solemnity
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Dovescape
    4 Enduring Ideal
    2 Form of the Dragon
    1 Overwhelming Splendor
    2 Arid Mesa
    4 Marsh Flats
    1 Mistveil Plains
    2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    6 Plains
    4 Sacred Foundry
    3 Temple of Triumph

    Sideboard
    1 Word of Seizing
    3 Torpor Orb
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    4 Grand Abolisher
    3 Containment Priest
    2 Boil
    1 Wheel of Sun and Moon


    I think this list is interesting; there's a lot that I like about it and some things that I don't quite understand. I'm just starting to test it "as is" before making any changes to see if there are some factors I hadn't considered, but these are my initial thoughts:

    Pros - I like the inclusion of Solemnity with both Phyrexian Unlife and Nine Lives as combo pieces. Having those locks available at a reasonable mana cost makes the deck much less reliant on resolving Enduring Ideal. I also like that leaning into red a bit allows for Form of the Dragon to more realistically be hardcast. Deafening Clarion is a decent sweeper, but is going to be meta-dependent. Maindeck Blood Moon is a way to steal some games.

    Cons - I question some of the card choices. Oust seems OK, but I think I'd rather have On Thin Ice or Chained to the Rocks, as they add to your devotion, but both would probably require some adjusting to the mana base. I'm not a huge fan of Silence, as adding an 8th mana to to force through Ideal is often a pretty big ask, delaying your casting by a turn. Perhaps it belongs in the sideboard? Though this board already has Grand Abolisher. Treasure Map is kind of odd in this deck. My first thought was that it seemed inferior to Mazemind Tome, but then I realized how each card interacts with Solemnity; Tome becomes useless, whereas Map still lets you pay 1 to scry, though it won't be able to transform. So, I guess we're stuck with Map in that slot, which isn't terrible, as flipping the Map (assuming you don't have Solemnity in play) could get you a needed mana boost to resolve a big spell.

    Overall, I do think I like this direction for the deck. I think some numbers could probably be adjusted and there are certainly other cards that can be considered, but the Solemnity combos do seem like a solid angle.

  5. #65

    Re: UW Enduring Ideal

    The white rune from kaldheim could be a decent pick for the Yorion build too:

    Rune of Sustenance 1W
    Enchantment - Aura Rune
    Enchant Permanent
    When ~ enters the battlefield, draw a card.
    As long as enchanted permanent is a creature, it has lifelink.
    As long as enchanted permanent is an equipment, it has "Equipped creature has lifelink"

    - On turn 2 you can just put it on a land or whatever to draw a card and gain 1 devotion, then later in the game when you play Yorion you can flicker the rune to draw another card and give lifelink to Yorion
    - You can put it on your opponnent's Death Shadow / Scourge of the Skyclaves as a pseudo removal

    [In a fringe case if you are playing SFM you could put it onto your Sword of Fire and Ice or something but this doesn't seem too amazing or likely]

    31 Lands
    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Skyclave Apparition
    4 Bloom
    4 Ideal
    4 Ice
    4 Rune
    4 Halo
    4 Drift
    4 Leyline
    5x Ideal Toolbox (Dragon, Dove, Splendor, Unlife, Sphere)
    [72]
    So one option for the remaining 8 cards would be like Heliod + 4 SFM + 3 Equips or something like that but I would be willing to consider other alternatives (like a bigger Enduring Ideal toolbox or some Cast Out / Path to Exile)
    Another option: 4 Ranger Captain of Eos and then like 1 Giant Killer 1 Weathered Wayfarer 1 Thraben Inspector or something weird like this
    Other option: 4 Search for Glory 1 Elspeth Conquers Death 3 Something (in a pinch it can already search for On Thin Ice / Plains)

    Edit:
    Actually I think I do quite like the search for Glory idea. The fact that it searches for any legendary permanent means it can also search for Boseiju, Hall of Heliod, and Nykthos, which is quite a lot of utility. Add ECD and Heliod in addition to the aforementioned On Thin Ice and there are a good range of options for different situations.

    The other 4 slots are just 4 Path to Exile, which are the "best" removal spell for a modern white control deck. I avoided playing Path in the past because it puts you 'down a card' and doesn't add any devotion but with Yorion in the deck you have a reliable way to build into a fat Mulldrifter if you stall at 5 mana, so this should be less of an issue.

    [31 Lands]
    4 Temple of Triumph
    4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
    1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity
    1 Mistveil Plains
    1 Arch of Orazca
    19 Snow-Covered Plains -> Can possibly carefully trim these for a couple extra temples or a Castle Ardenvale or maybe a storage land / Emeria the Sky Ruin, Field of Ruin maybe who knows

    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Skyclave Apparition
    1 Heliod, God of the Sun

    4 Lotus Bloom
    4 Path to Exile
    2 Search for Glory (possibly you could trim stuff to fit 1-2 more copies of this but you don't want to have too many of these clunking your draws by spending 3 mana to not affect the board, especially when you have the 3 mana play of wish for Yorion as well)
    4 Enduring Ideal

    4 On Thin Ice
    4 Rune of Sustenance
    4 Runed Halo
    1 Phyrexian Unlife
    4 Astral Drift
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Sphere of Safety
    1 Elspeth Conquers Death
    1 Dovescape
    1 Form of the Dragon
    1 Overwhelming Splendor

    ------

    SB ideas:
    1 Yorion (companion)
    Grand Abolisher
    Mana Tithe / Lapse of Certainty
    Generous Gift
    Nevermore / Gideon's Intervention
    Worship
    RIP

    Options Tutorable by SFG:
    Reidane (for the Shield side which might be good vs Burn / Storm / Ballista Combo etc)
    Honden of Cleansing Fire / Lyra Dawnbringer / Something that gains life
    2WW Linvala vs any kind of coco/heliod etc nonsense (this one seems pretty good)
    Iona? If there is a good reason maybe
    Elspeth Sun's Chamption / Similar Big PW card
    The Immortal Sun?
    Mangara? Just to try stone rain a tronland or something. Bit slow (but it does combo with astral drift which is funny). I really want a better tutor target to beat tron but I'm not sure what, I don't think there is some kind of Legendary Mindcensor etc and turn 4 is kind of slow anyway (it might be possible to try to cheese wins by going turn 3 search for Karn liberated or Immortal Sun or some other big thing, play it on turn 4 with lotus accel. In which case if you were planning on casting it off lotus there is more freedom with the colours. Not sure if this is a good idea either, might just have to accept that the matchup is not salvageable). The other option would be to have like a massive transformational sb into taxes with Leonin Arbiter etc but idk if this is a good idea either.
    Urza's Ruinous Blast (don't think this makes sense in the deck but it's interesting to be aware of and there is Yorion to enable it)

    Edit:
    Still thinking about those last few slots (Heliod + ECD + 2 Search for Glory)
    I really like the idea of playing 1 Skybind, the floor on it is not *terrible* (okay 3WW for a sorcery Cloudshift is not great but at least you get 2 devotion) but the loop with Yorion seems probably pretty backbreaking in a bunch of matchups
    Heliod is so mana intensive that it's not very good at stabilizing a board by itself so that seems like an okay swap for Skybind, but e.g. then search for glory gets worse without heliod as an option, so maybe you can play a different card in those 2 slots that has more immediate impact and more synergy with Skybind like Cavalier of Dawn or Arcanists Owl etc
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 04-12-2021 at 07:51 AM.

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