Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Culling Tendrils (CulT)

  1. #21
    Member
    Silent Requiem's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    UK
    Posts

    440

    Re: Culling Tendrils (CulT)

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG
    I don't like the basic Island in your list. Half your fetchlands can't fetch it, and you should be able to put together the combo quickly or you'll lose. I think it should be a second Underground Sea instead.
    I agree, and I've changed it for a basic swamp. The logic was that after AdN making B is easy, whereas making U (for Brainstorm) is more difficult, so being able to Veteran Explorer into U could be useful. In practice it rarely comes up, and seeing Island in your opening 7 is no fun at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune
    I think a set of Chrome Mox could be called for here, Land, Mox, GSZ for Swarm on turn 1 sets up well for turn 2. I think you're wating space with the GSZ kill condition and alternate GSZ targets, your mulligans are going to be utter trash by playing with that garbage.
    I have 2 Chrome Mox at the moment, and I could see pushing that up to 3. I'm not sure I would want a full set, though. You never want to see more than one in your opening hand because AdN is your only source of card advantage.

    The GSZ kill condition is randomly good, and lets me keep hands that I might otherwise throw back. So far it has not been a problem with AdN, but it is worth keeping an eye on. I feel like the random Veteran Explorer is good when I draw it, but I never GSZ for it. Unlike Summoner's Pact, GSZ into Veteran Explorer is not +1 mana. As I said in the opening post, I feel like Veteran Explorer was forcing Vacrix into some difficult design space, and so far I've not felt like it was justified. A possible drop for that Chrome Mox.

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan
    I see some concepts being revisited that are also discussed in this thread, that's been in the back of my mind since the last posts in 2015. I'll link it here to help you get some more ideas. Ah, just noticed that this thread is actually discussed in the opening post, didn't read up carefully yet. Well, I guess the link is still useful.

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...lorer-Doomsday
    Actually, I'd never seen that thread before; thank you for linking it. While I can just about manage to fake deck design for a card as linear as AdN, I don't delude myself that I could build a reasonable Doomsday Deck, even building on the work that Vacrix has done.

    I found this comment of his particularly interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    I've also tried VANT lists that play Ad Nauseam as the business spells I've found just need too many non-land sources in a deck thats trying to abuse interacts within VE which means running basics, and then green fetches, which means Dryad Arbor, Culling the Weak and Cabal Therapy.

  2. #22
    Member

    Join Date

    Oct 2005
    Location

    Belchertown, MA
    Posts

    148

    Re: Culling Tendrils (CulT)

    This looks like fun. I've tinkered with GSZ in SI and Belcher builds. I like Thrun as an alternate threat, just because he can't be swords'd. I was using Chancellor of the Tangle as well. Not sure how good it was, I was just messing around.
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

  3. #23
    Member
    Silent Requiem's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    UK
    Posts

    440

    Re: Culling Tendrils (CulT)

    Quote Originally Posted by ntropy View Post
    This looks like fun. I've tinkered with GSZ in SI and Belcher builds. I like Thrun as an alternate threat, just because he can't be swords'd. I was using Chancellor of the Tangle as well. Not sure how good it was, I was just messing around.
    What I'm trying to do is build a consistent turn 2 combo deck that uses CtW as one of its main rituals. GSZ seemed like a good way to do that. The more I play it, though, the less certain I am of GSZ.

    On turn 1, GSZ > Arbor is a great acceleration play. However, that means that if you want to go off on turn 2 (and you probably can) then you are doing so completely unprotected. If you want Xantid, and have not drawn it naturally, then you have to wait until turn 2 to GSZ, unless you burn some other resources (Lotus Petal, the imprint for Chrome Mox, etc) to do so. That pretty much sucks.

    If, however, we were instead running the standard 7 discard package (which, via Cabal Therapy, still has very good synergy with the creatures that we are running) then we could play out our discard on turn 1 and still go off protected on turn 2. However, because we cannot GSZ for Arbor on turn 1 (or, presumably, cast the Xantid Swarms we took out) our creature density is probably not high enough to sustain both CtW and Diabolic Intentions. That brings our threat density down.

    Right now I'm taking the view that the option to go off faster by sacrificing protection is worth something, and you can always play more conservatively if appropriate. But it does mean that GSZ has to demonstrate that it is worth keeping as compared to the more well explored options.

  4. #24

    Re: Culling Tendrils (CulT)

    The problem with the Cabal Therapy route is that you have too many cards that require you to sacrifice a creature and any green creature other than Xantid Swarm has no actual impact on the deck. Even searching for the Dryad Arbor is largely a goldfish play vs aggro decks, otherwise you're better off waiting on a 2 mana Xantid Swarm most of the time - which is why I think Chrome Mox is probably necessary at 3 or so, they also enable Empty the Warrens for what it's worth.

  5. #25

    Re: Culling Tendrils (CulT)

    Has anyone tried cutting the dryad arbors and green sun zeniths for 0 mana artifact creatures + mox opal?
    Maybe with a few tweaks thoughtcast could be added in versions not running ad nauseum.

  6. #26
    Member
    Silent Requiem's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    UK
    Posts

    440

    Re: Culling Tendrils (CulT)

    I actually got a chance to do some testing yesterday, with mixed results. I was facing a bunch of Wasteland decks and I really found the three colour requirements - green & blue to set up, black to go off - quite difficult to pull off. I really, really want to drop the blue so that I'm just dealing with two colours. Mirri's Guile? Might as well test it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexi View Post
    Has anyone tried cutting the dryad arbors and green sun zeniths for 0 mana artifact creatures + mox opal?
    Maybe with a few tweaks thoughtcast could be added in versions not running ad nauseum.
    I've not tried it in this build, but that is certainly at the core of a very solid version of Spanish Inquisition.

    The downside is that even with 4x Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox and LED, you still want about 10+ 'tallmen', or 0 cc artifact creatures. That's actually quite a high number, and while you do want to see one or two for Culling or Therapy, they really suck in multiples. The idea behind using things like Veteran Explorer, Xantid Swarm and Timber Wall is to try and get functionality out of your creatures even when you don't need them as fuel. That said, in an Ad Nauseam version they are essentially invisible, as you just draw right through them, and having more initial mana sources after Ad Nauseam seems really strong.

  7. #27

    Re: Culling Tendrils (CulT)

    I'm not sure cutting blue is possible without Senseis Divining Top, but if you do cut blue then I think you should play Gitaxian Probe, Chrome Mox and Cabal Ritual and maybe try Nights Whispers?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)