Sleeves

[ParkerLewis]

I'm looking to replace a bunch of old sleeves.

- Durability and smooth shuffling. I don't want the sleeves to feel "sticky" or "unsmooth" after just a couple shuffles. If they start feeling "used" after like 100 games, then I guess that's fine.
- I don't care if backs are matte or not, although the previous point might rule out glossy backs (?). Obviously they need to be opaque.
- I want the fronts to be clear. I don't want a blurry / foggy look a lot of "matte front" have seemed to have. I don't really care about glare.
- I want the feel to be smooth. Edges need to not get stuck together / be thicker than the rest of the card.
- The sleeves need to play nice with KMC perfect fits / perfect hards.
- Ideally they'd come in several colors (black, white, and several light tones of red, green, blue).

My experience :

- recent experience with standard Ultra Pro (matte back and glossy front) is actually not that bad, but since I am going to renew a lot of sleeves, I figured it's worth asking around for recommendations.
- I tried Dragon Shield like 10 years ago (if not more). Hated it at the time because the sleeve borders were really marked / stood out (don't know how to express it, but you could see and feel the edges of the sleeves, cards got stuck together one to the next due to these edges, ...) and additionally sleeves were extremely bent right out from the boxes. To me it was 100% pure failure of a product. Now, that was like 10+ years ago, so I'm not saying I have any experience with current DS sleeves and they might be very good now. I just don't want this kind of behavior.

I've looked at The Professor's videos, and from the last one (dated September), it looks like it would be either Dex Protection or the new Dragon Shield. DS's ones might not be 100% opaque for lighter colors, which is a problem, but it really depends on how much they really aren't. On his video, it was not easy to tell.

What are your thoughts ?

[Ephemeron]

I think Dragon Shield Matte sleeves are probably gonna be your best bet. I know what you're talking about with the edges of older Dragon Shields, it was a real problem with the non-matte sleeves I purchased a few years ago and it drove me insane. I haven't had any such problems with the mattes they're producing now though. I haven't had any issues with them splitting and they come in about a billion different colors. I particularly like the mint ones, which are are on the lighter end of the color spectrum, and you cant see though the back of them.

The only problem I've had with them is that they're super tight when brand new, so getting double sleeved cards into them can be a bit of a chore, especially if the perfect fit isn't brand new and has loosened up a bit from playing. I've noticed that after some play, the DS mattes loosen up a bit and it gets a lot easier to sleeve/unsleeve cards with perfect fits on them.

[PirateKing]

Now that Dragon Shield does matte, they really cover all the good points you need.
They've always been super tough. Now that they're not glossy, gone is the sticking and picking up dirt.
Initial colors were limited, but now they got bunches.
They've gotten a whole lot better at quality control. Used to be you got a handful of unusable sleeves in the 100, but I have yet to find one in matte, and that's after 7~8 boxes.

[compacta_d]

I like legion double mattes, but they do get dirty.

Been swapping to dragonshields as of late, but they are super tight for double sleeving. maybe not a problem.

[kombatkiwi]

I like KMC Hyper MAT
Dragon Shield matte are also popular locally but I haven't tried them. The boxes tend to be a few dollars more than the KMC ones and I don't understand why I would want 100 sleeves instead of 80. (I have also never had a problem double sleeving in KMC sleeves with KMC perfect fits). If you need opaque then don't get the white ones.

The standard (non-hyper) mat are also okay but the non-textured backs get marked more easily.
I haven't tried the 'Premium Hyper' or 'Silky' Matte but according to the website the premium ones have the non-glare front you aren't looking for and the 'silky' ones have a slightly smaller size which would probably make double sleeving more annoying, so I would avoid these.

[Claymore]

KMC Hyper Mattes were supposedly bought out and now the quality is absolute garbage, so I wouldn't trust them anymore.

[meffeo]

What about KMC Hyper Mat + KMC Perfect Hard? Since they're produced by the same company they'd perfectly fit, I suppose. Thoughts?

[CabalTherapy]

What about KMC Hyper Mat + KMC Perfect Hard? Since they're produced by the same company they'd perfectly fit, I suppose. Thoughts?

KMC MAT (no hyper) + KMC Perfect Hards = Love

[Ephemeron]

So are KMC Perfect Hard sleeves basically perfect fits but made with the same thicker material that they use for the clear side of normal sleeves? Do foils still look pimpin' in all their glory using this setup?

[ReAnimator]

Has anyone had any experience with the SCG double Matte sleeves?
Not the picture ones but the straight matte solid colour ones.
Like the ones a little down the page here (direct link doesn't work) http://sales.starcitygames.com//sear...eves&start=100

They are way way cheaper than other options, so i'm wondering what the quality is like. I'm thinking of resleeving my cube, and this would save me about a hundred or more dollars, but i don't want to just be throwing that money away if they are not good.


@Jander Sorry dude, i didn't see that you edited the link here, i tried but it didn't work for me, if you want to put the direct link back go nuts.

[kombatkiwi]

KMC Hyper Mattes were supposedly bought out and now the quality is absolute garbage, so I wouldn't trust them anymore.

Have you observed the change in quality yourself or is this only something you've heard? I have never had a problem but admittedly I haven't bought them in a while.
Maybe I will try DS matte next time
I'm personally not a fan of normal DS (unless they have changed the formula), I like them for EDH because they seem very durable and come in a box of 100 but I don't find them very smooth for shuffling

[ronco]

I can't remember if I saw it here or another forum, but I started putting my double sleeved cards in upside down in the DS sleeves for about a week then flipping them the right way after that. A little bit extra work but it works like a charm. They definitely "stretch out" a bit.

DS matte are definitely "sticky" when you shuffle right out of the box. I dislike that a lot but it seems to be getting better with use, so they probably just need to be "broken in" if you will...

[augiedoggy18]

KMC Hyper Mattes were supposedly bought out and now the quality is absolute garbage, so I wouldn't trust them anymore.

I switched from Hyper Mat to DS Matte, and I won't go back. The latest batches of Hyper Mat are shorter than previous, so when you double sleeve, the top of the card nearly sticks out of the sleeve. No bueno for me.

[Vissah]

KMC sleeves are good but were better in the past.

KMC perfect fir and KMC hyper matt black is what I am using for some years and they have been doing a good job.
When I changed sleeves I was thinking of using a color so I bought purple KMC hypermatt and I have do be honost they were proper shit.
They were splitting all over the place and I bought another pack of black ones and had no problem since then.

So if you decide to go the KMC route get some Hypermatts but always the black ones!

[Plague Sliver]

Ultra Pro Mattes + Perfect Fits are the epitome of perfection for me. They are partly responsible for me downgrading a bunch of foils, because they don't have a "bright" look when sleeved. But they last forever.

[ParkerLewis]

Well, after almost a month of postal delay, I finally got some DS Matte and original DS (not "Classic" ones, the original ones).

- Original DS : far better than they were ~10+ years ago. Edges are fine and not creased. Still curly from the box but once fitted with a card, the result much less noticeable than it used to be. Shuffle feel is nice, but these have glossy backs, so a) this is expected, and b) experience says glossy backs are prone to see their shuffle feel degrade faster over time than sleeves with matte back.

- DS Matte : they're great... except I find them to grip a lot from one another. There is simply a lot of friction between the cards. I did not expect this, especially since The Prof did not say a word to that effect in his review. There simply is a lot more friction than with my otherwise "simple" Ultra Pro with matte backs, which is both bothersome and disappointing to me. It's a real shame because otherwise they look like great sleeves (well they better be given their price).

In the end, I'll probably be sticking with the simple Ultra Pro with matte backs.

[walked]

I'm not a fan of the logos; but I've found Hareruya sleeves to be the best. Ulra Pro and Dragonshield are ok; but both have faults I cant find with Hareruya.

Downside is theyre expensive and can be tough to find / have to import them. I just bought a case and have sleeves for days.

[ReAnimator]

As a follow up to my post up thread, i ordered a small amount of the SCG Double Matte sleeves as well as their own brand of Perfect Fits.

The perfect fits are nice, they are a little worse than the KMC PFits i'm used to just cause they have a slightly thicker seam, but they are 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost (Depending if they are on sale which is super frequently) which is incredible. I find them better than the ultra pro PFits.
I'm sold and i'm never going to buy expensive PFits again.

The Double Matte sleeves are pretty nice, they are very easy to get a double sleeved card into compared to Dragon Shield Mattes, the SCG's are about a full millimetre wider, so no struggle there, Which is my biggest issue with the DS Mattes.
Not sure if they are as durable but in testing they have shuffled fine, i'm going to take them to a grand prix next weekend and i'll report back.
My biggest complaint is that since the fronts are matte, you can lose a lot of lustre especially on foil cards. That's just aesthetics though it doesn't bother me much and for some it will be a non issue.
The cost vs DS Mattes is about half or less so good value. I'll see if they hold up.

[Stuart]

Longtime KMC Hyper Matte user who just switched after too many Hyper Mattes splitting. I recently sleeved my Vintage deck in KMC Perfect Hards + Dragon Shield Black Mattes, and it's working out perfectly. Some points, for those considering this setup:
- Dragon Shields are a little bit more snug than Hyper Mattes, so when you're using Perfect Hards, you need to finagle the cards into the sleeve a bit. The technique I've found is sliding the card in normally about 2/3 of the way, then placing your index finger on the middle of the card to get it in the last bit.
- 75 cards in Perfect Hards + sleeves is roughly the size of an EDH deck, so you'll need a bigger box. The Ultimate Guard Sidewinder is working amazingly for me; it's the perfect size, and the magnet system is much stronger than what you'll find on a Ultra Pro Mana Flip Box. Highly recommended.

[The_Spoonerman]

I've been using the Eclipse sleeves from UltraPro for a little while now and love them, but you're going to want to avoid them if you like foils; the matte front dulls foil shine considerably. If you're like me and go strictly non-foil, though, they're great.