GB Vengevine [Hogaak Placeholder Thread]

[ReAnimator]

Way back, before Survival was banned rather than running UG, UGW or GBW, I was running a straight GB Aggro version. I top 8’d a bunch of local events with it, the strengths it had vs the more stock lists were that it’s agro plan A was very strong and could beat people on it’s own, and then if you needed to go to the late game you had your survival engine for that. It was also very very fast, you could kill on turn 2 and 3 without that much trouble with is pretty insane especially just off of creatures, not that it was the focus, but nice when it happened.
(Turn one putrid imp discard 2 vengevines and a rootwalla, swing for 8, turn two, swing with everything and pump rootwalla for 12 exactly)

Fast forward to today, and there are a whole bunch of new goodies to help make this work. The survival version didn’t even have access to all the awesome Return to Ravnica GB cards. So I’ve dusted it off and started toying around with it again. It still has the turn 2 and 3 kills, which is nice, it doesn’t have the late game inevitability of Survival of course, but it does now have somewhat of a draw engine and tools to better grind out the late game. The fast kills are in no way the point of the deck just a side benefit if they do happen. It’s possible I should remove more of the interactivity and focus on those explosive early turns, but I would worry about combo matches a lot. I’m more interested in being semi well rounded than a glass cannon. If I was all in I would just be on dredge, so it’s better to play with those strengths and flexibility in mind.
Because we aren’t on Blue, there is a way higher degree of inconsistency here, so I’m trying to fix that, but I’m not quite sure how or if it’s even possible.

This is very much a work in progress, I’m just brewing and having fun at this point, but I feel there is enough going on here that it’s worth exploring.


GB Vengevine

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Putrid Imp
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Cryptbreaker
2 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Vengevine
3 Hollow One

3 Cabal Therapy
3 Collective Brutality
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Driven to Despair

4 Bayou
1 Pendelhaven
1 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
5 Black Fetches
2 Green Fetches


So a few card notes on specific choices:

Cryptbreaker
I’m testing this out, it does a lot of heavy lifting for a 1 drop. It can draw cards, make creatures and be a discard outlet. Those are all things this deck is very much interested in. The big knock against it, is that it doesn’t do much in multiples, or attack well, and I really don’t have a ton of zombies in here, so it can take a bit to get online. That being said this deck isn’t trying to just abuse it as much as possible, and it still does good work even with that low zombie count.

Hollow One
I want a cheap and big back up creature other than vengevine, but hollow one does require you to jump through some hoops, and is way less impressive off the top. It’s been ok, but not fantastic, and sometimes a bit clunky. It’s possible that cutting back on the interactivity and pushing the synergies more would let Hollow One shine more, like the RB and RG lists you are seeing in modern right now. Without the draw engines in this build he may be the wrong solution to this problem. It is nice that he doesn’t get affected by graveyard hate or killed by most removal in the format. Street wraith could be a consideration here, to help out with this creature and to maybe shave a few lands, but I don’t know if that’s enough incentive for the life loss involved.

Driven to Despair
This card is really great and can do some absurd things in here. But it is very situational. I’d love to jam the full 4 but there just isn’t room, and it isn’t always good. Vs the decks with a lot of creature interactivity it can be pretty lack luster, but if you can get a big board presence early this will do some absurd things. The evasion it provides is also not to be underestimated.

Abrupt Decay
Oddly enough I’m pretty unhappy with this spell right now. You need some sort of removal, but not being able to deal with bigger creatures (anglers can be an issue) and things like Jace and batter skull that cost more than 3. Pulse is fine out of the board or even one main but it is expensive and clunky. Not sure what the best interactive option is.

Cabal Therapy
3 is a weird number for this spell, but honestly you don’t always want to be sacrificing a creature, and you can’t always do it for free. Vs the fair decks this isn’t super great, just fine, but you need something to be competitive with combo game one, and can always be boarded out.


While this is fairly graveyard dependent it isn’t wholly dependent, we don’t have goyf or bloodghast here so grave hate isn’t as bad as it could be. That being said, surgicals on vengvines are an issue and I’m not sure what the best way to combat this is. Ground Seal is cool, but It shuts off deathrites. Other catch all grave hate isn’t as bad, as you can still operate and hard cast things and play a fair and normal game, to some extent.

I’ve tested a one of Dryad Arbor just for potential synergies with therapy and getting an extra body for driven. But it’s gotten in the way more than it has helped so I’ve cut if for now, green isn’t very valuable in here so you don’t want too many mono green sources.

Sideboard

There are a world of options to play with here. The tricky part is the deck doesn’t operate that well if you dilute the creatures too much, so if there are creature based options those are preferred, as you can board in more things with out diluting your deck. However all the high impact sideboard cards are non creatures for the most part. My big question is if I want a bunch of reactive and hate cards or if I should try to be proactive and protect my own synergies.
I am fairly soft to sweepers, but Golgari Charm and other options don’t really help protect from a deluge or something similar, not sure what to do there.

Things that I want more of after board:

Creature removal:
Push, Go for the Throat, Dismember, Pulse, Decay, shriekmaw, Lilly, Edict, Pernicious Deed,
Big Game Hunter is a fun one and works really really well with your over all plan. How many you want depends on your meta, if you have lots of sneak and show, eldrazi, or reanimator, I’d want to be up to 3 or 4 of these.

Combo Disruption:
Therapy number 4, Lilly, Chains of Meph, Hymn, Surgical, Thoughtseize, Pithing Needle

Graveyard hate:
Leyline, Surgical, Macabre, Spellbomb, Sc-Ooze

Matchup specific cards and catch alls
Golgari Charm, Dread of Night, Carpet of Flowers, Pernicious Deed, Shapers Sanctuary, Marsh Casualties


I’m going to try to get out to some local events over the holidays and hopefully some real world testing will answer some of these questions.


Current list:


4 Putrid Imp
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Cryptbreaker
2 Diregraf Colossus
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Vengevine

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Collective Brutality

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth