Tombstalker seems like a really cool option for an alternative win condition. I think the current creature suite can get there by itself, but having a haymaker that isn't Marit Lage isn't a bad idea. I was doing Tarmogoyfs in the sideboard for a little while, which worked really well in some matchups. Burn especially, which I see often, and Chalice Stompy decks that cut off my Crop Rotations. I could always just play a Tarmogoyf, which works with Unearch (which I want to try again.) EDIT: Flipping a Tombstalker with Bob seems really atrocious; I see there was a full 4 Libraries in that list, which really helps mitigate the risk. Maybe just good old Tarmogoyf. Maybe there is an alternative threat I can use, because I love the evasion that Tombstalker gave. EDIT #2: Phyrexian Obliterator seems good but hard to cast. Tarmogoyf is looking better and better. Old skool? Hypnotic Specter? EDIT#3: Thrun? Garruk Relentless?
Going to try these small tweaks and see where it takes me:
-1 Probe
-1 Therapy
-1 Sejiri Steppe
+1 Eternal Witness
+1 Unearth
+1 Chrome Mox
I think Liliana is better at grinding than Hymn, although curving discard from Thoughtseize into Hymn is in fact one of the better 'fair' lines this deck can do. I might still squeeze in a couple Hymns in the sideboard, mostly for the combo and control matchups like Storm and Miracles. The real open questions I am facing are how to approach Wasteland and Pithing Needle.
-Wasteland helps immensely with the grind plan, helping me to cut resources off the opponent when I'm playing 'fair' with Bob/Library/Liliana. One of the harder matchups is Czech pile (they attack from so many angles) and Wasteland can really mess with their mana, especially if I can ping off DRS with Abrupt Decay.
-Pithing Needle is another t1 play that synergizes with Probe in a big way, I've used it to cut off fetchlands on both play/draw. In a sense it is doing the same as Wasteland but also typically naming Wasteland in the matches where I see it. Ghost Quarter is a great utility removal, but I don't want multiples, it's basically a silver bullet for Karakas or sometimes Maze of Ith. I can't rely on it truly cutting off a color.
-Is Wasteland in the sideboard a viable option? Some games will just naturally go long, and I'm planning on having a good grind plan anyways. I don't know if the slots would be worth playing. I think it could replace Choke, but that's the only real spot for it. Everything else is too important.
Overall, I'm really happy with the deck as it has been playing out. I played on Magic Workstation (not the best testing ground, I know) and beat mono-black Pox, drew with Czech pile (he left during g3), and beat UR Delver (the agro version with Stormchaser Mage.) At least one of the games in all the matches went into a long grindy plan, a couple which I lost eventually because I couldn't utilize my draw engine (Bob against UR Delver at 3 life) or because Library bricked (Pox.) I think the Unearth plan would be very good at getting back Deathrites (which have overperformed in a big way in almost every matchup) Hexmages (killing PW's is cool) and Confidants (which die a lot.) Witness would get back removal, Crop Rotations that get countered, Depths if I need to do it again, and can combo with Unearth for a good engine. I know Loam could do the same, but this gives versatility and essentially does the same thing, if slower.
So, if you're going 'tl;dr', should I play Wastelands or just stick to Pithing Needles? My gut says Pithing Needle is just too important and Wasteland doesn't have a strong enough impact for my game plan, even the long grindy one. I know Turbo Depths has it figured out already, but I am deliberately going in a different direction with Bob/DRS instead of Lotus Petal/Elvish Spirit Guide.
EDIT#4: Now hear me out...Smuggler's Copter? I would splash in a Dryad Arbor in somehow. The looting seems quite good, and a 3/3 flyer is a decent clock in it's own right.
Last edited by Mr. Safety; 02-26-2018 at 03:11 PM.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Newest list:
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
1x Eternal Witness
3x Gitaxian Probe
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Thoughtseize
3x Pithing Needle
3x Hymn to Tourach
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Sylvan Library
4x Crop Rotation
1x Unearth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
1x Bayou
2x Blooming Marsh
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Swamp
2x Forest
2x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Maze of Ith
Sideboard is in flux. Locked in slots:
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
2x Diabolic Edict
That leaves 3 open slots for Choke, Tarmogoyf, Krosan Grip, Go for the Throat, Life from the Loam, Engineered Explosives, Duress, Golgari Charm, or other cards that could be suggested.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I think I've finally gotten the 'gotta-fuck-around-more-with-this' out of my system. I spent some time yesterday during an unexpected day off from work, got my shit together, and worked out a decent list. Consistency has gone way up, and there is really only a few slots that aren't nailed down, but having a fluid 2-3 cards to mess around with seems good depending on how testing goes. I got a good chance at testing on Magic Workstation (even ran into another Sourcer!)
4x DRS
4x Hexmage
4x Bob
4x GitProbe
4x Therapy
2x Pithing Needle
3x Thoughtseize
1x Fatal Push (fluid slot)
4x Crop Rotation
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Sylvan Library
1x Sylvan Scrying (fluid slot)
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
1x Bayou
2x Blooming Marsh
2x Swamp
2x Forest
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Wasteland
1x Thespian's Stage
2x Dark Depths
Sideboard
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Toxic Deluge
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Hymn to Tourach (fluid slot)
1x Life from the Loam (fluid slot)
1x Sylvan Library (fluid slot)
1x Maze of Ith
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
1x Glacial Chasm
I waffle on the 2nd Library, which in some matchups is my best card and others is just abysmally too slow to count on. In the end I wanted a 4th spot removal with Fatal Push to go with the Abrupt Decays. Liliana is better at establishing inevitability, which is why I opted for her main over the sideboarded Hymns. The Hymns come in against opposing combo decks that are faster. Needle was so good with Probe that I left in 2 copies, even though I'm playing with my own Wastelands. If I can play around it by Waste-ing first, then playing Needle, fine. If not I just accept that protecting my lands is more important than killing others. Needle will name Karakas most of the time anyways, or just messing with in-hand fetches.
Pretty excited to be testing this out, it feels good.
EDIT: I've been cruising the Depths thread, so I picked up a couple copies of Rite of Consumption, might even squeeze one in maindeck. Also want to try Smuggler's Copter x1.
Last edited by Mr. Safety; 03-13-2018 at 09:45 AM.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Played in a local FNM, went 2-2 beating Chalice Bomberman and ANT, losing to Br Reanimator and Esper Mentor. I definitely learned quite a bit about how to adjust the deck. Here was my list, below I'll post changes that I will be making.
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
3x Gitaxian Probe
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Thoughtseize
2x Fatal Push
4x Crop Rotation
1x Rancor
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Hymn to Tourach
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Sylvan Library
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Marsh Flats
1x Windswept Heath
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bayou
2x Blooming Marsh
2x Forest
2x Swamp
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Wasteland
2x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage
Sideboard
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Diabolic Edict
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Pithing Needle
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Life from the Loam
1x Sylvan Library
So Liliana maindeck isn't fantastic, but I want her for the grindy matches. Swapping her straight away for Pithing Needle maindeck. I somehow forgot to include a Sejiri Steppe in my list (doh!) so -1 Wasteland, +1 Steppe in the maindeck. There is tension from the Wasteland + Needle (sometimes naming Wasteland) but I don't think it's enough to stop it from working. Sideboard I am going -1 Life from the Loam, -1 Maze of Ith, +2 Rite of Consumption, and adding Liliana there. The rites would definitely have helped me win at least 2 games against Esper Mentor, as would have Sejiri Steppe to get past Baleful Strix. Also going -1 Rancor (even though it has great uses) and +1 Smugglers Copter. Not sure on Dryad Arbor just yet...
Br reanimator is a challenging deck to face. I lost g1 to Iona, with no active Deathrite Shaman (he pulled it off t1.) I eeked out g2 somehow, I think it was after I Thoughtseized and Therapy-ed his Reanimates. I had Needles, followed up with Surgical Extraction g3 and he still got there with Grave Titan. I mulligan-ed hard, but it didn't pan out.
Overall, I'm very happy with the deck. A few minor tweaks and I think it will be close to where I want it.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Another Shaman/Confidant build did well recently, taking 5th. Some noticeable differences, biggest one is always 4x each Depths/Stage, where I'm at most 2/2. I also don't have the 2nd/3rd Bayou to really get my mana base nailed down. I like the Dread of Nights in the board for D&T, has splash damage against Maverick. Pretty cool to see something similar do well; it validates that this isn't such a terrible idea.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18840&d=317909&f=LE
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Got a lot of great insight from the Turbo Depths thread, especially in regards to Probe/Therapy.
I'm still grinding away with this mid-range concoction w/depths combo. I'm going back to playing Wasteland myself, because I remembered that Wasteland kills opposing Wastelands/Karakas, and it can grind a fair plan better than Ghost Quarter. Accordingly, I have dropped the Pithing Needles. If I'm not naming Wasteland so I can play it, or Deathrite Shaman (another popular target) because I'm playing it...the reasons for using it are getting lower. So instead I am working in a full set of Lotus Petal, 3x Duress, and dropping Probe/Therapy completely. With such an emphasis on Confidant/Library, and the sideboarded Bitterblossoms, lifeloss is starting to stack up too much. Without Needle, Probe gets worse as well. I think the free, fast mana will be much more valuable than the free peek/draw. I absolutely love the idea of a t1 Confidant/Library, too. It will also make the deck probably 1/2 a turn faster (and it was about a full turn slower than traditional Turbo Depths already.) Liliana is back in as another way to grind out games.
New list, excited to try it:
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
3x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
4x Crop Rotation
1x Fatal Push
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Sylvan Library
2x Hymn to Tourach
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x Lotus Petal
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Marsh Flats
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Windswept Heath
1x Bayou
2x Blooming Marsh
2x Swamp
2x Forest
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Wasteland
2x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Sejiri Steppe
Sideboard
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Bitterblossom
2x Toxic Deluge
2x Diabolic Edict
2x Rite of Consumption
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
Definitely considering Tarmogoyf again as a transformative sideboard option...because of Rite of Consumption. I could drop Bitterblossom, Glacial Chasm, and maybe an Edict for 4x Tarmogoyf.
For now, I'm looking forward to more degenerate starts with Lotus Petal. Deathrite Shaman isn't really that much slower than Elvish Spirit Guide, and he has a lot more going on for him.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I have been messing with a lot of these cards for a while now. It seems like our minds may work similarly. I also started on the Nic-Fit thread and moved through Pox as well. I really liked Nic-Fit but wanted a combo finish and Depths combo was really slow in that deck. I also really wanted to play Cabal Therapy with Probe. My biggest problem there was that it takes up too much space. I only play casual because I'm timid to bring a deck with no true duals or fetches to a tournament. But my list seems very strong in my playgroup. I only own one Bob now but I have some experimental lists where he looks real good.
Actually I arrived at this deck because I really wanted to break a particular card.
Mirri's Guile
Ironically I don't own any copies yet but in my experimental lists it is an all-star. I think I would try and run four Mirri's Guile and three Sylvan Library. These two cards play so well with Bob and Crop rotation. And When you're in a close game it is so nice to have the edge these cards provide. Also I have liked some equipment. I currently run a Jitte and a Loxodon Warhammer and the Warhammer has been great. The deck has a tight curve and some acceleration so a singleton of something like Warhammer has been quite castable for me. Also I find myself wanting sweepers sometimes, but is a bit of a nonbo with Bob. If my contributions sound engaging I will post my current list.
I took this to FNM last night and went 0-3, with a bunch of feel bads. I stole a few games, and all my matches went to 3 games, but I'm fairly well done with the idea for now. I'm actually going to move into junk nic-fit.
Feel free to post a list though, I'd gladly be a sounding board for you. I think Mirri's Guile is worse than library, because the most common way to deal with the token is swords to plowshares, which lets you aggressively draw extra cards. Guile is great, but 7 copies of that type of effect is way too many. Regarding probe/therapy, I've been convinced that Duress is just better, and the life loss from probe was significant.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
looks like a list who took ispiration from this topic won the EW in Europe?
https://www.magicbazar.fr/article/52...l_weekend_2018
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/120602
Jody Keith as well this past weekend
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Do you sideboard into BB/Goyf every match or just the ones where you're worried about Wasteland?
The same guy also made Top8 at GP Madrid earlier this year: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18737&d=317153&f=LE
Pithing Needle is always a 3-4-of in the maindeck to deal with Wasteland. Another way to get around it is to always play Depths last, pop it with Hexmage even if they have Wasteland by doing it in response. Double Wasteland is tough, but again, Needles. Bitterblossom I think is mostly for the miracles and D&T matchups (that's why I was playing it) because getting a Depths through Terminus is such a slog and the recurring tokens are really good against Flickerwisps etc, buying time to deal with Karakas/Wasteland. Tarmogoyf is a way to apply pressure while threatening the combo, mostly good against decks like Death & Taxes (horrible matchup) and making the battlefield clogged up against anemic smaller threats. Goyf typically beats for 5 a turn, which is a pretty fast clock in itself. It turns it into a rock-like deck with discard, decays, bobs, and goyfs. Sometimes that gets you there.
I sideboarded Tarmogoyf in my local for Burn (another fast threat they can't deal with), Grixis Delver (higher threat count is good), and Pox (who have a ton of sac effects to deal with Marit Lage.)
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
So “Slow” Depths is a very real thing right now. I just 4-0’d a weekly with it.
Bobs were straight gas and thedexk was a ton of fun to play.
2-0 DnT
2-0 Elves
2-0 Pox
2-1 Turbo Depths
Is this the right thread for DRS/Bob Depths or is that in the Turbo thread?
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
There is a lot of discussion on the Turbo Depths thread. This thread started as an experiment, then it morphed into a Slow Depths thread. At the time I started the thread there were others that were tinkering with a DRS/Confidant build, I tried some crazy shit, but now the current Slow Depths deck is really close to an established version of Depths combo (alongside Turbo Depths and R/G Lands.) I certainly didn't come up with the idea first, I was just piggy-backing on some fringe lists.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I'm not sure exactly when the title changed from dark depths to turbo depths but I've covered most of the lists in the primer. Last time I checked they were discussing dark confident. Dark confident was never a bad choice but it certainly wasn't a party of lists that played turbo versions. If they are quick to dismiss ideas it is generally because they've tested almost everything already.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Sure, it's a developed deck at this point. However, the slower depths decks using not only dark confidant but also deathrite shaman have been doing well. It's a real deck.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I feel like they are 2 completely different versions of the same deck with different sideboard and main board plans. I will continue to read through the thread but aside from a few Channel Fireball articles/a video I can't find much aside from some major tournament finishes.
It also seems like the "Slow" version could just be a meta adjustment of the Turbo Version, but since players like myself have no interest to play the "Turbo" lists and tons of interest in the grindier lists... it makes a difference in this context.
Obviously no one wants this to degrade into the BUG fiasco of 2016(?) where we had 3 different BUG lists that all played 75% of the same cards, but I am looking for some info/a place to discuss the slower lists and want to make sure that I am posting in the correct location. Safety has done a good job of posting about Bob Depths for a while now, so this seemed like a natural place to start.
4
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
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