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Thread: Bob Depths

  1. #61
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    Re: Bob Depths

    If you want I can update the primer, shave off all of my experimental bullshit, and post some winning/high placement lists. I would likely start with Jody Kieth's version and the one that won Eternal Weekend, but I know there are a few other lists floating around on mtgtop8.com as well.

    EDIT: OP updated with Eternal Weekend winning list (which is also card-for-card the one that recently won an MTGO Online Legacy Challenge.) This seems like a good starting point, then I'll get Jody Kieth's version incorporated and any other high-placed finishes.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 06-06-2018 at 03:55 PM.
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    Re: Bob Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    If you want I can update the primer, shave off all of my experimental bullshit, and post some winning/high placement lists. I would likely start with Jody Kieth's version and the one that won Eternal Weekend, but I know there are a few other lists floating around on mtgtop8.com as well.

    EDIT: OP updated with Eternal Weekend winning list (which is also card-for-card the one that recently won an MTGO Online Legacy Challenge.) This seems like a good starting point, then I'll get Jody Kieth's version incorporated and any other high-placed finishes.
    Love.

    First question for this thread: what is the plan against faster combo? The winning sideboards just appear to have 3 survivals and a Cage but I have found that to be kind of light. Does the 8 discard into win plan just have to be good enough or does it warrant Hymn/sphere effects?
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    Re: Bob Depths

    Primer updated with Jody Kieth's list.

    The plan is to lean on the discard of course, along with silver bullet lands: Karakas for Sneak/Show, Bojuka Bog for Reanimator/Storm/Dredge. Against elves there is Golgari Charm (and to a smaller extent Grafdigger's Cage.) Belcher is a nuisance, but rarely seen. TES can be difficult because it is fast, probably 1/2-1 turn faster, and able to work through a discard. I think that's why Jody Kieth was sideboarding Cabal Therapy. It gives you 10(!) targeted discards, 2 of them repeatable, so the odds of drawing your best interaction is high. I tinkered with Probe/Therapy early on, which gives velocity, information, and allows Cabal Therapy to be much more effective than a single Duress/Thoughtseize. It comes at a cost though, and probably not one that should be ignored. I also really liked Hymn to Tourach, usually as a 2-of, because it could allow for chaining disruption. T1 Thoughtseize, t2 Hymn can devastate almost any strategy, but especially faster combo decks. At that point you can then curve out with your smaller threats into a win or just give you a few turns to assemble a Marit Lage. I would argue that if you expect a meta-game with a high saturation of fast combo that Slow Depths is probably not as good as Turbo Depths.

    In a typical meta-game with a lot of blue-based 'fair' decks, I think the mid-range plan is really good. Rather than banking on a 20/20 in every game you can do the slow grind, which is surprisingly good against the worst matchups. Discard into Bob/Library is about as good as you can hope for against Miracles, and discard into Dread of Night/Marsh Casualties/Golgari Charm is about as good as you can hope for against D&T.
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    Re: Bob Depths

    Another good finish for Slow Depths, this one from Erick Santos again (seen him attached to the deck before.) I'm not a fan of the shaky mana-base, especially considering he's using Nev Disc and Deed in the board. I never went below 24 lands, and 25 isn't unreasonable. Another Forest + Swamp would make me feel better. *Shrug* He made it work.

    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19383&d=323453&f=LE

    Looks like he has had modest success with Slow Depths since at least August of last year as well.

    http://mtgtop8.com/search?player=Erick+Santos
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  5. #65

    Re: Bob Depths

    Explore over Sylvan Scrying is interesting too.
    Loam/Ice Station Zebra/Depths/Jund/GB Pox

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    Re: Bob Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by hovercraft View Post
    Explore over Sylvan Scrying is interesting too.
    Also: zero copies of Sylvan Library. Pretty sure that isn't how I'd run it.
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    Re: Bob Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Sure, it's a developed deck at this point. However, the slower depths decks using not only dark confidant but also deathrite shaman have been doing well. It's a real deck.
    I consider Dark depths as a deck to be a deck thats running 4x dark depths, 4x thespian's stage, 4x vampire hexmage. This is the core of the combo. There are really 2 versions of depths with wide variation of cards. Turbo version and midrange builds make up 1 and lands makes up the other. However, once you make a deck that is going past mid game you start warping the deck to a point where it doesn't play the same as the others. This is where the lands version comes in. Its slow, it's controlling, and it plays very different since It's strategy is different. This is why it has it's own thread.

    If you were to make good arguments and put up good numbers with a "bob" depths list it wouldn't get its own thread. The turbo / regular thread would adopt it. They dont care how fast the deck is, they just want to win. At the time the deck was being played the turbo version was seeing the most success, mainly because the other versions were underrepresented, but it became popular.
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    Re: Bob Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Also: zero copies of Sylvan Library. Pretty sure that isn't how I'd run it.
    Me too. I'm running 2 Librarys and 3 Bobs and i'm pretty happy with it.

    But i'm still not sure about the Goyf SB plan, because i never tried it. Miracles, Grixis Delver, Czech Pile, Lands, DnT are all good matchups to bring Goyf in, right?
    I could see playing 2 in the SB.

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    Re: Bob Depths

    Seems right to me. Bitterblossom is also good against all of those matchups, especially the blue ones like Czech/Miracles. D&T really needs Marsh Casualties or Dread of Night to get up to the 50% rate, and it's still a tough one when facing StP, Karakas, Wasteland, and Flickerwhisp all in one deck. Tarmogoyf is quite good against Lands and D&T because it distracts their Swords to Plowshares and it's a non-land threat or it's too big for Punishing Fire to deal with.

    Some lists also play a singleton Rancor in the maindeck, which can be very good considering some of the roles it can play: trample over flying blockers, makes Hexmage a 4/1 first strike, allows Dark Confidant to hit harder, and even allows Deathrite to beat for 3 if Rest in Peace/Leyline of the Void is involved. I always felt it was worth it's slot.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 06-12-2018 at 02:20 PM.
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    Re: Bob Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    I consider Dark depths as a deck to be a deck thats running 4x dark depths, 4x thespian's stage, 4x vampire hexmage. This is the core of the combo. There are really 2 versions of depths with wide variation of cards. Turbo version and midrange builds make up 1 and lands makes up the other. However, once you make a deck that is going past mid game you start warping the deck to a point where it doesn't play the same as the others. This is where the lands version comes in. Its slow, it's controlling, and it plays very different since It's strategy is different. This is why it has it's own thread.

    If you were to make good arguments and put up good numbers with a "bob" depths list it wouldn't get its own thread. The turbo / regular thread would adopt it. They dont care how fast the deck is, they just want to win. At the time the deck was being played the turbo version was seeing the most success, mainly because the other versions were underrepresented, but it became popular.
    Two things:

    1) The thread is called 'Turbo Depths', not 'Dark Depths'. Otherwise I agree.
    2) There is very little reaction in the Turbo thread when people bring up questions about the slow version. People obviously want to talk about the mid-range version of the deck, but it's stifled when visiting the Turbo thread. *shrug* Take of that what you will.
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  11. #71

    Re: Bob Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Another good finish for Slow Depths, this one from Erick Santos again (seen him attached to the deck before.) I'm not a fan of the shaky mana-base, especially considering he's using Nev Disc and Deed in the board. I never went below 24 lands, and 25 isn't unreasonable. Another Forest + Swamp would make me feel better. *Shrug* He made it work.

    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19383&d=323453&f=LE

    Looks like he has had modest success with Slow Depths since at least August of last year as well.

    http://mtgtop8.com/search?player=Erick+Santos
    Hello Mr. Safety and all member of this topic. Thanks to keep an eye on my results. It's funny cause i was inspired by this topic to change my Turbo Depths to a Midrange version.
    The Turbo Version is a powerfull weapon, but in a field with answers the performance drops dramatically.
    Let me show you my points for the changes:
    1) 22 Lands: in fact i use 25, Lotus petal is a land in this build. But without ways to put those lands on battlefield the card advantage isn't good enough.
    2) Explore: The list was mistyped, it's as Exploration. The same as above. Bob can give full combo, but the speed is downsized for the land drop limit.
    3) No Sylvan Library: Besides the deck is midrange, the life count isn't a problem (unless you're facing a burn *Shrug*). So leave the Bob do his job and go forward.
    4) Disc and Deed: They are rehearsals against Moon Stompy and other locks. I still do not have complete opinion about them. So I always leave 2 to 3 sidebord slot in search of better options. In my toolkit are: Deed, Nev, Plague Boiler, Gaze of Granite, EE. Any tool that may clean the way to the victory.

    In the theme Turbo x Slow. The main strategy is the same for both, but the alternative ways are the point of discuss and should be encouraged. Some times 'potato, patato', but we can't be always right.

    I hope I contributed to the topic, just as it did for my current version.

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    Re: Bob Depths

    Thanks for the response Erick! You've obviously done well in a few events piloting this deck, so we appreciate the reports.

    I think I'm going to try Collective Brutality in this deck, it does a ton of really good work. This deck isn't all-in, so incremental advantage is something we definitely want to look at when battling fair. Discard, removal, and reach all in one card seems very good. I'll probably try 2, test it out on Magic Workstation and get back to everyone on how good it performs. I'm still learning/in-love with NicFit but I return to this deck quite often, at least to evaluate card choices and test on Workstation.
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    Re: Bob Depths

    Another slow list did well 6/23:

    http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27905&iddeck=225701

    Solnox is playing maindeck Confidants now, which seems to split the difference (still no Deathrites/Decays main.) I mention it here because the Turbo Depths thread doesn't see a ton of activity, and it's not a common choice in the maindeck.

    http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27863&iddeck=225189

    Here's a couple lists from 6/17 in a German tournament, 4th and 8th respectively:

    http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27843&iddeck=224951
    http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27843&iddeck=224955

    I did get a 'stock' list to apple713 in the Turbo thread, but he hasn't posted it as a variant in the OP yet. Until then, I'll keep updates current in this thread.
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  14. #74

    Re: Bob Depths

    playing with:
    Merfolks
    Turbo / Mirange Depths
    Nic Fit

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    Re: Bob Depths

    For real. Confidant is still good, and maybe decay is still maindeck worthy. We really need to see how it shakes out.
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    Re: Bob Depths

    I've been tinkering with this deck again, and I think including Dark Confidant is still good enough to go for an alternative list than all-in. I don't think it requires a separate thread, but here is what I'm testing ATM:

    4x Vampire Hexmage
    3x Dark Confidant
    4x Elvish Spirit Guide
    4x Thoughtseize
    3x Duress
    2x Collective Brutality
    3x Pithing Needle
    1x Sylvan Library
    4x Crop Rotation
    2x Expedition Map
    2x Sylvan Scrying
    4x Lotus Petal
    1x Rancor
    3x Dark Depths
    3x Thespian's Stage
    4x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Bayou
    2x Blooming Marsh
    2x Swamp
    1x Forest
    1x Mishra's Factory
    1x Sejiri Steppe
    1x Ghost Quarter
    1x Bojuka Bog
    3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    Sideboard
    3x Faerie Macabre
    3x Abrupt Decay
    1x Karakas
    1x Liliana, the Last Hope
    2x Toxic Deluge
    3x Not of this World
    2x Rite of Consumption


    Basic plan is to swap Not of this World for Bobs post-board, depending on matchup. Confidant is generally better at grinding out games, but against difficult matchups like Death and Taxes Not of this World comes in to help protect Marit Lage. Overall, the deck is designed to be decent at a fast combo but resilient enough to grind out games against typically bad matchups (Miracles, Death and Taxes.)

    I am testing the singleton Rancor in the maindeck, but I think it would probably be better as Confidant/Duress #4. Collective Brutality is designed to help give utility as a discard and removal (Baleful Strix, etc.) and allows me to theoretically cut to 3x Duress. Turn 1 Dark Confidant is pretty fucking amazing, btw. If I untap with him he will recoup the Petal/SSG immediately. If he's countered, that's taking away interaction for the combo.

    Another route I am considering taking is including 1x Golgari Rot Farm. It's not for mana but rather to rebuy the EtB effects like Steppe/Bojuka Bog and to protect the combo (in response to Wasteland, Crop Rotation > GRF, put DD to hand and fizzle the wasteland.)
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