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Thread: 5C Control

  1. #1
    bruizar
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    5C Control

    Here's a deck I've been playing around with. The idea is to accelerate (like nic fit) into late game superior versions of existing legacy cards. That means, counters and discard with added, two-for-one type effects. These cards are subpar because they usually cost 1cc too much. If you can accelerate your land drops, this downside can be mitigated into a powerful late game control strategy, at least, that's the hypothesis.



    [Land 22]
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Bayou
    1 Tropical island
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wasteland
    3 Pillar of the Paruns
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    [ Ramp & Selection 10]
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Atarka’s Command
    3 Manamorphose

    [Selection 4]
    4 Brainstorm

    [Discard 3]
    3 Thoughtseize

    [Offensive Discard 8]
    2 Collective Brutality
    3 Blightning
    3 Kolaghan's Command

    [Offensive Counters 6]
    3 Countersquall
    3 Undermine

    [Offensive Removal 6]
    2 Crackling Doom
    3 Fiery Confluence
    1 Vapor Snag

    [Planeswalker 2]
    2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

  2. #2

    Re: 5C Control

    I kind of like the wonky idea. However, eventhough all the 2-for-1s, does it keep up with 4c pile? How does it fare versus a mana denial deck such as DnT, Canadian or lands?

  3. #3

    Re: 5C Control

    Very limited acceleration, 5 cmc4 cards - I really don't know about the 3rd Fiery Confluence, and zero draw engine. Also, Crackling Doom is kinda terrible. It's a bad Diabolic Edict with a shock attached.

    No Force of Will and no draw engine to speak of. You've got a lot of cmc3 sorceries, and a lot of cmc3 instants. Your only win condition I can see is Chandra.

    Look, I love me some 5 color control, but that list has a LOT of issues. Also a lot of mono-colored cards to be running Pillar of the Paruns.

  4. #4

    Re: 5C Control

    I like that you have a very clear idea: "I'm playing a control deck but I don't need any dedicated finishers because all my interactive elements have Lava Spike tacked on". Unfortunately this idea probably won't work in legacy:

    Undermine vs Counterspell
    Crackling Doom vs Diabolic Edict
    Blightning vs Hymn to Tourach

    You claim these cards have added "two for one" effects but a 'free' Lava Spike is not card advantage. It's not a good enough reason to be playing these cards. The difference between 2 and 3 mana is a lot in a format with the following:
    - Daze
    - Stifle
    - Wasteland
    - Thalia

    Not only do the 'fair' decks legacy beat you with the above cards, combo decks in general are too fast. Good luck trying to beat Show and Tell or ANT or whatever with Cancel and Mind Rot

    Aside from these format considerations the deck in general just seems to have many problems
    - Pillar of the Paruns can't cast your 5x 2RR spells and you only have 3 lands that produce red
    - You don't have anything to return with Kolaghans Command except for DRS
    - None of the modes on Atarkas Command make sense in this deck (the 'land into play' isn't great because you have no card draw to fuel it)
    - Despite the 'philosophy' of playing all "burn interaction" and no finishers you still apparently want 2x Chandra, so why not just play good removal and counters instead?

    I think Crackling Doom is maybe legacy playable somewhere but this isn't it

  5. #5

    Re: 5C Control


  6. #6
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: 5C Control

    First of all, thanks for the feedback. I realize this list is very raw and there is a limited availability of cards with the effects that the deck is looking for. I know it looks like a pile right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Very limited acceleration, 5 cmc4 cards - I really don't know about the 3rd Fiery Confluence, and zero draw engine. Also, Crackling Doom is kinda terrible. It's a bad Diabolic Edict with a shock attached.

    No Force of Will and no draw engine to speak of. You've got a lot of cmc3 sorceries, and a lot of cmc3 instants. Your only win condition I can see is Chandra.

    Look, I love me some 5 color control, but that list has a LOT of issues. Also a lot of mono-colored cards to be running Pillar of the Paruns.
    I didn't find room for FoW without a draw engine (First I had 3 of them in the deck). Right now, Chandra is my only proper draw engine. I could add 2 Jaces but they don't pressure the life total the way Chandra does with its draw, and Jace is also 4-cc..

    For draw engines, Cryptic Command and Mystic Confluence are the 2 cards that spring to mind but I don't think they are good enough. i would love to have a cheap draw engine here, but I don't see any cards in the card pool that facilitate this for this deck. Perhaps Leovold? Kess, Dissident Mage?

    My win conditions are all the cards that pressure life total + DRS/Chandra/Fiery Confluence.


    Manamorphose should make pillar of the paruns more reliable. Also, against Daze and other cheap tempo counters I can board in Guttural Response which is castable from Pillar of the Paruns.

    "Also, Crackling Doom is kinda terrible. It's a bad Diabolic Edict with a shock attached"
    What would you replace it with? I can also go for Terminate, but that doesn't give me any additional upside nor ways to deal with marit lage or TNN

    Also, how would you accelerate the deck?


    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    I like that you have a very clear idea: "I'm playing a control deck but I don't need any dedicated finishers because all my interactive elements have Lava Spike tacked on". Unfortunately this idea probably won't work in legacy:

    Undermine vs Counterspell
    Crackling Doom vs Diabolic Edict
    Blightning vs Hymn to Tourach

    You claim these cards have added "two for one" effects but a 'free' Lava Spike is not card advantage. It's not a good enough reason to be playing these cards. The difference between 2 and 3 mana is a lot in a format with the following:
    - Daze
    - Stifle
    - Wasteland
    - Thalia

    Not only do the 'fair' decks legacy beat you with the above cards, combo decks in general are too fast. Good luck trying to beat Show and Tell or ANT or whatever with Cancel and Mind Rot

    Aside from these format considerations the deck in general just seems to have many problems
    - Pillar of the Paruns can't cast your 5x 2RR spells and you only have 3 lands that produce red
    - You don't have anything to return with Kolaghans Command except for DRS
    - None of the modes on Atarkas Command make sense in this deck (the 'land into play' isn't great because you have no card draw to fuel it)
    - Despite the 'philosophy' of playing all "burn interaction" and no finishers you still apparently want 2x Chandra, so why not just play good removal and counters instead?

    I think Crackling Doom is maybe legacy playable somewhere but this isn't it
    What do you propose for acceleration? Atarka's Command is solely used to play a land+bolt.

    I do see Thalia+rishadan port + Wasteland becoming a problem. What's the best way to solve this? Chrome Mox?

  7. #7
    Land Destruction Enthusiast
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    Re: 5C Control

    I just think I'd cut pillar and the mediocre multicolored cards for more consistent spells and one less bad land. Also Atarka's Command seems better as Explore since none of Atarka's abilities really help much
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  8. #8
    bruizar
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    Re: 5C Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    I just think I'd cut pillar and the mediocre multicolored cards for more consistent spells and one less bad land. Also Atarka's Command seems better as Explore since none of Atarka's abilities really help much
    How about this?

    [Land 22]
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Badlands
    1 Bayou
    1 Tropical island
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Scalding Tarn
    3 Wasteland
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    [ Ramp & Selection 10]
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Explore
    3 Chrome Mox

    [Selection 4]
    4 Brainstorm

    [Discard 3]
    3 Thoughtseize

    [Offensive Discard 8]
    2 Collective Brutality
    3 Blightning
    3 Kolaghan's Command

    [Offensive Counters 6]
    3 Countersquall
    3 Undermine

    [Offensive Removal 2]
    2 Fiery Confluence

    [Planeswalker 2]
    2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

    [Free Counters 2]
    2 Force of Will



    Blue density is low. We can also go for daze or pyroblast as cheap protection against tempo.

  9. #9
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    Re: 5C Control

    Wouldn't Lingering Souls be really good here? Some changes to the converted costs and Dark Confidant seems viable as well, or Painful Truths. I also don't see Wasteland as helping you out at all. I think focusing on playing your spells is more important than a small tempo swing from Wasteland. I also don't see why Tribal Flames isn't a great card for this. It provides great reach and removal.
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  10. #10

    Re: 5C Control

    If you want to play 5c I have an idea for you. I was a bit bored with Legacy and it's established decks, so I tried something new for "casual" Legacy evenings.

    The deck list based on several Planeswalkers, Oath of Nissa, Veteran Explorer, Cabal Therapy, GSZ, Phyrexian Tower, many basics (that are awesome with Oath of Nissa) and some duals.
    I don't have the deck ready anymore, but I can write something down here if someone is interested.

    €dit: I forgot to mention Ensnaring Bridge

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