The goal of the deck is to win with pattern of rebirth or natural order (because I really like these cards) but with a backup plan of winning through beats. The creatures ideally do double duty here, tks for instance protects the combo with discard/is a body for pattern/can beat for 4. Pattern is an odd card so some iffy choices like ammit eternal/altar's reap/phyrexian tower are in there right now. Suggestions/thoughts welcome!
[// 18 Creature
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Progenitus
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Ohran Viper
1 eternal witness
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 troll ascetic
// 7 Enchantment
4 Pattern of Rebirth
3 Sylvan Library
// 22 Land
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Bayou
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 High Market
2 Windswept Heath
2 Ancient Tomb
// 13 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Natural Order
// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
SB: 1 Elderscale Wurm
SB: 1 Terastodon
// 4 Enchantment
SB: 4 Choke
// 4 Instant
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Fatal Push
// 3 Sorcery
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Natural Order
Last edited by kinda; 02-13-2018 at 08:21 PM.
Nice deck, I think Pattern of Rebirth is a fairly underrated card. Judging the list superficially only 2 things appear questionable to me. One the one hand your deck seems to be a bit of a glass canon as it lacks the means for a come back if your opponent manages to handle the combo. I know you have Library but maybe a 1of Eternal Witness that can be tutored with GSZ would make the deck more resilient and durable. Moreover, is Probe really superior to Thoughtseize in the maindeck? I understand that it makes Therapy very good and it should probably also alleviate consistency issues but on it's own it doesn't do too much.
Wouldn't something you can sacrifice after attaching Pattern be a better option? Like Sakura-Tribe Elder.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Ideally...but all the cards in bg that sac themselves are bad on their own to the best of my knowledge. With Steve for instance he doesn't do anything useful until you sac him at which point you hopefully just resolved pattern. The best I could find are varolz and ammit eternal as far as sac engine critters go. They both can be turned sideways too.
@Dice: Very tempting I will test.
this is why pattern is just a worse version of natural order for the most part. I would increase the # of NO and decrease the patterns. Pattern is also weaker because if the creature gets killed in response to casting then ur just fucked. That doesn't happen with NO (unless the rules changed). I've tried pattern decks and naturally you include NO. I was usually happier to see NO than patter which eventually made me drop pattern all together for a stronger win con alternative. For big green targets you can check my NO Eldrazi pos in my sig. Useful info will be in the primer.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
I don't see Sakura-Tribe Elder as bad at all...you're taking a 3 card combo (dude, Pattern, sac outlet) and turning it into a 2 card combo (dude that sacs themselves + Pattern.) Not only that, you're playing GSZ, so you can play 1x STE and fetch it. Or he can ramp you into GSZ-ing into a bigger threat/Eternal Witness, if the fair beats plan becomes necessary.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Not trying to be a dick here, but Pattern of Rebirth is not for Legacy. It is too fragile in the face of spotremoval, which the format is rife with. You don't want your opponents to turn their Lightning Bolt/Fatal Push/Swords to Plowshares into 1 mana 2-for-1's. Legacy is a too efficient format for that to be viable.
If you plan to with w/ a green 4 mana card you should either play Elves!, where Natural Order says "I win this turn", or Nic Fit, which just drops Siege Rhinos and turns those sideways as a win-con. Can't go wrong with that.
I was thinking that this is getting really close to Nic-Fit as well, without the fragile combo. I almost suggested Veteran Explorer, lol. I disagree slightly about it not being for Legacy though. I don't see why it couldn't be an option for a local meta-game, one that isn't as hostile. It's a fairly compact combo if all you need to dedicate to it is 4x Pattern and 6-8x creatures that combo with it (2 fatties and 4-6 sacrifice options.) I do agree that Natural Order is a much better combo option, I've even sideboarded that in Junk ages ago.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Back in the days. When I was young and Apocalypse just came out. I used to experiment a lot with Survival of the Fittest and Recurring nightmare when those cards were legal. One of my experiment was a deck without survival. I do not remember exactly, but it was super fun to play a true Rogue deck
These are the cards I remember after 15 years, probably missed with the numbers. It was working very similar to the current Nic Fit.
4 BoP
3 Wall of Blossoms
1 Spike Weaver
3 Spike feeder
3 Phyrexian Ghoul
3 Yavimaya elder
4 Academy rector
2 Spiritmonger
4 Duress
2 Recurring nightmare
2 Pernicious deed
3 Pattern of Rebirth
1 Pandemonium
3 Saprolling burst
1 Phyrexian tower
3 city of brass
3 Thran quarry and other lands.
I definitely had some removals like Swords to Plowshares / terror / vindicate just don't remember.
The deck used to stall until you can attack with a ghoul, sac some creatures preferably rector with pattern if possible so you can fetch what you need at the moment.
Pandemonium + Saprolling burst was an easy combo to establish, and you could use creatures to feed the ghoul.
Spiritmonger was the Emrakul back in the days. Shame he is not that good now. Yavimaya elder was amazing with dmg on stack. Spikes were all stars especially with recurring nightmare. You can probably figure it yourself.
Remember, No fetchlands
Good luck on your quest.
There are plusses and minuses for both I think. It's true that they can't kill the creature in response to NO but this is because you already sac'd it. So if your natural order runs into spell pierce or flusterstorm it's a 2 for 1...but with pattern it's just a 1 for 1. The discard and hexproof critters are my answer to the removal problem right now but not sure if it's enough yet. TNN and sylvan caryatid seem like the best pattern targets to me. NO obviously can't get eldrazi either and ruric thar/elderscale wurm aren't good enough md I think (though in some matches those two just read you win).
@ safety it's a good point I should probably have a 1 or 2 cc gsz target that sacs himself. Steve might be it but I'll run a search.
@matsu intesting list! Why not fetches?
I'll test this on Tuesday and see how it goes.
Went 2-1-1 tonight to prize! Beat miracles and burn, drew against another miracles, and lost to dredge. I played the list in the first post -1 ancient tomb -1 bayou +1 overgrown tomb +1 ghost quarter due to card availability. Not playing any gy hate was bad but otherwise I was happy with the deck...plus very fun! Gsz into eternal witness and library make the deck quite resilient.
However, I felt like the deck was top heavy and delver would be tough so I am proposing lowering the curve maindeck next week. Maybe this:
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Progenitus
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 eternal witness
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
3 death's shadow
4 Pattern of Rebirth
3 Sylvan Library
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 High Market
2 Windswept Heath
4 Cabal Therapy
4 gitaxian probe
2 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Berserk
SB:
SB: 1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
SB: 1 Elderscale Wurm
SB: 4 Choke
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Leyline of the void
SB: 3 Natural Order
Why TKS? Green creatures are very sinergic here (N.O. and GSZ).
I would add a Xenagos, God.
That + Emrakul is Instant win with PoR or Defense of the Hearth (which should be totally run here with some Forbidden Orchard)
I started off 2-1 tonight beating food chain and lands with a loss to dragon stompy. Round 4 I was on stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/231061107 .
I still think thought-knot seer is good but since I don't have ancient tombs yet I cut them and ran death's shadow + berserk this week (I don't have goyf either). TKS is sweet turn 2...not so much turn 4 though and I think I would slot them in for the thoughtseizes in the list below. Dragon stompy just seems like a bad matchup. I won game 1 by sac'ing a drs with a pattern attached to natural order to get progenitus and emrakul. Then next turn my library found me decay for his bridge. Game 2 though he had turn 1 and turn 3 goblin rabblemasters on the play. G3 I mulled and got blood moon'd. The stream for round 4 is in the link above.
@Poron: TKS/Death's shadow are good with the aggro plan and TKS protects himself so you can pattern. Also the only good green aggro creature really I think I could play is goyf but I don't have any. I would like to find room for a reclamation sage I think. Varolz is a sac outlet for pattern and can scavenge a death's shadow to become a 15/15 so he's a 1 of gsz target in the list. I do like defense of the heart! Might put some in the sb. Xenagos is interesting...but putting a pattern on a critter and then waiting for their end of turn to sac it to high market/phyrexian tower/varolz/decaying it gives emrakul pseudo haste (which is relevant vs jace)
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 death's shadow
1 Progenitus
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Sylvan Caryatid
1 eternal witness
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 Pattern of Rebirth
3 Sylvan Library
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Bayou
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 High Market
2 Windswept Heath
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
2 berserk
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Natural Order
2 abrupt decay
SB: 1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
SB: 1 Elderscale Wurm
SB: 1 Terastodon
SB: 4 Choke
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 carpet of flowers
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Natural Order
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
I saw your matches, yesterday.
It was entertaining, I think you should skip Death's Shadow and Overgrown Tomb.
You should try to keep a high life total.
Wall of blossoms might be good to accelerate your draws and have a look at diabolic intent/diabolic edict/innocent blood. Any token producing planeswalker will be useful Garruk relentless/ nissa voice of zendikar. Because you are on GB I will suggest Hymn to tourach instead of Thoughtseize.
Flip liliana is a nice spice to the deck
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