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Thread: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

  1. #161
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    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Ochran Assassin - we can use this, just attack with 1-2 exalted triggers and clear their side of the board. But as a 3 mana 1/1 it's probably too inefficient and unreliable and easily answered.

    Crackling Drake - this seems awesome, cantripping flying x/4 creature. If only we played more instants and red.

    Knight of Autumn - obvious great card, now we really need to consider if we play this over Qasali in the maindeck. I think at least a 1/1 split, if playing Meren.

    Card links are going to show up eventually, I'll use the cards tags already.

  2. #162

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    I agree that it's great to have maindeck answers for those cards. But actually, many other decks will also play these answers, which may reduce the popularity of those threats. I guess we can expect slightly more BUG decks, hard to say if 5% more or 300%, but probably BUG control or midrange gets better and with it there could be an increase in sweepers (a challenge for us). And more md answers to Vial.. I'm thinking Prelate gets better. We'll see.. Really hard to speculate.
    I don't think that the number of Jace or Tabernacle will go down a lot. Maybe (let's hope!) Eldrazi, if Bug finds more way to deal with them thx to Trophy (Eldrazi is probably the deck i feared most in a tournament, compared to how much it's widespread).
    Bug control has always been easy for me, yes they have sweepers but also a way slower clock than Mentor Miracle for example, and that's good for us. Really, don't think we should worry too much about that.

    @Other cards: the only one worth is obv Knight, a better version of Reclamation. I still want to use Qasali for exalted (too many times it has been perfect for killing jace, too many) and vs SFM->Jitte.

    edit: another really interesting card, for me more than others:

  3. #163
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    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Ah yeah, Lazav is a nice little tech creature. Great at copying Dreadnought. Any specific plans for him?

  4. #164

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    Ah yeah, Lazav is a nice little tech creature. Great at copying Dreadnought. Any specific plans for him?
    Just another way to get access again to 1x died, or in mid late a good way to have a cheap multi-use tool

  5. #165
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    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    It's beautiful to see three MOST players in GP Stockholm's legacy side event. And I'm not even playing.. ;)

  6. #166

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    It's beautiful to see three MOST players in GP Stockholm's legacy side event. And I'm not even playing.. ;)
    Really =) hope to read some reports!

  7. #167

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    I was one of those three playing the Legacy side event! The other guys was Cermak and a guy not from Stockholm (don't know him). We ended up next to each other and it was really fun to hear the guy next to me go: " I play forest, tap, play Aether Vial"

    I played two side events and I will try to post report and thoughts about the deck tomorrow if I can remember what happened :P

    The results:
    UB show and tell 2-1
    Deathshadow 1-2
    DnT 1-1-1

    Sneak and show 2-1
    DnT 0-2
    Tezzeret Control 1-1-1

    Deck list:
    1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
    3x Birds of Paradise
    1x Dryad Arbor
    1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1x Elvish Piper
    1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4x Fauna Shaman
    1x Glen Elendra Archmage
    1x Griselbrand
    1x Loyal Retainers
    1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    3x Mother of Runes
    2x Noble Hierarch
    1x Phage the Untouchable
    1x Qasali Pridemage
    1x Quirion Ranger
    1x Sanctum Prelate
    1x Scavenging Ooze
    1x Scryb Ranger
    1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
    1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3x Volrath's Shapeshifter

    1x Bayou
    1x Forest
    1x Island
    1x Plains
    2x Savannah
    3x Tropical Island
    7x Fetch

    2x Green Sun's Zenith
    4x Aether Vial
    2x Abrupt Decay
    3x Brainstorm
    1x Swords to Plowshares

    Side
    4x Force of Will
    1x Gilded Drake
    1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
    1x Pathrazer of Ulamog
    1x Peacekeeper
    1x Phyrexian Revoker
    1x Qasali Pridemage
    2x Surgical Extraction
    2x Swords to Plowshares
    1x Vampire Hexmage

  8. #168
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    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Cermak provided this summary of his events at the GP going 7-2 with a list that is very close to DnT:

    GP Sthlm side event 7-2

    -win DnT; Fauna shaman, shalai
    -win Stoneblade; mother, vial, choke
    -lost Grixis Control; my missplay, lost hope

    -win Deaths shadow; thalia, choke
    -win Helm; thalia, gaddock
    -win Storm; qasali pridemage (edit: hmm actually I think Sanctum Prelate was referred to here, probably my misunderstanding)

    -win ug cloudpost; wasteland
    -win Burn; jitte
    -lost to shardless

    Here is his super spicy list:

    4 Aether Vial
    1 Bayou
    1 Cataclysm
    1 Choke
    1 Dryad Arbor
    2 Fauna Shaman
    2 Flickerwisp
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Forest
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Gaea's Cradle
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    1 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    4 Mother of Runes
    2 Noble Hierarch
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    1 Palace Jailer
    1 Plains
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    3 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Sylvan Library
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    4 Wasteland
    4 Windswept Heath
    Last edited by pettdan; 09-18-2018 at 01:28 PM.

  9. #169

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    BOOM 4-0 to night winning all.

    2-0 Merfolk, fauna shaman
    2-0 Stoneblade+delver, Choke + talia
    2-0 blackout.
    2-1 Goblins, vial

    Spoiler

    Lands (19)
    1 Bayou
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Forest
    1 Gaea's Cradle
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    1 Plains
    3 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    4 Wasteland
    4 Windswept Heath

    Spells (12)
    4 Aether Vial
    1 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Sylvan Library
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Creatures (29)
    1 Dryad Arbor
    2 Fauna Shaman
    2 Flickerwisp
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    1 Mirran Crusader
    4 Mother of Runes
    2 Noble Hierarch
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    1 Palace Jailer
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

  10. #170
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    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Haven't posted here for way too long...mainly due to having exams.

    Sadly didn't make it to Stockholm. I did play at MKM Paris, was 6-1 but lost the last 2 rounds unfortunately. Don't remember all the details, I think I beat a pair of Grixis Control players, UB Show and Tell, Lands, DnT, BUG, ... and the losses were DnT, Grixis Control and ANT.
    Vs. DnT it was 1-1 with 9min on the clock. Was 4-0 so really wanted to win and played too quickly and made mistakes, game could have been won.
    Vs. Grixis Control I won the only game we both played magic, the other 2 I kept 2 lands and had one of the Hymn to Tourached causing me to miss my 2nd land drop for 5+ turns in both games.
    Vs. Storm I lost the die roll and got killed before able to interact in two games, winning the one where I survived to my 2nd turn and dropped Teeg....
    Same list as usual: http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/201...G9y0nMiknS1Q==

    Regarding the new cards, Knight of Autumn is great and will definitely be my MD Artifact/Enchantment hate of choice, not sure if I'll play a 2nd in the board or run a Qasali there.
    Assassin's Trophy is also great, mainly because it hits lands. Most likely a straight swap from Abrupt Decay to it.

    I'm still convinced all the Loyal Retainers etc. "combo" lines aren't worth it, you need 2 Fauna Shaman activations and you really shouldn't lose after activating Shaman twice anyway.

  11. #171

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Good to hear you again Demonic! Great result at the mkm, i totally understand your last games... i've seen the same things many times, and there are times where we simply can't win, happens

    Next weekend i'll have a big tournament here in Italy, so i'll bring Most after the good MTGO results. The Loyal/Iona slots are the only one that i'm unsure about, to be clear, and the games played online didn't really help me with this decision. Sometimes you have an active fauna and you can close the game pretty easily simply doing this simple trick, sometimes it's stuck in your hand, sometimes i just want to try more flexible slots (probably would move Second Leovold and Pontiff MD).

  12. #172

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Is Thief of Sanity any good or is it just another Hypnotic Specter? Probably worse than Specter against a lot of decks but I can't help but feel it might be a good card for us. Plaguecrafter also seems amazing. Nabs all those nasty combo decks that cheat creatures into play, has game against Delver, and can nab a Jace against Miracles.
    Last edited by Kanti; 09-25-2018 at 02:52 PM.

  13. #173
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    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Tajic, Legion's Edge is also an interesting card. Hmm, I read it again now, it just grants protection to other creatures so probably not worth it after all...

    Great to hear things are going relatively well for you, Demonic_Pact! Thanks for sharing! I think combo elements haven't been the best option for a long time, but that shouldn't stop us from testing them. Having an unfair element can be a great advantage, but it is more difficult (and, probably, worse) than just building a regular version.

    Kanti, I think Thief of Sanity is very interesting, it's a slight upgrade of previous similar cards - and I would love to play them - by giving selection between 3 cards and allowing you to play it even after the thief leaves play. I still think it probably is too weak, however Yurio (will add cardtag) was recently released and I think she may be good enough, perhaps, but probably requires building on.

  14. #174

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Report from yesterday, 125 people
    Same list, different side bc, you know, mtgo meta: https://deckstats.net/deck-17173287-...ff12a92c4.html
    Couldn't find a Saskia in the location so i've played at 60 cards

    T1 Grixis Control 2-0
    Can't remember much from these games, i know that he won the coin and go with sea-preordain, fetch go so i'll think about Show -> Prelate at 3
    Good move anyway, i've won one game thx to Griselbrand and another one with Atraxa

    T2 Omnitell 1-1
    I won the g1 because he didn't close the game in the first 2 turns, i was otp, a well-positioned queller closed the game
    g2 I've almost won, i can't remember if i've made a mistake or it was just incredible luck for my oppo, anyway i've played vendilion eot and i had lethal damages on table, put in the bottom a Wish-> topdeck Kozilek returns with the card of Vendilion at the last moment. Incredible

    T3 UW Miracles Rip 0-2
    Lost g1 with an activa Fauna after have drawn land-land-vial-land on a row.
    g2 i start with land vial land vial but he had Containment priest on t2 without cantrip, then humility.

    t4 Maverick 2-0
    No games here, it's one of our best mu, never felt in danger

    t5 Lands 2-1
    I lost the g1 after 30 minutes of war and calculations and turns under Tabernacle, can't wait to have Trophy here <3 But i manage to close g2 and g3 in few turns with hatebears (mvp Prelate obvs) and beatdown

    t6 Canadian 2-0
    g1 I've too many mana sources for his denial -> Atraxa
    g2 I have and hand with 3 land 3 vial and a bop. Keep and won many turns after easily

    t7 Mario Garbuio with Grixis Control 0-2
    List here: http://www.ovinotournament.com/ovino...cy-main-event/
    I refuse the split to try to gain the glory with Most, and obvs life punished me hard. He totally wrecked me having only perfect tourach and draws, i really wasn't able to do anything relevant. 4 K. Command in g1, 3 on g2 , just for saying one thing. Lovely


    General Thoughts and considerations after the tournament (and in general).

    1)I've talked and brainstormed with my teammates about the deck, and what i clearly feel is that we are too light on Business/Gas cards. Rallier is the only card that makes a direct advantage and i strongly believe that it's too few, and we can clearly see this against Miracle, Grixis control ecc. Moreover, i don't think it's something we can fix with just one card.

    2)Vial has been clearly good or really, really bad. I've lost 3 games drawing a mix of lands and vials in a row with an active Fauna, and i fear that's too much variance for my playstyle. So after more than one year i'll come back to test the deck without them.

    3)Revoker has too few targets now for a MD position

    4)Solution to point 1-2: 3 slots for a consistent plan that doesn't require Fauna
    -Voice of Resurgence: Really really good against Grixis, not so good against Miracle but a flexible card usefull against Tempo ecc. "Safest" choice
    -Nemesi: I mean, like, 3 of them. I'm not a fan of the 1x, because i've never tutored for her when i was testing and never felt the lack afterwards. But 3 of them is a different matter: very good against Eldrazi and Grixis (our worst MUs i think?), good against Miracle
    -2/3 SfM+jitte+Sofi: Another good option, but obvs sucks against Grixis and K.Command, so it's a no for me.
    -3 Nissa, Steward of Elements: When i tested her i was surprised by how versatile she was, and when it hits 3-4 Loyal counters he makes +1 permanent at turn.

    To begin, i'll start with these changes in my next MTGO leagues:
    -4 Vial
    -1 Revoker

    +1 Nh
    +3 Nemesi
    +1 Lazav/Nissa/Voice/Play at 60 cards

  15. #175
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    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Sweet report, thanks! I agree that we need to plan on how to beat Grixis Control. I keep looking at options but not testing much. 3 TNN is an interesting option.. I have mentioned Aluren before, it is difficult to build the deck around it but possible - it combines card advantage creatures with a combo win.. but much tougher to build. There's also Cermak's approach which is worth testing, Choke is a good card, and other interesting choices..

  16. #176

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    The point is that you don't want just 2-3 Aluren and some cards good with it, for me, you want to build an entire deck around it imho.

    @Choke: Obvs it's very good in sb, but i think that PW are better and more flexible cards overall

  17. #177

    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Thanks for the report Memories. Bad breaks against Grixis, K Command is really a brutal card. Forgot to say thanks to pettdan too for posting his last report with videos. Was painful watching you attack with that MoM against Grixis when you had Prelate at 3 up. I didn't even think you stood a chance that game, then things shifted all of a sudden, and then the MoM misplay. Happens brother.

    I've been playing this deck a whole bunch in Modern and have way more beef in it. 3 Tarmogoyfs, 3 Siege Rhino, 1 Bitterblossom in the main-deck more beef. It's due to not having MoM available, and not having GSZ or Brainstorm. I'm on 4 Vials, 4 Birds, 3 Hierachs. Legacy's card pool offers a whole other headache though. MoM is too good not to include, as she protects Fauna Shaman and allows us to lock some decks out g1 via Peacekeeper+MoM (Death's Shadow and Grixis, and a plethora of other decks have no out to this besides double removal which you can get around with Scryb Ranger). Still, I miss the beef I have in Modern. Chain Rhinos are no joke, and I really got the idea from the old Survival decks that ran x4 Goyf to just chain Goyfs. Running a deck full of silver bullets is nice, but you risk drawing the wrong bullet for the wrong match. There's a balance out there somewhere for sure. Good that you mention Ralliers CA. I run both Rallier and E Witness and search for them a lot more than I though I would. CA is no joke.

    Not sure I like cutting Vial. They are terrible topdecks, but Fauna+Vial out is ridiculous, and it doesn't get wiped off the field by a Terminus. Until Abrade gets more popular (it should be already) I will keep Vials in.

  18. #178

    M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    If i understand correctly Cermaks build, which he is very successful with currently, is like that. Not much toolbox but a bunch of good stuff ”beef”. In a way it looks more like maverick but not constrained by that archetypes do’s and donts


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  19. #179
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    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Actually I think it's more like MOST merged with DnT, like I've written. It does not have much beef I think but Thalia, StP and Wastelands. And a single KotR. But maybe he's updated it since then. Or well, I guess there is an argument to be made regarding Maverick as well, it's not farfetched as these decks overlap.

    Actually anyone interested can watch Cermak playing the first games from his playtesting stream from last Thursday:

    http://www.twitch.tv/stockholmlegacy...2037?sr=a&t=6s

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    Re: M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

    Alright, I'm gonna try and keep some structure in this post, otherwise it'll probably be a single very long paragraph of my ramblings that don't help anyone ^^ As always, just opinions. I'm not always right but I do like to think I have enough experience with the deck to be right the majority of the time ;)

    Vial:
    Based on 1000s of games with the deck I'm convinced that cutting the vials is wrong.

    But if you think I'm wrong and do want to cut the vials, surely you will run too low on mana sources if you try and squash something like 3 TNN and a Nissa into the deck instead? The deck usually runs 16 lands and 5 dorks plus 3-4 GSZ for Arbor and is very mana hungry...without Vials it'll look mostly like a Maverick list with too many colors and some odd card choices...but those decks tend to run the same amount of dorks and GSZ we do but play around 24 lands (20 without Wasteland) and often don't curve out beyond 3...so imo if you cut the Vials you have to add 2-3 mana sources which aren't better topdecks (assuming at least one of them is a land, exception being when you draw a dork with Fauna in play).
    Further more, you've probably all experienced hands without T1 plays in the deck - it's like Humans in Modern, it feels really bad, it's just worse in Legacy as a single Wasteland or Daze will also prevent your T2 play and perhaps you don't even have the land to get back up to 2 mana and you just lose. Removing your best 4 turn 1 plays will just make this happen a lot more often. In some games in Legacy, not playing on T0 is a problem and you just die. Not playing on T1 either is just way too slow for the format.

    Voice:
    Played it quite a long time ago, for a while actually. Felt decent, not amazing but never really bad either. But eventually made way due to deckspace constraints. Couldn't imagine ever tutoring for it. I know you're considering it to make your gameplan better when you don't have Fauna...I just didn't think it was powerful enough at doing that. But meta changes all the time so maybe it's better now...

    Revoker:
    I can see cutting this. Probably will try it. With DRS gone it might really be too low on targets.

    Nemesis:
    Can see plenty of situations where I want to and often have tutored for it...block a big thing, fog equipment like Jitte or Batterskull, kill Planeswalkers, race, avoid Maze of Ith, etc...also incredible with Scryb Ranger as it'll do double duty on attack and block - which is like having 2 TNNs and that's always busted...

    Consistency and Toolboxness:
    If you want a more consistent deck and less toolboxy deck, just play Maverick or D&T...you lose so much Fauna Shaman power once you start trimming the toolbox down. The right way to adress the toolbox and consistency problems imo is to run Brainstorm and be very careful in what you actually put in your deck ;)
    Sure, you'll gain percentages elsewhere by playing something like 4x Thalia and I'm definitely not saying this deck is better. I'm pretty sure I'd win more playing D&T instead, but this is just way more fun.
    Imo a shell with Wasteland+Thalia+SfM package is a different deck. Cermak's build is a modified D&T list rather than a version of MOST. Figuring out whether it's better or worse than "regular" D&T or D&T with a couple of extra silver bullets to Recruiter of the Guard for is something for a different thread.

    Silver Bullets?
    The silver bullets in the wrong matchups thing is important. You obviously have to consider this when building the deck, how bad is this card in the wrong matchup? And find ways to make use of those silver bullets when you draw them in the "wrong" matchup...I'm trying to figure out off the top of my head what the most narrow cards in my MD are and it's probably Gaddock Teeg or Phyrexian Revoker (next up are Qasali Pridemage, Meddling Mage and Orzhov Pontiff)...
    Revoker might be too narrow and I am considering cutting it.
    Teeg has matchups where it blanks and is just a 2/2 for 2. But very often it does something at least (like turn off your own GSZs, that's kinda bad)...It's very important in some matchups and even in the others usually turns of something from their deck...tutored for quite a lot but the floor is very low.
    Pridemage is still quite versatile and hits a lot of things in a lot of matchups. Plus it's super important in some matchups and often tutored for. Worst case it's a 2/2 Exalted for 2 which isn't that bad.
    Meddling Mage is an interesting one. Imo if you have a good understanding of all the other legacy decks and an especially good comprehension of gamestates you will always find value in this card. It doesn't have to turn off anything they have, it has to turn off the thing you lose to. That said, I still board it out a decent amount of times but wouldn't say it's too narrow by any means.
    Orzhov Pontiff is so good some of my (very skilled) D&T friends starting splashing black for it in their decks. Has matchups where it blanks and the floor is super low but the ceiling is sooooo high. Definitely very high difference between floor and ceiling on this card but wouldn't consider it narrow as it's good in so many matchups.

    Combo creatures:
    Volrath Shapeshifter, Loyal Retainers, Arcane Artisan, I've even seen Elvish Piper...
    So when are these good? When you untap with Fauna Shaman, pass, activate it, untap and activate it again. Now you have an Iona/Griselbrand/Emrakul/Elesh Norn.
    So for this to be worth doing, you have to be in a game where you survive to turn 4, have drawn a Fauna Shaman, have it not die for 2 turns, and it to be a game where you wouldn't have won with 2 Fauna Shaman activations if you didn't have this combo in the deck.
    So your opponent isn't playing combo, wasn't able to kill your 2/2 for 2 turns and is playing a deck where you wouldn't have won after 2 Fauna Shaman activations. That's a very, very narrow definition of a matchup. On the downside, you have these dead draws in your deck now and have less slots for your toolbox. I really don't see it.

    Other stuff:
    Try Shalai, it's really good. It's also really good against Grixis :)
    Tajic might be fine, but nothing I'd consider adding red for.
    Eternal Witness feels too clunky whenever I don't have a Vial in play to use with it. Rallier is fine for CA because you don't lose tempo...I believe Meren is fine too because it dodges a lot of removal, its body is a lot more relevant and it's just so much card advantage...plus can turn into tempo also if a lot of your stuff dies...
    MD Jailer is a thing I want to try as well. But I'm scared of overloading the 4drop slot and Atraxa and Shalai are both amazing...

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