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Thread: Legacy Lantern

  1. #1

    Legacy Lantern

    So, this will probably never be as powerful as the modern deck given that Brainstorm and Dig Through Time are everywhere, but I still wanted to see how far Lantern control can be converted to legacy. Here's my take on it. Maybe you guys want to give your take on it, and perhaps provide your own lists as many variations are possible.


    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Island
    1 Academy Ruins

    3 Mox Opal
    4 Lantern of Insight
    4 Codex Shredder
    4 Ghoulcallerís Bell
    4 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Senseiís Divining Top
    3 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Field of Dreams
    3 Counterbalance
    3 Punishing Fire
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Spell Snare



    - Counterbalance is there to serve as a surrogate Chalice of the Void for one. Since you can't run Chalice of the Void in this deck, Counterbalance is the next best alternative given the density of one drops and the selection between Sensei's Divining Top, Ghoulcaller's Bell and Codex Shredder.
    - This deck should have a decent matchup against miracles because Lantern of Insight can shuffle away the revealed miracle card

    The rest is self explanatory I think.

    Known issues with my list:
    - Jace costs 4 mana, that's a lot. I can dig for lands via milling, but 4 is still a stretch. But you can't play this deck and not use Jace I think.
    - Chalice of the Void hurts
    - Engineered Explosives is a nightmare. Need more needles in the side?
    Last edited by bruizar; 08-23-2015 at 08:35 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    4 mana is a lot, but zur's weirding is effectively two of yours cards in one.

  3. #3

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    1) Mill boost DDT, play it and try to get a plan to beat it
    2) Omnitell looks like a disaster, you have some rebs but DDT + BS + a average turn 4 kill is pretty bad, maybe discard work better than countermagic here?
    3) SDT is insane against you, you need a good plan against it (imho 2 needles are not enough)
    4) Get some artifact hate in your SB, given that null rod is played and is autoloss
    5) Why no Transmute artifact, Ancient tomb, tezzeret AoB (way better than JTMS imho), and i guess that thopters may work too and enlightned tutor should be tested
    6) Are you able to deal with BG decks? Decay seems problematic in delver shells
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  4. #4
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I think Liliana would be really strong. I've debated lantern in a pox shell because px loses to a lot of topdecks. Lantern fixes that. I don't think you should go for pox but Liliana seems strong. I also like thoughtseize here, it seems like the best cheap disruption without force available. Do you feel that you can afford to play punishing fire? Its mana intensive and you play few lands. I personally would explore liliana over that. Pyroclasm seems strong in here too.

    Edit: obviously only if you feel comfortable splashing black. By the way, what are the trops for? Sideboard (yet to be determined?)
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  5. #5
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I think predict would have a home here, as would thoughtscour to mill away unwanted cards for you or the opponent.
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  6. #6

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    @MR Safety:
    I initially had black in the list but I really wanted Punishing Fire and Field of Dreams. Perhaps Blue/Black/Green is still a better route for Abrupt Decay, Liliana of the Veil and Thoughtseize though.

    The green splash is still sort of undecided but its for the sideboard. At least Ancient Grudge should be in the side to combat chalice of the void among other things.



    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    1) Mill boost DDT, play it and try to get a plan to beat it
    Will try

    2) Omnitell looks like a disaster, you have some rebs but DDT + BS + a average turn 4 kill is pretty bad, maybe discard work better than countermagic here?
    Proactive discard is better indeed. That would mean I'd have to give up punishing fire and probably trade them for abrupt decays. My plan was to sideboard at least 3 extra rebs for the omnitell match up. I'm willing to sideboard more even as the meta is very blue.

    3) SDT is insane against you, you need a good plan against it (imho 2 needles are not enough)
    3 needles?

    4) Get some artifact hate in your SB, given that null rod is played and is autoloss
    Ancient Grudge should be in the side. Perhaps nature's claim or krosan grip to deal with random sylvan libraries / counterbalance too

    5) Why no Transmute artifact, Ancient tomb, tezzeret AoB (way better than JTMS imho), and i guess that thopters may work too and enlightned tutor should be tested
    The converted manacost of the artifacts is really low, and there is enough redundancy in the deck I think. I considered Transmute and Thopter Foundry but decided I'd rather use the space for Counterbalance. Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors I also considered, but if I want to land Counterbalance, it's not that great and Ancient Tomb is a liability against delver decks that use bolts. It may still be correct though, I was really tempted to run it. Not sure about Tezz vs Jace. Some modern lists play Tezz but Jace is banned there. Jace does exactly what the deck wants to do though. Needs to be tested.

    [/QUOTE]6) Are you able to deal with BG decks? Decay seems problematic in delver shells[/QUOTE]
    I think sideboard Spellskite would be desirable for those match ups. Not sure yet.

    --

    I think a BUG list and a RUG list look most viable to me. I'm not sure what an UW list could be besides Swords to Plowshares and Rest in Piece, but I'm open for suggestions.

  7. #7

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Here's a black version

    Pyxis of Pandemonium might be much more relevant for the legacy format so Ghoulcaller's Bell might need to get replaced. This would help against Dig Through Time, Snapcaster Mage and Life from the Loam

    Another route, and this may well be wrong, is to disrupt lands drawn instead of spells, since there are fewer lands than spells in most decks.


    The idea here is to use Encroach to make the opponent's keep shaky, and use a subsequent Wasteland, Sinkhole or Smallpox to clear him of mana. Then proceed to topdeck mode with Lanterns. This will obviously be very bad against RG lands, but it might work against other decks.
    Last edited by bruizar; 08-24-2015 at 09:22 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I think it's a bit of a misnomer, and it should really be called Ensnaring Bridge control. The goal is to blank most of the opponent's deck with some bomb permanent, and then clip the rest with the lantern + millstone approach. I'd wonder about a package like:


    Peacekeeper
    Ensnaring Bridge

    Trinisphere
    Ethersworn Cannonist

    Enlightened Tutor
    Lantern of Insight


    A really silly approach would be some kind of Psychic Surgery + Soldier of Fortune game plan.

  9. #9

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Text
    I've also been thinking about the white blue options and I think maindeck Meddling Mage is really strong as it gives you a way to stop Brainstorm game one, as well as a threat revealed by Lantern, or Show and Tell. Sideboard you get access to Rest in Peace and if needed you can side in Swords to Plowshares.

  10. #10
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I like where you're going with Pyxis of Pandemonium, and the Psychic Surgery mention is cool too. Exiling is definitely better in Legacy than just mill. If there's a decent cheap Ingest card in BFZ, it might fit here.

    I've always liked the cards Solfatara/Turf Wound/Moonhold and wished there was some way that this red tempo could be playable. The Encroach/Sinkhole idea plays in that space and my inner Johnny loves it.

  11. #11

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    You could also go Mono-black for a heavy 8-Rack theme, with Surgicals, Extirpates, Murderous Cuts and others.

  12. #12

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I've also been thinking about the white blue options and I think maindeck Meddling Mage is really strong as it gives you a way to stop Brainstorm game one, as well as a threat revealed by Lantern, or Show and Tell. Sideboard you get access to Rest in Peace and if needed you can side in Swords to Plowshares.
    The 'information leverage' is certainly intriguing. There are some decent 'name a card' cards like Meddling Mage,Cabal Therapy,Runed Halo,Predict,Phyrexian Revoker,and Pithing Needle.

  13. #13

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    A few more cards I want to mention (Almost certainly subpar but this is exploration phase).

    Ancient Stirrings - used in the modern list
    Ghirapur Aether Grid - used in the modern list
    Slag Fiend - can grow very big, especially but I like this more in a baubles type list
    Goblin Welder - Good sideboard card against Krosan Grips and such
    Grim Lavamancer or Cursed Scroll - Mops up utility creatures


    I like the idea of an UBW list combining discard and meddling mage. I wish we had fodder for Cabal Therapy. Running Mishra's Factory / Inkmoth Nexus might be a little too much trouble to activate it.
    Last edited by bruizar; 08-25-2015 at 08:30 AM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    It looks to me like Sensei's Divining Top would be hard for this deck to deal with.

    The rest is self explanatory I think.
    This is not the case. I am intrigued by this pile, but I have no experience with Modern. Can you explain it?
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  15. #15

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    The general idea of modern lantern is to get a lantern (or here field of dreams) in play and a pyxis of pandemonium(ghoul callers bell) or codex shredder in play to fateseal your opponents turns early. Ensnaring bridge is there to survive while you try to strip/outlive the opponents threats. You try to extablish perfect information with probes and extractions, because you work from perfect information this is how you can lock someone out with... A pile of crap essentially.

    Here is a recent modern video piloted by ali aintrazi:
    http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/v/12210323?t=5h39m33s

    Here is an article by him:
    http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12768

    --

    Btw, The more i thought of the encroach/land destruction plan for the legacy version, the more i like it. Giving your opponent zero mana should give you game against every deck.

  16. #16

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    It looks to me like Sensei's Divining Top would be hard for this deck to deal with....
    Pithing Needles and Revokers are decent against it. The whole 'cantrip cartel' is also a big challenge though.

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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    It looks to me like Sensei's Divining Top would be hard for this deck to deal with.

    This is not the case. I am intrigued by this pile, but I have no experience with Modern. Can you explain it?
    You play Ensnaring Bridge to hide behind and Lantern to see the opponents top card. Then mill anything that can get past bridge with Bell/Shredder.
    See it in action here - http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/v/12210323?t=5h39m33s
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  18. #18

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Here's a meddling mage list. It has the most redundancy of any of the lists because peacekeeper serves as ensnaring bridge 5/7, field of dreams serves as lantern 5-6, and you have 8 mill effects. Meddling mage and thoughtseize are there to address early threats. Council's judgment over detention sphere because you can get council's judgment back with codex shredder. Sheltered valley is an important land because it helps you stabilize and gives you 1 or 2 more turns against burn.

    3 Underground Sea
    3 Tundra
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 flooded Strand
    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Sheltered Valley
    2 other lands

    3 Mox Opal

    4 Meddling Mage
    3 Peacekeeper
    1 Council's Judgment
    4 thoughtseize

    4 Lantern of Insight
    2 Field of Dreams
    4 Codex Shredder
    4 Pyxis of Pandemonium

    4 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Senseiís Divining Top
    3 Gitaxian Probe

  19. #19
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    the immediate problem i see with Legacy Lantern is Chalice of the Void. In modern, it is not really played maindeck and is more of a niche sideboard card that comes up every so often in a few different decks. That said, there is a good chunk of legacy decks that play it main and on turn 1 rather commonly--this deck has really no way to get around it. All of it's lock pieces are 1 CMC and a turn 1 Chalice is game over right away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    To be fair, you're supposed to build a sizable pyre underneath it and light it with an arrow from afar.

  20. #20

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by Redkid43 View Post
    the immediate problem i see with Legacy Lantern is Chalice of the Void. In modern, it is not really played maindeck and is more of a niche sideboard card that comes up every so often in a few different decks. That said, there is a good chunk of legacy decks that play it main and on turn 1 rather commonly--this deck has really no way to get around it. All of it's lock pieces are 1 CMC and a turn 1 Chalice is game over right away.
    I wouldn't use Chalice as a reason to ever discount a deck in any format.

    The decks that play Chalice are, by definition, Tier 2 and fringe decks that are highly inconsistent. You really don't have to worry about matching up vs. Chalice decks at the top tables in any Legacy tournament. This is coming from a person who only ever plays Chalice decks in Legacy.

    The real reason something like this might not be viable is simply the speed of the Delver decks and the presence of Sensei's Divining Top.

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