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Thread: Domain Zoo!

  1. #1
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    Domain Zoo!

    Greetings fellow sourcers!

    I have been experimenting with various Tribal Flames decks since the Treasure Cruise Era and have found the 5 damage sorcery to be quite excellent at closing out games against both Aggro and Control decks. Tribal Flames is a criminally underrated card that scares a lot of brewers from experimenting with it. Some of the concerns surrounding the card tend to be about the ''greedy'' manabase required to play it or the price tag associated with the acquisition of the lands (especially since 5c configurations are so volatile). I have been playing and brewing Legacy decks for a long time now (2001?) and I have accumulated a good amount of cardboard over the years that allowed me to play all sorts of fantastic decks. Some of my all-time favorite brews have been 4c decks involving Deathrite Shaman so I am no stranger to greedy manabases. The development of a viable Legacy TF deck has been a pet project of mine over the last 6 months and I am ready to share some of my discoveries.

    Why play TF?

    TF offers massive reach and removal potential to any deck that wishes to win a game through fast creatures and/or midrange bombs. TF usually supplements a 4 Bolt suite for a total of 8 burn spells. TF is simply the bigger version of Bolt that will clear the way from most threats Bolt alone cannot handle (Goyf, Gurmag, Stalker, TKS, Smasher). This allows you to reliably switch between the aggro and control role in any aggro matchup. TF's massive reach is also enough to race most situations that appear dire such as an early TNN, a clogged Czech Pile board, a late Griselbrand, the menace of an impending Price of Progress... I have commonly won games by swinging once against a control deck that had fetched a few times and finished the last 10-13 points of life in two turns with burn reach alone.

    The weaknesses...

    Blood Moon and the lack of Wastelands are this deck's biggest weaknesses. As with most Delver decks, a Blood Moon at any stage usually spells disaster. Lucky for us, we have access to some SB tools to deal with Moon pretty efficiently when we have to play a long game against a UWr deck or a Grixis/Czech control deck. Again, as with most Delver decks, Wasteland can be troublesome. Given our unusually high colored land count it is uncommon to become land screwed by 1-2 Wastelands. However, it is more common to be color screwed by a few Wastelands so fetching with this deck can be challenging and requires careful planning. Not having Wastelands of our own makes the deck more resilient to opposing Wasteland decks by virtue of playing more colored lands instead. This lack of nonbasic hate makes the deck vulnerable to degenerate nonbasic land interactions such as anything involving Dark Depths, Punishing Grove, Cavern of Souls, and even Boseiju. Price of Progress can be troublesome but is usually matched by TF in terms of damage exchange. A good chunk of the SB slots are dedicated to mitigating those weaknesses.

    Current List:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Tribal Flames
    2 Thoughtseize
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    1 Sylvan Library

    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Tundra
    1 Badlands
    1 Taiga

    1 Containment Priest
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Submerge
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Bitterblossom
    1 Pithing Needle

    The core:

    Tribal Flames and Lightning Bolt are central to the aggro-control strategy because they provide versatile removal and unparalleled reach.

    Deathrite Shaman, Brainstorm, and Ponder are all necessary for this deck to operate smoothly on so many colors.

    Delver, Force, and Daze are easy inclusions given the cantrip and burn suite.

    Tarmogoyf is an excellent threat overall. Fast and efficient with a flexible cost. Goyf is arguably better than Gurmag Angler in this deck when green is favored to black. Playing 4 TF means that you have many outs to Angler. However, 5 damage will not deal with opposing 5/6 Goyfs so having Goyfs of our own is a good way to gain time for other threats to close the game out. I play 2-4 copies depending on my dedication to black/green.

    Gurmag Angler is reliable in this deck but can be a bit slow/off-color. Multiples are clunky but the first copy is nearly always welcomed. I wouldn't play Angler alongside Nimble Mongoose...

    Nimble Mongoose is the latest addition to the deck mainly to combat the various control decks that are common in the format. An obvious competitor to Angler but a great threat when coupled with plenty of relevant disruption.

    Since this Delver deck benefits from making 3-4 land drops, it can afford to play more threats at the top of the curve:

    True-Name Nemesis is what this deck wants to be doing lategame or as a last resort. TNN is notorious for stealing games and digging Delver decks out of huge holes when games drag for too long. Aside from Delver/DRS/Burn reach, TNN is the most reliable way to push damage through a dire situation (including opposing TNN). Because of the presence of Equipment aggro decks, huge vanilla creatures, and various grindy control decks, TNN is an essential component of the mid and late game of any aggro-burn strategy. Having access to a few copies pre-board is a huge boon.

    Snapcaster Mage is a good versatile choice here because of so many quality targets. If you thought Bolt Snap Bolt was a great play, wait until you close out a game with TF Snap TF... Snapcaster is also a happy medium between threat, disruption, and card advantage that any true aggro-control deck is more than happy to take advantage of. Snap is mostly burn on a stick or cantrip on a stick and will double up in versatility in many matchups after sideboard, especially against Combo decks. Snap can feel underwhelming when mana is limited and you find yourself with no better options than to use it as an expensive cantrip for suitable threats or disruption, or wait for Snap to have a good target. Bottom line is that Snap is usually burn or cantrip on a stick... Anywhere between 0-2 copies is enough.

    How can you play 5c without Leovold? We all know how good Leo is so I'd rather explain how he is not always good. The effect of Leo is amazing, his body is not. A Legendary 3/3 for UBG is underwhelming for this type of aggressive deck. Sometimes your first 3 lands end up lacking green or black making Leo uncastable on curve. Drawing multiples can be clunky, especially versus Karakas. Leo mainly competes with Snapcaster so 0-1 copy is reasonable.


    Cards that didn't make the cut:

    Wild Nacatl offers great aggressive openers when played in multiples or coupled with DRS or Delver. The crippling drawback of Nacatl is that it requires white mana early and/or a Plateau for a Daze opener if it is to swing for 3 damage. With proper (safe) mana development, Nacatl usually swings for 2 and can take a long time to reach 3/3. Nacatl is outclassed by Goyf in this deck.

    Spell Pierce used to be in the Thoughtseize slot but proved too ineffective against combo decks. TS also pairs nicely with Snapcaster and Leovold and offers much needed proactive and varied disruption. Without Wasteland support, Spell Pierce eventualy fell to the wayside.‎ For those playing 3+ Wastelands and a low black commitment, Pierce is a fine option over Thoughtseize.

    Wasteland is great for our worst matchup (Depths) but making a colorless land drop early can prevent the deck from unfolding optimaly. It is crucial for this deck to have access to 4c and will benefit from Tundra when casting TF therefore making colored land drops preferable.

    Sideboard options:

    Of course the options are limitless when playing 5c so I will simply give a small resume of the cards I find the most relevant.

    -Containment Priest offers an additional lock piece against SnT, Elves and Reanimator decks. I preffer Priest to a 3rd Surgical.

    -Surgical Extractions are necessary to stop Waste-Loam and PFire aside from the obvious T0 GY hate required to beat reanimation strategies.

    -Flusterstorm and Pyroblast need no explanation..

    -Diabolic Edict, Dead // Gone, Submerge effects are important against Marrit Lage if we want to have a chance against Lands and Turbo Depths.

    Abrupt Decays act mainly as Artifact/Enchantment removal for Blood Moon, B2B, Chalice, Equipments, even RiP and Counterbalance. Decay also acts as additional removal for aggro decks and will usually destroy the few creatures that TF won't be able to burn like big Goyfs and KotR.

    Golgari Charm is a great filler card that plays an important role in a few Matchups. The main use for Charm is as a -1/-1 sweeper against DnT, Elves, TES/Belcher, heavy TNN decks, and as a 3rd Blood Moon answer.

    KCommand is my 3rd Artifact destruction spell and lone Batterskull answer. It is a bit expensive compared to Grudge but will offer some grinding power against Czech Pile, Stoneblade, and every BUG deck out there. Both Command and Grudge are suitable.

    Sylvan Library is a must against any control and midrange deck. Just like Zoo, this deck will have no issue abusing Library when shifting between a control and aggro role. Library is also mainboard material.

    Bitterblossom is one of the most powerful card you could play against passive control decks.

    Pithing Needle is a concession to our worst matchups because of the lack of Wasteland. Needle is the most effective way to turn off nonbasic land abilities that need to be interacted with such as Stage-Depths and recurring Wastelands.

    Sideboard Map!

    Aggro:

    Grixis Delver
    -2 FoW -2 TS -1 Library
    +2 Pyro +2 Decay +1 Charm

    UR Delver/Burn
    -2 FoW -2 TS -1 Library -1 Taiga
    +2 Fluster +2 Pyro +2 Decay

    BUG Delver
    -4 FoW -2 TS
    +2 Submerge +2 Decay +2 Fluster

    DnT
    -4 FoW -2 TS
    +2 Decay +1 Charm +1 Grudge +1 Needle +1 Blossom

    Eldrazi
    -2 TS -1 Library
    +2 Decay +1 Grudge

    Moon Stompy
    -2 TS -4 TF
    +2 Decay +1 Charm +1 Grudge +1 Blossom +1 Needle

    Maverick/Deathblade/Bant
    -4 FoW -2 TS -1 Daze
    +2 Submerge/Pyro +2 Decay +1 Charm +1 Grudge
    +1 Needle/Blossom

    Aluren
    -4 TF -1 Tundra
    +2 Pyro +1 Charm +1 Needle +1 Blossom

    Control:

    Miracle
    -4 Bolt -4 TF -1 Tundra
    +2 Fluster +2 Pyro +2 Decay +1 Charm +1 Blossom*
    +1 Needle

    Czech Pile
    -3 FoW -2 TS -1 Taiga
    +2 Fluster +2 Pyro +1 Charm +1 Blossom

    Lands
    -4 Bolt -4 TF -2 TS
    +2 Surgical +2 Submerge +2 Fluster +2 Decay +1 Grudge +1 Needle

    4c Loam
    -2 TS -4 TF -2 FoW
    +2 Surgical +2 Submerge +2 Decay +1 Grudge +1 Needle

    Combo:

    Storm
    -2 TNN -4 TF -1 Tundra
    +2 Surgical +2 Fluster +2 Pyro +1 Charm

    SnT
    -4 Bolt -4 TF -2 TNN -1 Tropical
    +1 Priest +2 Surgical +2 Fluster +2 Pyro +2 Decay*
    +1 Charm +1 Needle

    Turbo Depths
    -4 Bolt -4 TF -1 Tundra
    +2 Submerge +2 Fluster +2 Decay +1 Charm +1 Blossom +1 Needle

    ***BR/UB Reanimator
    -4 Bolt -4 TF
    +1 Priest +2 Surgical +2 Fluster‎*
    +2 Submerge/Pyro/Decay

    Elves‎
    -2 TNN -2 TS -1 Library -1 Taiga
    +2 Submerge +2 Fluster +1 Charm +1 Priest‎

    Dredge
    -4 TF -2 TS -1 Taiga
    +1 Priest +2 Surgical +2 Fluster +2 Decay/Pyro

    Thank you for reading!

    Updates and data to come...
    Last edited by Qweerios; 04-04-2018 at 12:27 PM. Reason: Tags
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  2. #2
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Recent results based on 20-30 players events (weeklies and monthlies):

    2 Snap/2 TNN/2 Leo/ 2 Gurmag/2 Pierce
    18 Lands (10 Fetch, 2 USea, 2 Trop)

    2-0 Punishing Maverick (Depths)
    2-1 Ravager Mud
    2-1 OmniShow
    2-1 UW Stoneblade

    -Conclusion: No Pierce without Wasteland
    ‎-Change: -2 Pierce +2 Thoughtseize

    2-0 Punishing Zoo
    2-0 DnT
    2-1 UW Stoneblade
    2-0 Czech Pile (with Dack Fayden)

    2-0 UB Reanimator
    0-2 Steel Stompy
    1-2 Maverick
    2-0 TES

    -Conclusion: 2 Leo and 2 Gurmag are clunky. Not enough fast creatures for aggressive matchups.
    ‎-Change: -1 Leo -1 Gurmag +2 Goyf

    2-0 The Gate
    2-0 Esper Delver
    2-1 MUD
    1-2 Miracle

    2-0 DeathBant
    2-0 Deadguy Ale
    0-2 Miracles
    2-0 Shardless BUG

    -Conclusion: The deck is hard to play on curve when playing both green and black threats (especially vs. Wasteland). I need to get an edge against Snapcaster+removal decks...
    -Change: I take a break from TF to go back to 4c Delver and develop the GSZ/Mongoose/Goyf/Leo configuration to deal with Czech, Miracle, Grixis/BUG Ctrl. I miss Wasteland...

    Experimental TF deck with Wastelands. Back on Pierce, and cut Snaps and Leo.
    2 Goyf/2 Gurmag/2 Pierce/3 Waste/17 Land (1 Trop)

    2-0 Big Red
    2-1 Punishing Jund
    2-0 UR Delver
    1-2 Czech Pile
    Top4
    0-2 BR Reanimator

    -Conclusion: I forgot 2 Gurmag was clunky in this deck. Wastelands are definitely possible but not where I want to be with TF.
    -Change: I would play this again with 4 Goyf instead of the Goyf/Angler split and switch the 2nd USea for a 2nd Trop if I were to play in a Aggro and Combo heavy meta with few dedicated control decks.

    I tried incorporating my Mongoose/GSZ configuration:
    2 TNN/2 Mongoose/2 Goyf/1 Leo/1 GSZ/1 Library/17 Land

    2-0 High Tide
    2-0 DnT
    2-1 Sneak n Show
    2-0 UR Delver
    Playtest 3-1 Team America

    2-0 Punishing Maverick
    0-2 Nahiri Miracles
    2-0 BR Reanimator
    2-1 4c Loam

    0-2 Lands
    2-0 Miracles
    0-2 UW Pox
    1-2 Miracles

    -Conclusion: The Mongoose/GSZ config is better in TF than 4c and focused the deck on green rather than both black and green. The threat configuration works with the manabase and adding Library to the main is excellent. Mongoose isn't high impact enough against Miracles and Czech Pile and really suffers in other matchups.
    -Change: Lose the GSZ/Mongoose package in favor of Snapcasters and more threats.

    4 Goyf/2 Snap/1 Library/17 Land

    2-0 Lands
    2-0 Esper Mentor
    2-1 Jund
    1-2 Aluren
    2-0 Grixis Delver

    1-2 Dragon Stompy
    2-0 Punishing Dack
    2-0 Punishing Dack
    2-1 BUGw Aluren

    1-2 Grixis Delver
    2-0 Pox
    2-0 The Gate
    0-2 Elves

    -Conclusion: I missed the 18th land against Grixis and Elves are back in my meta so I will re-include Leo. Red Stompy requires additional answers so I will test Spell Pierce > Flusterstorm. Adding a 3rd black source will allow a few SB upgrades too. Also testing without TNN altogether.
    -Change: -2 TNN -1 Library +1 Angler +1 Leo +1 USea SB: -2 Fluster -2 Submerge -1 Grudge -1 Blossom +2 Pierce +2 Edict +1 KCommand +1 Library
    Last edited by Qweerios; 04-15-2018 at 04:20 PM.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
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    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  3. #3

    Re: Domain Zoo!

    I mostly lurk, but I like the lists you post. I tried out your waterfalls list on Cockatrice in 2012--13 (right when people were wondering whether Noble Hierarch or Deathrite Shaman was better) and had a lot of fun. This deck looks cool too! I like zoo decks with lots of colors. Good luck with it.

  4. #4
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    interesting. I enjoy sligh burn strategies. I'm not sure of TF is better than price of progress, but it's a different shell and your spell actually hits opposing dudes which is
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  5. #5

    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Daze and tribal flames seems awkward as you need 3 lands to optimise flames. I would consider cutting 2-4 daze as you functionally have 7 3 drops. Sorry 9 with snap *.

  6. #6
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    I was literally brewing Tribal Delver in my head last night after seeing the slight rebirth of the modern tribal zoo decks w/Bloodbraid.

    Awesome deck @qweerios.

  7. #7
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    Daze and tribal flames seems awkward as you need 3 lands to optimise flames. I would consider cutting 2-4 daze as you functionally have 7 3 drops. Sorry 9 with snap *.
    Daze is actually great in this deck. The deck comes out fast and hard like any Delver deck and countering spells for free is pretty good to say the least. TF is a 2 mana burn spell. As with most burn spells they act as creature removal until your opponent is low enough on life to consider closing out the game with burn reach. You don't just play TF on curve like you would a creature... You rarely need 5 damage to remove a creature and often 2-4 is enough. 5 damage TF aimed at the face only comes out later when the manabase is developped.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Added a Sideboard map to the primer.

    This is probably one of the most complete primers on the source. Pretty nice for a deck that nobody cares about... :P
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  9. #9
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Hi,

    love your deck, it makes me want to play agro again (last time was with blue zoo...)

    Do you find submerge castable enough against the big monster deck? What about diabolic edict instead?
    I play against too many lands and S&S for my taste.

    I'm gonna sleeve it and try it next week.
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  10. #10

    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    Added a Sideboard map to the primer.

    This is probably one of the most complete primers on the source. Pretty nice for a deck that nobody cares about... :P
    don't say so, I just fell in love with the deck
    time to grab some tribal flames over mkm and I'm ready for it!
    Since I can't to any check at this time, is it possible to replace the scalding tarn with other fetches?

  11. #11
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Plm View Post
    Hi,

    love your deck, it makes me want to play agro again (last time was with blue zoo...)

    Do you find submerge castable enough against the big monster deck? What about diabolic edict instead?
    I play against too many lands and S&S for my taste.

    I'm gonna sleeve it and try it next week.
    Glad you enjoy it!

    Submerge is not the most reliable against Depths but it is quite useful against Elves, Team America, 4c Loam, Maverick/Jund type decks. I don't like Edict because black mana is essentially the 4th color. In many matchups where you would want additional removal, wastelands are likely to be fired at your black sources. Personally I wouldn't bring any form of creature removal against SnT decks. If you want something specially for Depths that you can use in other matchups, try one of these:

    Far // Away
    Dead // Gone


    I played the deck with a 2nd USea as an 18th land and had the Sylvan Library in the board for a while and eventually opted for a RUG shell. Not requiring black mana has made it much easier to play the deck against Wastelands. As my main and side is setup now, I usually alternate between 2 Thoughtseize OR 2 Decays as my only black requirements. Of course you can always switch from green-centric to black-centric for an even better manabase but you would lose Goyfs...

    @NegatorITA

    It will be difficult to play without Tarn. After all, it is the only fetchland that can grab any dual in the deck...
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  12. #12

    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    Glad you enjoy it!

    Submerge is not the most reliable against Depths but it is quite useful against Elves, Team America, 4c Loam, Maverick/Jund type decks. I don't like Edict because black mana is essentially the 4th color. In many matchups where you would want additional removal, wastelands are likely to be fired at your black sources. Personally I wouldn't bring any form of creature removal against SnT decks. If you want something specially for Depths that you can use in other matchups, try one of these:

    Far // Away
    Dead // Gone


    I played the deck with a 2nd USea as an 18th land and had the Sylvan Library in the board for a while and eventually opted for a RUG shell. Not requiring black mana has made it much easier to play the deck against Wastelands. As my main and side is setup now, I usually alternate between 2 Thoughtseize OR 2 Decays as my only black requirements. Of course you can always switch from green-centric to black-centric for an even better manabase but you would lose Goyfs...

    @NegatorITA

    It will be difficult to play without Tarn. After all, it is the only fetchland that can grab any dual in the deck...
    No biggie, I was on the fence to get another set anyway, I often need a second set of tarns, this is the perfect excuse to get one :)

    EDIT
    The biggest and hardest things as of now is to understand what fetch to get early on, since you can start off with blue, black, or red... but you will also need green pretty soon (goyf)!
    Otherwise the damage output of the deck seems solid or at least very very fun :) can't wait to play aroud with the deck.
    Last edited by NegatorITA; 04-13-2018 at 02:02 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by NegatorITA View Post
    No biggie, I was on the fence to get another set anyway, I often need a second set of tarns, this is the perfect excuse to get one :)

    EDIT
    The biggest and hardest things as of now is to understand what fetch to get early on, since you can start off with blue, black, or red... but you will also need green pretty soon (goyf)!
    Otherwise the damage output of the deck seems solid or at least very very fun :) can't wait to play aroud with the deck.
    You always want Trop first unless you are opening with Thoughtseize or Bolt, in which case you want USea, Volc, or Badlands. The deck is primarily blue, then green and red. Badlands is the best complement to Trop if you aren't concerned about Wasteland. Taiga is the best complement to USea if you are forced to open with it. You can complete with Tundra for 5c on 3 lands to reach Domain. Don't stress about achieving White or Black because they are not crucial in the early stages. You will mostly keep 1-2 land hands so prioritize Blue mana first, Green for your threats, and Red for removal. Here are some common fetch sequences:

    Trop -> Badlands -> Tundra -> Taiga = cannot be cut off blue, green, and red with a single Waste. Aiming for black to stop DRS leaves your blue sources intact. This is the most resillient configuration but not the most functional.

    Trop -> Badlands -> Volc/Tundra -> Tundra/Volc is probably the best and most functional sequence. Green mana is the most versatile color for your first land after blue but is the worst to have multiples after White. Trop is one of the least susceptible to Wasteland as well. Maxing out on blue mana and doubling on red is essential when topdeckimg cantrips and stacking burn spells.

    Usea -> Taiga -> Tundra -> Trop/Volc = lots of blue sources and gets to safeguard red or green mana. A great configuration when you aren't too concerned with Wasteland because blue mana is the most functional, red mana is great in multiples on 4 lands, and green mana is the least necessary in multiples. You want to aim for this configuration when you have to open with a USea

    When fetching, Scalding Tarn is the fetch you want to save for last because it can grab any land. Delta gets everything except Taiga and Misty everything except Badlands. Once you have fetched a Badlands, Tarn and Misty have the same value. The same can be said about Tarn and Delta with regards to Taiga. Prioritize accordingly...

    There are more advanced fetch sequences that you want to do in certain matchups with certain boarding plans but it takes a good mastery of the deck to discuss.
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  14. #14

    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    You always want Trop first unless you are opening with Thoughtseize or Bolt, in which case you want USea, Volc, or Badlands. The deck is primarily blue, then green and red. Badlands is the best complement to Trop if you aren't concerned about Wasteland. Taiga is the best complement to USea if you are forced to open with it. You can complete with Tundra for 5c on 3 lands to reach Domain. Don't stress about achieving White or Black because they are not crucial in the early stages. You will mostly keep 1-2 land hands so prioritize Blue mana first, Green for your threats, and Red for removal. Here are some common fetch sequences:

    Trop -> Badlands -> Tundra -> Taiga = cannot be cut off blue, green, and red with a single Waste. Aiming for black to stop DRS leaves your blue sources intact. This is the most resillient configuration but not the most functional.

    Trop -> Badlands -> Volc/Tundra -> Tundra/Volc is probably the best and most functional sequence. Green mana is the most versatile color for your first land after blue but is the worst to have multiples after White. Trop is one of the least susceptible to Wasteland as well. Maxing out on blue mana and doubling on red is essential when topdeckimg cantrips and stacking burn spells.

    Usea -> Taiga -> Tundra -> Trop/Volc = lots of blue sources and gets to safeguard red or green mana. A great configuration when you aren't too concerned with Wasteland because blue mana is the most functional, red mana is great in multiples on 4 lands, and green mana is the least necessary in multiples. You want to aim for this configuration when you have to open with a USea

    When fetching, Scalding Tarn is the fetch you want to save for last because it can grab any land. Delta gets everything except Taiga and Misty everything except Badlands. Once you have fetched a Badlands, Tarn and Misty have the same value. The same can be said about Tarn and Delta with regards to Taiga. Prioritize accordingly...

    There are more advanced fetch sequences that you want to do in certain matchups with certain boarding plans but it takes a good mastery of the deck to discuss.
    Yes I sit down goldfishing and fetching in order to get these in my mind, was a little pissed by how the misty can't take badlands after a tropical as first land drop, so I had to keep that in mind later on, was on the fence for cutting a taiga at first, then I remembered that it gets you 4c out of an U-sea, as you mentioned.
    At very rare times I was missing a bayou (to match with volc) but that's because I keep drawing thoughtseize each game and I'm so used to activate deathrite asap, which isn't the case here probably, and I get that having many non island is too much to ask for a daze.deck.
    Overall once you get that sequence in mind it runs way better, definitly it needs a little of practice otherwise the loss for mana color screw is granted

  15. #15
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Another approach you might appreciate is playing 18 lands and moving Library to the SB. This allows you to play a 2nd USea and go 50/50 on the USea and Trop openers. it also gives equal value to Badlands and Taiga so I recommend splitting Delta and Misty 3/3 as well. You also increase your land count against Wastelands and can commit a little more to black in general. For me this usually translates to Leovold > Snap or TNN, or the inclusion of Angler. You also get to play Edicts over Submerge and KCommand over Grudge in the SB.

    I don't play Bayou because Volc + Bayou doesn't cast Decay or Charm.
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  16. #16

    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    Another approach you might appreciate is playing 18 lands and moving Library to the SB. This allows you to play a 2nd USea and go 50/50 on the USea and Trop openers. it also gives equal value to Badlands and Taiga so I recommend splitting Delta and Misty 3/3 as well. You also increase your land count against Wastelands and can commit a little more to black in general. For me this usually translates to Leovold > Snap or TNN, or the inclusion of Angler. You also get to play Edicts over Submerge and KCommand over Grudge in the SB.

    I don't play Bayou because Volc + Bayou doesn't cast Decay or Charm.
    I think I love playing with library though, it's really powerful when you can just draw TF and close the deal.

  17. #17

    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Played that list tonight,


    Faced
    grixis delver 1-2 loss
    Grixis delver 2-0 or 2-1 can't remember win
    Infect 1-2 loss
    Pox 2-1 win

    No trouble getting the right Mana, but got outta some games due wasteland.
    Vs the first delver the game I lost was because I saw 7 lands out of two library activations and a brainstorm, while lacking actions in g3, had to use two tribals to stay alive and saw no beaters.

    Vs the second grixis delver the deck went nuts, doing stuff like: clearly remember the last game was
    Bolt on deathrite, Golgari on delver, tarmo on the field, snap bolt on delver, snap Golgari on his nemesi, playing my own delver and closing the game with tribal.
    I also changed sideboard plan, cutting some forces for fluster and Reb, daze for decay Golgari, thoughtseize on the play and so on

    Vs infect he missed blue g1 and I got all the answers
    G2 he went out double nemesis after I killed some dudes with the unblockable one after I tried to make him waste some spells.
    G3 mulled to six to a crappy one land hand which I lose t1 to wasteland, because I could stand and get another land to fire off two submerge, but I was too much behind. B
    Match is tight and he mentioned I should have cut nemesis for Reb, while I preferred to keep the fish since the spells who matters are green, but all in all makes sense, its a very fast deck, was afraid of Reb being too narrow having already decay who could handle only some threats ( not hitting nexus)

    Vs pox he destroyed me g1 with triple smallpox, could handle two, not three nor the following Lili.
    G2 I menage to steal it after a similar start.
    G3 he had double wasteland and confident, after t1 discard, he drops one waste and the Bob, lucky for me he chose to bait the bolt on order to save a future Lili, to bad I also had draw a needle, which names wasteland while bolt eats Bob.
    He only draws waste not tourach and lands while I drop tarmo nemesi and Delver.


    Deck is fun and pack a punch, here and there I got some bad draw and some poor decisions, handling resources is really vital in this deck, not something I'm used to, pretty sure I've wasted a couple of bolt / daze in the first Delver March who didn't hit a later Delver/nemesis costing the game
    Last edited by NegatorITA; 04-18-2018 at 10:10 AM.

  18. #18
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    @NegatorITA

    Not too bad for a first run. As you've mentioned, there is a lot of management to do for the manabase and the SB plans reflect constrictions you can encounter.

    Against Grixis for example I always side out TS for Decay because I don't want to incur life loss but also because I want to avoid having too many black cards with only 2 black sources. I think you used a very similar SB plan as the one I posted for that matchup (-2 TS -2 FoW -1 Library +2 Pyro +2 Decay +1 Charm). I bring in 2 Fluster over the 2 remaining FoW when I am on the play too. You could make a case for keeping Sylvan Library over the 4th Daze but I don't ever want to pay life in this matchup and I would rather have Daze on the play and any form of early interaction on the draw (therefore Daze/FoW > Library).

    Infect is not a bad matchup but isn't particularly great either. We have lots of removal but 2 mana sorcery burn spells won't cut it here. The lack of Wasteland makes it harder to deal with Nexus. Infect's Achille's heel is the amount of dead cards it plays if it can't stick a threat. I don't mind losing a 2 for 1 to keep an infecter from hitting the board as I know they are likely to have a grip of unusable pump spells in their hand. My boarding plan for this matchup when it used to be more popular was:

    -2 TNN -2 TS/FoW -4 TF -1 Library
    +2 Fluster +2 Submerge +2 Decay +1 Charm +1 Grudge +1 Needle

    I would only play TS on the play though and keep all 4 FoW on the draw. It is very easy to lose on T2 with counter backup.

    One of the tricks to play this deck is knowing when to side out TF. Even though it is the deck's namesake card, TF is very often sided out entirely. The reason being that going big on burn is only very good against aggro decks. TF is excellent as a mainboard card because it shines G1 in all matchups as it is additional removal that can go to the face. This aspect is relevant against nearly every deck except fast combo. When G2-3 rolls around, TF loses most of its value against Control and Combo decks. Then, Domain Zoo will shine as a 4+ color deck with very strong and diverse SB options, not with burn reach.

    Against a deck like Pox you want to get rid of all burn spells and load up on threats and soft counters. Nevermind getting 2 for 1 with FoW because it will likely prevent an Hymn/Smallpox/Brutality blowout. Getting 2 creatures on the board is how you essentially put a lot of pretty on Pox. For example if you are on the draw you don't want to drive out a T1 threat without Daze/FoW backup because you are opening up to a Smallpox blowout. It is better to way for T2 to land 2 threats or even to flash Snap/Priest EoT and play your 1drop on your turn hopefully backed by some soft counters. Then it becomes much harder for a Pox player to manage the board in time with their Sorcery spells.

    -4 Bolt -4 TF
    +1 Priest +2 Fluster +2 Decay +1 Grudge +1 Blossom +1 Needle

    On an different note, I've been working on including an 18th land and having a reasonable black splash. I find TNN to be a bit slow in this deck and would like to play more fatties in order to really nail down all of the aggro matchups and be able to focus entirely on Combo and Control postboard. I am trying the following changes:

    Main:
    -2 TNN -1 Library -1 Delta
    +1 Gurmag +1 Leovold +1 USea +1 Misty
    SB:
    -2 Fluster -2 Submerge -1 Needle
    +2 Pierce +2 Edict +1 Library

    Elves really needs a little push which is why I am including a Leo. I would also like to fit in a 2nd Golgari Charm. Even though the card is narrow, playing only 1 sweeper leaves us soft to many strategies.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    How's this deck after the new bannings? Since the likely return of temur delver it might be a fun option to run. Any love for Nacatl?

  20. #20
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    Re: Domain Zoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
    How's this deck after the new bannings? Since the likely return of temur delver it might be a fun option to run. Any love for Nacatl?
    Domain has no chance without DRS unfortunately... Check out Blue Zoo if you want some Nacatl + Delver action.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
    Get it...? Ass, u, me?

    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

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