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Thread: MTG Arena

  1. #301
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    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    Its not a voilation since it is spelled out in the policy that it doesnt include digital cards... and why would it there is nothing collectible about digital stuff. Furthermore what good is a game that only an extremely limited number can play...
    Just to make sure everyone's on the same page, if they've said their policy doesn't include digital cards, that means they've changed the "promise" they made in 1996. (N.B.: It wouldn't be the first time.) If they've gone back on their "promise" by changing the terms thereof, it holds no weight—moral, legal, or otherwise, in part or as a whole.

    It's a shame you still have to pay for legal representation to get frivolous suits thrown out of court.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
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    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  2. #302
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    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    That's a benefit from a players prospective.

    Not sure why you pointed out the obvious

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    Just to make sure everyone's on the same page, if they've said their policy doesn't include digital cards, that means they've changed the "promise" they made in 1996. (N.B.: It wouldn't be the first time.) If they've gone back on their "promise" by changing the terms thereof, it holds no weight—moral, legal, or otherwise, in part or as a whole.

    It's a shame you still have to pay for legal representation to get frivolous suits thrown out of court.
    Not sure what you are referring to but the only change im familiar with is the addition of permium cards to the reprint policy. Im sure digital cards were added at some point because back in 1996 it might not have been foreseeable that digital cards needed to be specified in the policy.
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  3. #303

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    Not sure why you pointed out the obvious
    Because it's not what I asked for.

  4. #304

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    and why would it there is nothing collectible about digital stuff.
    According to whom?

  5. #305

    Re: MTG Arena

    I have some thoughts vis-a-vis arena and the reserve list.

    I don't believe there is any real intention to implement any sets older than standard plus on arena (kaladesh forward would be my guess). The first reason is we know there will be a standard plus. There has to be or people would be less likely to put money into the system.

    I've seen a lot of talk that eternal formats would be a 'cash cow' on arena, but would they? I've played a ton of arena since release. I think it's good software. The reality is the vast majority of players are f2p (or close) and overwhelmingly favor bo1.

    Here are what I consider the reasons. Bo3 is behind a toggle. It's much longer to finish a match. It requires more wildcards. Sideboards are not noob friendly. More enfranchised players accuse wizards of goosing the stats, but there are tangible reasons why players choose bo1.

    A lot of players struggle to make one meta deck for standard. Often times they are 'forced' to play mono color aggro to grind rewards. They struggle to make more than one meta deck. I don't see this population, which I'd contend is the overwhelming majority, suddenly deciding to drop a lot of money on an older format where most of the cards from reward packs and free drafts are useless. Conversely, any modern cards are useless in the most popular format. This dilemma exists no matter how they choose to add old cards. As an aside, this is why I believe standard plus will be kaladesh forward. It gives people to chance to spend money, but doesn't totally lock out f2p. Whales need f2p to have fun too.

    The second problem is the bo3 issue. People already don't favor it. Could you imagine playing modern bo1? How does anything beat dredge? Matchups are already swingy and sideboard dependent. It would be a dumpster fire to play bo1. That wouldn't be a problem if most people preferred bo3, but that just isn't the case.

    This also makes me think standard plus will be the new modern as far as level of support. Modern will be relegated to legacy level. The obvious reason is that it is playable on the shiny new software. The less obvious reason is because it will be palatable in bo1. Saheeli cat will be banned. If combo is more in line with reclamation/Nexus, most decide have a fighting chance of winning any match. Bad matchups will be closer to 60-40 preboard. Wizards will curate the new format with this philosophy in mind.

    Another huge issue with adding more formats beyond standard plus is the fragmentation of the player base. Right now we have several flavors of standard and limited queues, with a dollop of special weekend formats. Wait time is low for pretty much everything. I'd imagine we'll have a permanent bo1 and bo3 standard plus queue next fall. If the queues are diluted further with modern, there could be a real risk of long wait times. The most vulnerable format would probably be modern itself.

    The programming cost to implement it would be considerable. The return on that cost would be sketchy in my opinion. The queues would have the worst wait time of all. Lastly, I just don't think modern lines up well with current design sensibilities. Even if there is a vocal population asking for it, I just don't see it at any point in the foreseeable future, if at all.

    Standard plus could be fun too. I'm going to give it a shot.

    I also mentioned related thoughts on the reserved list and mtgo. I have a weird theory on what wizards might do if the can no longer support mtgo (if by conscious choice, or because it dies more naturally). They can't really port the cards into arena, because the formats won't be there to support. I also think no compensation could hurt the perception of buying into arena. There is one option that will let them make one last pile of money on their dead software, make the mtgo players not just whole but happy, and not hurt any of their other bottom lines. Crazy, right?

    I think a strong course of action would be to allow a one time redemption for all mtgo cards for paper. They could charge a fixed amount to print any card and tack on a shipping cost like normal redemption. At all points along the cost curve, wizards would make a decent amount of money from a dead product. Mtgo players would be sad to see the platform go (that would likely be inevitable anyway), but would be overall satisfied with the exchange.

    One thorny part of this plan is the reserved list. Wizards could skirt the issue by not showing redemption of these cards. They could release them, but with a special border. Or they good go whole hog, allow them to be redeemed normally, and close the issue forever as a one time injection of these cards into the economy. I think the last option would be as good a compromise as any on the reserve list. I don't even think much inventory exists of rl cards in mtgo. The prices would go down, but would hardly crash. Wizards has shown with treasure chest and masters sets that they don't mind making their profit off of collection equity of players' collections.

    Crazy? Maybe. Maybe not.

  6. #306

    Re: MTG Arena

    I don't think they're likely to end the reserve list. It doesn't really come with any benefit to wizards. I think if they do, it will probably be on some kind of self limiting basis that doesn't crash the market. Honestly, they are best served by having a healthy price Gap between formats. A lot of anti reserve list folks think breaking it would be 'printing money.' If so, why haven't they done it? My guess is because that would actually cut into their bottom line (standard). Who knows?

  7. #307
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    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Backseat_Critic View Post
    I don't think they're likely to end the reserve list. It doesn't really come with any benefit to wizards. I think if they do, it will probably be on some kind of self limiting basis that doesn't crash the market. Honestly, they are best served by having a healthy price Gap between formats. A lot of anti reserve list folks think breaking it would be 'printing money.' If so, why haven't they done it? My guess is because that would actually cut into their bottom line (standard). Who knows?
    They haven't ended it because they assume an interminable queue of shitters would form to sue them for "breaking their promise" and costing them an indeterminate amount of money on their "investments," regardless of the fact that the "promise" was broken when they decided to reprint Feroz's Ban because it was "accidentally" put on the list, and again when they decided to remove all commons and uncommons from the list (in direct contravention of the "promise"), and again again when they reprinted Phyrexian Negator, and once more (with feeling!) when they put RL cards on MTGO, and—

    Like I said, it's a damned shame they need [EDIT: TO PAY] a legal team to tell idiots to go home.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  8. #308

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Backseat_Critic View Post
    I don't think they're likely to end the reserve list. It doesn't really come with any benefit to wizards. I think if they do, it will probably be on some kind of self limiting basis that doesn't crash the market. Honestly, they are best served by having a healthy price Gap between formats. A lot of anti reserve list folks think breaking it would be 'printing money.' If so, why haven't they done it? My guess is because that would actually cut into their bottom line (standard). Who knows?
    I've always beleived that a mass violation of the reserved list will happen as a last grasp for cash right before canceling the game. Hopefully that doesn't happen for decades, but as with all things the game will die at some point.

    I could *easily* see them release a final "thanks for playing" set that includes all the cash money grabs at once.

  9. #309

    Re: MTG Arena

    Maybe a small cash grab to end mtgo is also possible. I agree with your premise, a mass end of the reserved list would signal the game is done.

  10. #310
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    Re: MTG Arena

    They will find at some point a way to capitalize on the fact that they have thousands of cards to be added to MTGA.
    There is some money to be made with MTG old cards.

    They can for example Give all cards available before kaladesh for a fixed amount of money and add events with gem costs for an eternal format.
    At some point an hasbro executive will remember that people were paying to play on MTGO and ask himself if those people could pay also on MTGA :)

    I'd love wizard to do something along those lines because i don't care if my eternal card's price crashes... all i want is to be able to play.
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  11. #311

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    They will find at some point a way to capitalize on the fact that they have thousands of cards to be added to MTGA.
    There is some money to be made with MTG old cards.

    They can for example Give all cards available before kaladesh for a fixed amount of money and add events with gem costs for an eternal format.
    At some point an hasbro executive will remember that people were paying to play on MTGO and ask himself if those people could pay also on MTGA :)

    I'd love wizard to do something along those lines because i don't care if my eternal card's price crashes... all i want is to be able to play.
    honestly, I'm shocked that they aren't planning on rolling out a "buy it in paper, get a code to have it in Arena" cross promotion for all fixed card products. So, buy a challenger deck? Enter this code now you have those exact cards in arena! by a planeswalker deck? Enter the code. Now you have your shitty precon and precon walker in arena too!

  12. #312
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    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Backseat_Critic View Post
    I don't think they're likely to end the reserve list. It doesn't really come with any benefit to wizards. I think if they do, it will probably be on some kind of self limiting basis that doesn't crash the market. Honestly, they are best served by having a healthy price Gap between formats. A lot of anti reserve list folks think breaking it would be 'printing money.' If so, why haven't they done it? My guess is because that would actually cut into their bottom line (standard). Who knows?
    The potential legal rammifications, whether or not they’d lose they inevitable law suit (there would be I’d imagine) you’d ultimately be in a legal pissing contest with your consumers. Something I don’t blame them for not wanting to get into
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  13. #313
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    Re: MTG Arena

    I'm a FTP Arena player but only because I can't justify actually finishing any Standard decks due to the format being so much less fun for me than Modern.

    If they put Modern on there I wouldn't hesitate to fill out a few decks, which would definitely require me to use money. I think they'd make a killing on that because adding more formats doesn't increase the amount of Daily free money they give out, but it increases the number of rares/mythics the average person would need to buy to play all the decks/formats they want.

    I don't think they'll do it for a few years since they don't have their shit completely together yet, but all things considered Arena is much better than I expected and overall pretty fun to play.

    It also wouldn't be hard to motivate people to play Bo3's instead of Bo1's if they just added some higher buy-in/pay-out events that were only Bo3's. Then we'd have to spend rares to fill out our sideboards as well. I mostly play Bo1 draft since it's easier to stay close to infinite and you don't have to play against/with crappy decks for as long a time period. Bo3's can take an hour and most of the time the better deck is going to win anyway in a draft, be it Bo1 or Bo3.

  14. #314

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    I'm a FTP Arena player but only because I can't justify actually finishing any Standard decks due to the format being so much less fun for me than Modern.

    If they put Modern on there I wouldn't hesitate to fill out a few decks, which would definitely require me to use money. I think they'd make a killing on that because adding more formats doesn't increase the amount of Daily free money they give out, but it increases the number of rares/mythics the average person would need to buy to play all the decks/formats they want.

    I don't think they'll do it for a few years since they don't have their shit completely together yet, but all things considered Arena is much better than I expected and overall pretty fun to play.

    It also wouldn't be hard to motivate people to play Bo3's instead of Bo1's if they just added some higher buy-in/pay-out events that were only Bo3's. Then we'd have to spend rares to fill out our sideboards as well. I mostly play Bo1 draft since it's easier to stay close to infinite and you don't have to play against/with crappy decks for as long a time period. Bo3's can take an hour and most of the time the better deck is going to win anyway in a draft, be it Bo1 or Bo3.

    I'm actually finding Standard right now far more fun than Modern.

    Modern is a coinflip. In Standard I built Jeskai Niv Mizzet Control and it's given me a pretty crazy win rate because I can actually metagame against the field unlike in Modern where you face 20 vastly different decks every round.
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  15. #315

    Re: MTG Arena

    I agree with standard being better than modern now. Legacy is still King of course.

    The problem with modern isn't that there are 20 decks, it's that all of the aggressive decks choose to attack at different angles that modern doesn't have the card pool to address with main deck answers. Ironically, standard has versatile main deck answers to a ton of problems. Almost none of them are a good enough rate for even sideboard play in modern.

    There's a very real possibility they can ruin standard again, but I sure hope not. Standard plus looks like it will be more fun than modern if they can keep up the good work.

  16. #316
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    Re: MTG Arena

    Fair enough, my point wasn't that Modern > Standard. I just said I like it better; it is a fruitless errand to attempt to argue anything other than Legacy is the best format on this site, not that it matters because play what you like.

    The point was that more formats = more decks people are going to want to fill out, and with limited free daily coins you're not going to be able to do that so more people will have to pay. If they had vintage + legacy + modern + standard, you'd better believe I'd put enough money on there to get all the fetches, duals, force of wills, etc I'd need to flesh out at least 1 fully competitive deck per format. With only Standard as an option I just don't care to make more than 1 full deck, which was easy enough to do with daily rewards.

    They could even make the old chase cards like dual lands Mythics to make it more lucrative for them.

  17. #317

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Backseat_Critic View Post
    ...
    There's a very real possibility they can ruin standard again, but I sure hope not. Standard plus looks like it will be more fun than modern if they can keep up the good work.
    Am I right in thinking that this standard is pretty unique because it has a much larger card pool due to the rotation changes and counter-changes?

    I must say last time I logged into MTGO I saw, for the first time, leagues for modern and standard running in the lower hundreds in terms of participants. Not looking good for it's continuity.

  18. #318

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    ...

    The point was that more formats = more decks people are going to want to fill out, and with limited free daily coins you're not going to be able to do that so more people will have to pay. If they had vintage + legacy + modern + standard, you'd better believe I'd put enough money on there to get all the fetches, duals, force of wills, etc I'd need to flesh out at least 1 fully competitive deck per format. ...
    There's a person for each POV. I wouldn't. I would play the best format that would allow me to quickly build a legacy deck and that would be it.

  19. #319
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    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by jmlima View Post
    There's a person for each POV. I wouldn't. I would play the best format that would allow me to quickly build a legacy deck and that would be it.
    Right, but you wouldn't be costing them any real money. Whereas people like me would be giving them money. So overall they still will make money.

  20. #320

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    Right, but you wouldn't be costing them any real money. Whereas people like me would be giving them money. So overall they still will make money.
    No doubts about that.

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