Page 2 of 20 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 391

Thread: MTG Arena

  1. #21

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    https://twitter.com/SaffronOlive/sta...53682467209217

    Don't expect economy tweaks before late April.
    Holy fuck.

    This is going to fail so much harder than I ever imagined.

    It's like, I'm sort of happy BioWare is going to die in a fire when Anthem comes out and bombs, because they haven't made a good game since ME2, but I'll still be sad BioWare that I used to love is gone. Same thing with Star Wars movies after TLJ and whatever clusterdump Solo turns out to be. Guess I'm now adding Magic to that list.

    When Schadenfruede is the only kind of joy you can get, take it and roll with it I guess.

  2. #22
    Member
    porcupinetreeman's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2005
    Location

    Wisconsin
    Posts

    161

    Re: MTG Arena

    Hearthstone is reducing the time for daily quests in next expansion. Why? because a lot of people don't have that much time to invest in a game everyday.

    mtg arena will fail with those times

  3. #23
    Here I Rule!!!!!!!!!!
    Phoenix Ignition's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2008
    Location

    Minneapolis MN
    Posts

    2,380

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    It's like, I'm sort of happy BioWare is going to die in a fire when Anthem comes out and bombs, because they haven't made a good game since ME2, but I'll still be sad BioWare that I used to love is gone. Same thing with Star Wars movies after TLJ and whatever clusterdump Solo turns out to be.
    Rogue One was legitimately good.

  4. #24

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    Rogue One was legitimately good.
    Agreed. By far the best since the OT. It put the War back in Star Wars.

  5. #25
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    6,762

    Re: MTG Arena

    https://rngeternal.com/2018/03/28/go...-mtga-economy/

    So somebody did the math and apparantly Arena is slightly less generous than Hearthstone, assuming Arena at its best and Hearthstone at its worst.

  6. #26
    It's not easy being green

    Join Date

    Jul 2010
    Posts

    1,630

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Agreed. By far the best since the OT. It put the War back in Star Wars.
    There is a problem on the horizon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  7. #27

    Re: MTG Arena

    I think the summary of that article is that it takes 2 months to build a competitive deck on Arena (assuming "an extremely generous chance of having a 10% chance of opening a wanted Mythic, and a 20% chance of opening a wanted Rare"), and the vault basically may as well not exist for how poor the rewards out of it are.

    Part of the thing with Arena vs Hearthstone is that with Hearthstone, you can dust your old deck and recycle part of it. Impossible with Arena, your old cards are sunk value. There's marginal value I assume with Wildcards that would carry over to the new rotation.

    So, Arena is 100% pay to win as far as I can tell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I about died from laughter when I was watching my feature match and the commentators called Tinfins a difficult and challenging deck.

    I'm not saying it's the easiest deck to play, but the plan is so linear that I could probably get white girl wasted and still beat people with the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Imagine the trauma of a man who has seen Mom into Crusader enough to mainboard three Cabal Pits.

  8. #28

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    https://rngeternal.com/2018/03/28/go...-mtga-economy/

    So somebody did the math and apparantly Arena is slightly less generous than Hearthstone, assuming Arena at its best and Hearthstone at its worst.
    It's almost like someone wants the company to fail, isn't it?

  9. #29

    Re: MTG Arena

    To call that math "generous" in favor of Arena is to obliterate the meaning of the word. You'd be lucky to get a 1 in 15 "useful rare" ratio out of a single sets packs. Consider that in actual deckbuilding "useful rare" is generally one of 2-3 specific cards in a given set, it's more like 1 in 50, and most decks run cards from multiple sets, so you need to get that 1 in 50 chance about 30 times to finish your deck.
    A specific, tier 1 deck isn't 2 months. It's 5 or 6 at the current drop rates. And that's assuming they go back to putting wildcards in the vault, instead of its current shitty "random rares/mythics or wildcards."

  10. #30

    Re: MTG Arena

    This is probably the best summation of what's wrong with Arena I've seen anyone post in the Beta forum about why they're quitting the Beta. (there have a been a LOT of those posts) Currently the devs say the earliest they'll address any changes to the economy is late April. I cannot at all see that being a reasonable date, but I guess we'll see. Anyway, figured I'd share it here.

    In many ways the designers are to be congratulated: I cannot conceive of a more offputting system that emphasises all the worst aspects of Magic while removing the better ones.

    This game is simply not fun. There's no compelling reason to keep playing.

    With card acquisition the way it is now, this game is dead in the water.

    If you have a poor deck that needs additional cards, this game makes it harder than it needs to be to acquire those cards. Your deck is bad, you are going to lose. A lot. The only way to acquire a random new card is to win. You won't win often. Should you manage to win there's maybe a 1% chance that the card you get will improve your deck.

    Newer players are faced with a daunting task, and that task will get harder as the game goes on, not easier. What people are complaining about now is the easiest this system will be. Think on that, then think about a full standard implementation and some joke decks to start people off. No one is going to put in the time, as the game will not reward players for doing so.

    At the very least, ICRs need to be based on daily activity, not daily wins. Let people progress somewhat even if all they do is get smashed 5 times a day. Or they'll leave.

    Vault opening is a joke without the mythic wildcard included. This needs to be put back in asap.

    A couple of starting decks is fine, but 10 is actually too many. Most new players will waste wildcard after wildcard trying to build 4, 6, 8 or all of these decks into something playable before realising it's futile. Then they will leave. More choice is not the same as better, and being given 10 poor decks is no way to connect new players to this game and encourage them to stay.

    What players should get to start with is 2-3 (at most) decks, along with a deck's worth of wildcards. I mean 40 commons, 20 uncommons, 8 rares, and 4 mythics. All wildcards, all whatever you want them to be. Players need to be able to quickly move to something that is partway playable (think Challenger deck level) to encourage them to keep going and play more.

    I think the game's designers have done a fine job of replicating Magic in an interesting way graphically, but to surround it with this tedious hamster wheel of an economy makes all that effort worthless.

    Maybe these things will change at some magical future point. However for now I feel the best feedback I can give as a beta tester is to do what I think the majority of players will do when faced with this joke of a system: stop playing. I'm done. See you when the game becomes worth the time it takes to play.

  11. #31

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Hearthstone was designed with a maximum of 7 minions per side. Now compare that to MtG's midrange grindfests. Decks that have alot of permanents are probably going to be hell, especially token decks. That seems to be another failure of WotC not realizing that just copying HS doesn't work.
    It's actually surprisingly easy since Arena automatically stacks the tokens by groups.

  12. #32

    Re: MTG Arena

    I think there's a bit of fair criticism and a bit of unfair criticism. Let me try to quickly sum up my thoughts. (BTW, I was on the second wave of testers, so I've been going on in there for a while).

    Interface - Like many others, I agree that copying Hearthstone might have sounded appealing but it's a bit of a problem. Resolutions aside, since that side is not finished, the view angle makes reading cards difficult and you spend (or I do) a lot of time right-clicking cards to see what they are. There's acres of empty space, that I hope will be used more effectively in the future. Compared to MTGO, I can see that younger players will prefer the Arena version, but MtG is not Hearthstone and some cards will be a pain in the bum to read in mobile / tablets.

    Gameplay - Pretty good. I find the experience of gameplay smooth, I don't find land tapping particularly taxing, and even if the trigger / stops take a bit of getting used to, they work.

    Collection - AKA, meat and bones. In the last update, we went backwards. There’s no denying that. The removal of mythic wildcards from the vault was a major mistake. But there is a more fundamental problem, MtG is not Hearthstone (HS). For comparison, I’m a F2P player in HS and by playing some 30mins per day have amassed a collection that allows me to play a new standard deck per rotation and to have several of the most expensive in dust wild decks. There’s no bloody way I would be able to do that in Arena. And the reason, is a disconnect between the rewards and the requirements. In MtG a standard deck can have something like 10 or 12 mythics, plus another 10 or 12 rares. Of these, some can be full playsets. In HS, you can have a singleton of each mythic and at most 2 of each rare. In Arena , at present, you are getting HS style of rewards whilst trying to build MtG style decks. Guess-timating, some 75% of players won’t be able to have their first deck before rotation kicks in.

    Now, where I think there’s a bit of unfairness is that, after reading the above you are thinking ‘it sucks’. Yes, it does. But we still have no clue how drafts will work and what impact will drafts have on collection progress. This is clearly a game aimed at the limited-draft axis, not the ‘I’ll buy the best standard deck’. What’s more, we do not know how gems will work. They can flip all of this upside down.

    TL;DR – We are lacking serious pieces of information to judge the economy; it’s very stable and a decent platform to play on.

  13. #33

    Re: MTG Arena

    Really? Lands are easy to tap? Despite the way they constantly dance around and re-arranged themselves every time you tap one?

    If they looked at the last economy and honestly thought "let's make it way less generous because that's a good idea" there is no way in hell I, or anyone else, should remotely give them the benefit of the doubt going forward. Also, a lot of players DON'T LIKE LIMITED. So saying that's the only way to progress (maybe, theoretically) isn't really saying much.

    Don't even get me started on the fact that you can't read your cards while they're in hand unless you left click on them, because fuck it, why not, pictures are all you need, right?

  14. #34

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Really? Lands are easy to tap? Despite the way they constantly dance around and re-arranged themselves every time you tap one?
    ...
    I just tried it. Say you have a stack of forests and want to click all of them. You put your mouse over them, click one, it moves away, click , moves away, click, moves away and so on. Not sure what is the difficulty?

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    If they looked at the last economy and honestly thought "let's make it way less generous because that's a good idea" there is no way in hell I, or anyone else, should remotely give them the benefit of the doubt going forward. Also, a lot of players DON'T LIKE LIMITED. So saying that's the only way to progress (maybe, theoretically) isn't really saying much....
    I think you are missing my point. I agree with what you say. But my point is that we do not have the full economy in place to judge how it will work. As an example, before they introduced Amonketh and Hour of Devastation , it was dead easy to keep collecting wildcards due to the simple fact that you were constantly filling the vault since the more packs you opened the more repeat cards, the more the vault filled. Now, the vault takes aeons to fill since opening packs does not automatically results in half the cards being repeats of cards you have. How do we know what the heck will happen with drafts, ladders , more sets, etc all in place? We don't it's the simple answer.

  15. #35
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    6,762

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by jmlima View Post
    But my point is that we do not have the full economy in place to judge how it will work.
    Given their track record with MTGO, I wouldn't get my hopes up. All they ever did was continously increase their rake.

    They have no expert for online economies and how their "improvement" of the system made it worse, Arena seems to go down the same path. WotC doesn't know how to be generous.

  16. #36

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by jmlima View Post
    I just tried it. Say you have a stack of forests and want to click all of them. You put your mouse over them, click one, it moves away, click , moves away, click, moves away and so on. Not sure what is the difficulty?
    Because when you don't have a stack of forests but instead have four or five different types of lands, like many, if not most decks do, clicking on them is a godamned nightmare game of fruit ninja.

  17. #37
    Here I Rule!!!!!!!!!!
    Phoenix Ignition's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2008
    Location

    Minneapolis MN
    Posts

    2,380

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Because when you don't have a stack of forests but instead have four or five different types of lands, like many, if not most decks do, clicking on them is a godamned nightmare game of fruit ninja.
    This is being really blown out of proportion. Your stack of untapped lands moves after you tap a land sometimes. They move once, then you click on them wherever they are. I'm all for shitting on random stuff in Arena, but lets not pick one that a 5 year old could figure out.

    The economy is terrible. One of the most fun things to do if you are a budget player is build a deck surrounding some stupid mythic rare that is 50 cents and then go 2-2 at a tournament with it, but Arena's mythics-all-cost-the-same economy is the worst thing in the world for that. It penalizes people in multiple ways for trying to innovate or do creative-but-bad things. With only 1 daily quest that *sometimes* isn't requiring you to win, the bulk of the system is rewarding people who win.

    While at first glance that seems fine, what it really does is incentivizes winning quickly and not obtaining a good win percentage. When this is the case, the best strategy is to play a super aggro deck that has a great curve and then mulligan + concede if you don't hit a great hand or win in the first 4 turns. Anyone playing 15+ minute games is just doing it wrong. If there's a ranking system that puts you up against players "of equivalent skill" that's even worse since it means I'd much rather play games against noobs and win 95% of them, then concede to keep my rating down. All of this minimizes the amount of time I have to grind the game so that then I can eventually build whatever deck I was hoping to.

  18. #38
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    6,762

    Re: MTG Arena

    Economy update

    I'm interested about the math behind this.

  19. #39
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    7,023

    Re: MTG Arena

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Economy update

    I'm interested about the math behind this.
    "Wizards estimates that the average player should be able to get around 10 packs per week by completing weekly and daily quests"

    I love how they assume you pretty much max out daily rewards (1,050 to 1,300 gold max) for 30 days in order to open the Vault ONCE PER MONTH and call that "average", especially as the daily rewards are often tied to wins, in a game which heavily favors P2P users. To add insult to injury, entering events COSTS GOLD OR PREMIUM CURRENCY.

    So you have to decide between buying boosters OR play events. Brilliant idea. *facepalm*
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  20. #40

    Re: MTG Arena

    That "nickle and dime" uneven gem buying levels...love it. Just blatant scumbaggery.

    750 Gems: $4.99
    1,600 Gems: $9.99
    3,400 Gems: $19.99
    9,200 Gems: $49.99
    20,000 Gems: $99.99

    600 Gems: 3 Packs (200 gems per pack, or about $1.33 per pack)
    1,200 Gems: 6 Packs
    3,000 Gems: 15 Packs
    9,000 Gems: 45 Packs
    18,000 Gems: 90 Packs
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I about died from laughter when I was watching my feature match and the commentators called Tinfins a difficult and challenging deck.

    I'm not saying it's the easiest deck to play, but the plan is so linear that I could probably get white girl wasted and still beat people with the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Imagine the trauma of a man who has seen Mom into Crusader enough to mainboard three Cabal Pits.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)