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Thread: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

  1. #601
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    @ Hollywood- I would love to see what you are noodling around with at this time. My main issue anymore is more space issue at this time. Karn just gives us so many great options. I have thought about upping the count to 4, but I think that would require a reworking of the mana base along with likely wanting the 4th Copter, which I am not sure there is room in the deck for that. I have debated removing the Lavaman, and placing Ballista in the board, but the board is also very tight right now.

    @Karn- Yes he shuts off the Mox and Lotus Petals and LED which helps to slow them down and makes Moon a basic lock for those lists. The more I play with Karn I see his power and how he can impact nearly every match up and that is even before we consider the Lattice lock as a solid win condition.


    Hopefully more to come soon as we continue testing...
    Seth
    Öno matter how much you think you love somebody, youíll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  2. #602

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    @ Hollywood- I would love to see what you are noodling around with at this time. My main issue anymore is more space issue at this time. Karn just gives us so many great options. I have thought about upping the count to 4, but I think that would require a reworking of the mana base along with likely wanting the 4th Copter, which I am not sure there is room in the deck for that. I have debated removing the Lavaman, and placing Ballista in the board, but the board is also very tight right now.

    @Karn- Yes he shuts off the Mox and Lotus Petals and LED which helps to slow them down and makes Moon a basic lock for those lists. The more I play with Karn I see his power and how he can impact nearly every match up and that is even before we consider the Lattice lock as a solid win condition.


    Hopefully more to come soon as we continue testing...
    Seth
    It's in flux so much. It's very difficult to build with Karn because the entire deck needs to be tailored to support him.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  3. #603
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    So, a couple thoughts on how the meta (at least MODO meta) seems to be heading. New Karn is EVERYWHERE right now. I don't see a ton of painter but it is huge in eldrazi post and new bomberman. That being the case, I think Blood Moon is going up in value. I also think we need to reconsider cratermaker in the main as an insurance policy for karn and I think we need to consider instant speed artifact removal (eg. Abrade) to hit opponent's lattice or other Karn wish targets. Blue decks are starting to play Hurkyl's Recall for the same reason. Right now the only thing we have is blast with painter in play and that just isn't going to be good enough a lot of times.

  4. #604
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Does Cratermaker beat Lattice + Karn? I think we're stuck with floating mana and casting Abrade or something of that ilk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
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  5. #605

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Does Cratermaker beat Lattice + Karn? I think we're stuck with floating mana and casting Abrade or something of that ilk.
    It's possible Phyrexian Revoker's stock would be on the rise in that case, since everyone is trying the 100s of planeswalkers they just printed.
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  6. #606
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Does Cratermaker beat Lattice + Karn? I think we're stuck with floating mana and casting Abrade or something of that ilk.
    Well, you can remove Karn in response to the Lattice being played. That's really not much different than floating mana to Abrade the Lattice once it's in play, just 1 mana more expensive. But also keep in mind that if Cratermaker is in play, it can still be used to attack Karn in the event of Lattice even if you have no mana to use at that moment.
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  7. #607

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    Iím wondering if liquimetal coating is worth playing with the new karn. At that point it might also be worth playing a dack faydon. I can imagine turning opposing libraries into dudes to pyroclasm.

    ...actually, itís probably too cute to be good. The new karn I can imagine being great for the deck. What I think we really need is a transformational sideboard plan, since most of the time, people saiding against a wish board assumes that the side has more of the same (artifacts in this case). Going into leyline+helm kill could catch them off guard, thinking that theyíd have more time to react.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I know there's two camps on this, but Liquimetal Coating has been absolutely disgusting in testing. It's allowed Karn to tick up to pick off lands, it turns into a 2/2, it enables Gorilla Shaman and Goblin Welder. It's just been so dynamic I'm shocked it's been as good as it is.

    This is the Shortcake version I'm referring to, by the way.
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  8. #608
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    I have to admit I am in the camp that does not feel Liquidmetal Coating is what we want to do. Maindeck is too tight to run in my own opinion and rarely can I think of a situation where it is my wish target of choice. Although I acknowledge that I think Hollywood is on a much different list than I am testing now. Are you still running Mom's in your list Hollywood?


    @Karn- I think we have a few options for dealing with opposing Karns. Blasts, Cratermaker, Abrade, or even possibly different vehicles. the real issue will be to see how the meta shakes out. It is likely that the current uses will not be the end uses for Karn after more people take a run at him. Shortcake and IPainter in general has always been a deck that preys on the meta and needs to make card and board choices to exploit that. With that in mind we likely need to wait and see what uses Karn ends up with and then we can use the best option for us. If I was guessing right now I would say it resolves around adding another blast and adding Cratermaker into the list again.

    Seth
    Öno matter how much you think you love somebody, youíll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  9. #609
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    I also don't think Liquidmetal Coating can fit in Shortcake. However

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Liquimetal Coating has been absolutely disgusting in testing. It's allowed Karn to tick up to pick off lands
    that sounds amazing for grindy matchups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  10. #610

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    I have to admit I am in the camp that does not feel Liquidmetal Coating is what we want to do. Maindeck is too tight to run in my own opinion and rarely can I think of a situation where it is my wish target of choice. Although I acknowledge that I think Hollywood is on a much different list than I am testing now. Are you still running Mom's in your list Hollywood?


    @Karn- I think we have a few options for dealing with opposing Karns. Blasts, Cratermaker, Abrade, or even possibly different vehicles. the real issue will be to see how the meta shakes out. It is likely that the current uses will not be the end uses for Karn after more people take a run at him. Shortcake and IPainter in general has always been a deck that preys on the meta and needs to make card and board choices to exploit that. With that in mind we likely need to wait and see what uses Karn ends up with and then we can use the best option for us. If I was guessing right now I would say it resolves around adding another blast and adding Cratermaker into the list again.

    Seth
    My Coating list eschews all of that and focuses on the strengths of Karn. Painter and company are actually secondary in my list; it's like a bastardized version that's basically like an attrition variant that happens to run Painter combo.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  11. #611
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    My Coating list eschews all of that and focuses on the strengths of Karn. Painter and company are actually secondary in my list; it's like a bastardized version that's basically like an attrition variant that happens to run Painter combo.
    Very interested to see the list after the event (I assume that's what you're holding out for). It makes sense to me that maybe run it alongside moon. Would be curious to know the # of coating. Also how the deck operates when a Karn isn't drawn or is answered. Maybe a full set of Abrade? Now you got everyone curious.
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  12. #612

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Alls Iím saying is give it a try. Iím serious when I say itís one of the best cards in the deck because it fills so many roles. I run two main and one in the board. Play one turn one or two or Shaman turn one or two basically wins you the game against grindy matchups and greedy keeps.

    Or T1 Coating into T2 Karn ices it. Additionally, T1 Shaman if you have the play punishes so many decks right now. I know itís risky, but from a deck building perspective Iíve enjoyed it more than hoping to get a T3 or 4 Cratermaker or Heretic (as one ofs) active. And Karn shuts down Chalice himself, so youíre already at like 6 cards to beat it.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  13. #613
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Sorry to spam but this is so awesome! Looking forward to trying some of this tech and a coming tournament report, Hollywood! Still looking for the Grixis Painter with Retrofitter Foundry report.. ;)

  14. #614
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    @ Hollywood- It def. sounds like your list has gone is a very different direction than us. I am def. interested in seeing it soon. I can see with Mox monkey that turning everything into an artifact may have upside. I think for Shortcake in general (ie no Mox Monkey) the Liquidmetal Coating is less stellar.

    I may try and run through a couple leagues this weekend to get further testing in. Also, does anyone want to test and have Grixis built on MTGO. It is the one match up that I want to really test more and I still continue to struggle to get paired up against it.

    Currently my focus is still working through the sequencing in general for the deck so I am only making minimal changes to the 75 cards. One of those changes will be dropping Lavaman completely. I feel that I have a fairly good understanding of how that card works in the deck. Now I need to test more pieces for that slot. I am unsure if Ballista will be in the board for the next round of testing as I also have a fairly good understanding of that cards impact. We need to get some more reps in with Cratermaker I feel along with a few others cards to try and gain a couple points against Dredge, Eldrazi, and potentially Stoneblade.

    I am also considering testing the 20th land/6th fast mana spot. Currently, I am thinking the second copy of LED, second copy of SSG, 4th City, or something else. I am tentative to test to many things at once as finding the signal from the noise can be difficult, but this is sort of where I am at.

    Keep painting boys, and free Ned Leeds

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  15. #615
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    I don't have any LEDs so I'm on the 4th Smuggler's Copter instead. I feel its been good to me so far, as this deck seems to topdeck poorly so I always always want Copter.

    I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with discard. Sometimes I have to keep a hand with only one or two strong cards and I just get shredded by discard. I'm dying for some card advantage. Anyone thinking of putting Karn, Scion of Urza back in the 75?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  16. #616
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    @ Mirrislegend- Discard can be rough for sure. The keys in that match up are Goblin Welder and then Karn. I am not sure why you would want the other Karn over the Great Creator. The Great Creator should be able to wish twice, giving you excellent value on the extra cards drawn. Copter and Welder should also serve as a great source of virtual CA in that match up. I think you will see that while they shred your hand, after turn 3 discard is fairly poor against you. It is at that time that our Recruiters, Welders, Copter, and Karn can really dominate. E tutor is also really helpful here. We are lucky that few decks running heavy discard have cards as powerful as Welder.

    Seth
    Öno matter how much you think you love somebody, youíll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  17. #617
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Yeah, welder and tutor are great against discard. Just try to leverage those cards in those matchups. I think I have the cards for grixis control so I can throw it together if you want.

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  18. #618
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    @ Mirrislegend- Discard can be rough for sure. The keys in that match up are Goblin Welder and then Karn. I am not sure why you would want the other Karn over the Great Creator. The Great Creator should be able to wish twice, giving you excellent value on the extra cards drawn. Copter and Welder should also serve as a great source of virtual CA in that match up. I think you will see that while they shred your hand, after turn 3 discard is fairly poor against you. It is at that time that our Recruiters, Welders, Copter, and Karn can really dominate. E tutor is also really helpful here. We are lucky that few decks running heavy discard have cards as powerful as Welder.
    Seth
    I was looking to run Karn Scion in addition to Great Creator. Especially because they have some synergy (Exile with silver counter can be grabbed by Great Creator). But I follow what you're saying.
    It's probable that I lost so badly vs 4 color control because I sideboarded wrong and kept stuff in hand (habits from playing creature combo in Modern) that I should have just slammed onto the field, even if unprotected.
    Still, I yearn for some straight card advantage in the mid- to late-game. Recruiter feels like a poor topdeck when Painter isn't threatening. I would go for Ichor Wellspring if we played 4 Welder. I don't have any other ideas.

    Also, I wonder if 4 color control is even harder than Grixis Control because they can play Goyf to apply pressure (if they skipped the Goyfs and tried to beat me down with Snapcasters, Strixes, or Leovold, then I probably would have had enough time to make a comeback).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  19. #619
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  20. #620

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Interesting 1 copter, seems a bit out of place. Funny to see you moved on to surgical as well :-).

    The direction seems interesting, since the meta seems to be shifting/jerking towards more artifacts/planeswalkers/karn.

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