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Thread: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

  1. #641

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Whatís the thought process behind Ratchet Bomb over Engineered Explosives here?

  2. #642

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Youíre expending two mana to blow up Chalice or tokens either way. Maybe Gaddock Teeg has some random applications, but overall, the mana investment in a two-color deck comes down to blowing up CMC=2 permanents with either.
    Last edited by Michael Keller; 05-12-2019 at 06:49 PM.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  3. #643

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Hey dudes, new Karn has brought me back from the dead, at least to play on MODO. Happy to be back, seems like a powerful tool for us. Does this group use a discord as well? If so, can someone shoot me an invite? Thanks!

  4. #644
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Youíre expending two mana to blow up Chalice or tokens either way. Maybe Gaddock Teeg has some random applications, but overall, the mana investment in a two-color deck comes down to blowing up CMC=2 permanents with either.

    Engineered Explosives has random upsides of its own, though: You can use sunburst to effectively get around Thalia, Guardian of Thraben's CC tax, and I've also cast it for 0 into a Chancellor of the Annex pre-game effect to be able to resolve my actual hate piece T1. Also, it's Goblin Welder fodder for 0 mana. (In other Painter lists, it's also recruitable via Trinket Mage.)

  5. #645
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by RingoDeathStarr View Post
    Hey dudes, new Karn has brought me back from the dead, at least to play on MODO. Happy to be back, seems like a powerful tool for us. Does this group use a discord as well? If so, can someone shoot me an invite? Thanks!
    Here you are: https://discord.gg/kyEHABS

  6. #646

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by colo View Post
    Engineered Explosives has random upsides of its own, though: You can use sunburst to effectively get around Thalia, Guardian of Thraben's CC tax, and I've also cast it for 0 into a Chancellor of the Annex pre-game effect to be able to resolve my actual hate piece T1. Also, it's Goblin Welder fodder for 0 mana. (In other Painter lists, it's also recruitable via Trinket Mage.)
    I'll give you that. However, a few things:

    1. Since Karn is in the deck as a four-of, there's really no reason to run it as a one-of in the main when it's easier to retrieve out of the sideboard. I know everyone's list is different, but I'm only running two Enlightened Tutor main so four Karn can nab it easier.

    2. I'll agree it's easier to get around Thalia's tax. However, under those circumstances, wouldn't it be better to grab an Ensnaring Bridge against Death and Taxes, in the event the opponent puts a Phyrexian Revoker into play? I guess it depends on how many creatures you run. If you can deplete your hand faster and have the ability to stop attacks with Bridge, that's probably better.

    3. As for Chancellor, I wouldn't play EE main in this list. Since you're playing with Simian Spirit Guide and Lotus Petals, I think the corner-case scenario where you'd use it to knock out that trigger would be extremely rare.

    4. It is Welder fodder for zero mana, sure.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  7. #647
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Have you found 20 lands + 4 one shot Mana sources to be enough? I get that flooding sucks, but I feel like it can be hard to cast Karn on time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  8. #648
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    @Megadeus:
    I think that's a common concern. I'm on 5x one-shot mana sources and Karn has come down reliably. On the other hand, I'm still on 4x Copter, so I can prep for him more reliably.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  9. #649

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Have you found 20 lands + 4 one shot Mana sources to be enough? I get that flooding sucks, but I feel like it can be hard to cast Karn on time.
    I haven't had any issues casting Karn. He doesn't need to be powered out turn two; with seven Sol lands that produce two mana each, he's a reliable turn-three play with twenty mana and four one-shot resources. I mean, you could theoretically add another land, which I've entertained over a third Petal, but I'm not sure yet.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  10. #650

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    I was on the fence about Copter. I think it belongs at minimum as a one-of, but Sword of War and Peace was just as good to protect creatures, punch in damage and gain some life. For me, it's flex. But I think one Copter is where I stand at the moment, since for two mana the investment with Shaman and Karn is better with Coating than tapping a creature and watching another get Bolted or Plowed.
    What about SoLaS? Gives life gain, protection from Plow/Push, and regrowth creatures that were countered/discarded/milled/looted.

  11. #651

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by L10 View Post
    What about SoLaS? Gives life gain, protection from Plow/Push, and regrowth creatures that were countered/discarded/milled/looted.
    I like War and Peace better right now because of how impactful it can be. To be able to gain protection from red (to punch through red creatures and gain life), Lightning Bolt, and protection from white with Swords to Plowshares and D/T creatures with additional damage, it swings the game more.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  12. #652

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    K.command is red, right? That really sells it for me. I seriously hate that card.

    Pro black can be relevant too I suppose, but some number of black removal are edict effects, and that goes around protection.

    I was testing sword of the meek and thopter foundry for a while, but thatís too slow, generally. The life gain isnít pointless, but itís not amazing either.


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    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  13. #653

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Yeah, thatís a bit of an investment. Both in deckbuilding and mana.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  14. #654

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Congrats on your recent nice finishes. I love the list. Liquimetal Coating seems really fun.

    A couple of card-choice questions.

    I was wondering about the Meekstone--has it been worth the slot in the SB in addition to Bridge? What match-ups did you have in mind for that one?

    Also--no Ballista in the 75? And the SB Surgicals--are those there (over additional T. Crypt or Relic) as a hedge against Reanimator or for exiling a shuffle creature (Emrakul)?

    I'm completely new to Painter, and sussing things out before I try it out soon.

  15. #655

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by shonenkakumei View Post
    I was wondering about the Meekstone--has it been worth the slot in the SB in addition to Bridge? What match-ups did you have in mind for that one?
    TNN and other huge creatures may come down, and catching them is important sometimes. Meekstone is phenomenally good against decks like UB Shadow and the like, just locking them down for one mana.

    Also--no Ballista in the 75? And the SB Surgicals--are those there (over additional T. Crypt or Relic) as a hedge against Reanimator or for exiling a shuffle creature (Emrakul)?
    Turn zero interaction is a must. Otherwise, oftentimes, you can just lose outright.

    Also not a fan of WB, but thatís just me.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  16. #656
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    @ Hollywood- Congrats on the recent successes. I have to say I do love Mox monkey in a vacuum, but I am still a little hesitant to go all in on that plan. I do think you should up the Copter count in general as its often our best first turn play still in the deck. The card continues to impress me, and to be honest the only reason I am not running 4 at the current moment is more due to space in the deck at this time. I know it dies to bolt but so does Monkey, and we cant discount the upside the card has. Filtering is huge, but it has continually been strong at removing planeswalkers and forcing removal, allowing our scarecrows and Welders to live longer.

    I was able to get in some testing this weekend, and the deck still feels really good. I will hopefully have some slow days at work this week and will be able to compose a better response and deck write up for the newest version of Shortcake. I have been slow to write up actual match ups and approaches, with sequencing bc there is so much we have been working on and figuring out. But at this time I feel like it may be helpful to share some of the early thoughts and findings with others to help move the testing along. With that in mind, please remember that much of this is in flux. Jack and I spoke for like an hour last night about small tweaks to the list, working to address the wish board, the fast mana counts, the potential 20th land, and some sideboard needs. I have finally come around to cutting Lavaman from the list in favor of Cratermaker. Jack is also correct in that we need Ballista in the board. These are very slight changes which will make D and T a push, slightly weaken the deck against Elves, while giving a small amount of upside against Show and Tell, while further strengthening us against various stompy shells and Eldrazi lists in general.

    Seth
    Öno matter how much you think you love somebody, youíll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  17. #657
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    I was able to get in some testing this weekend, and the deck still feels really good. I will hopefully have some slow days at work this week and will be able to compose a better response and deck write up for the newest version of Shortcake. I have been slow to write up actual match ups and approaches, with sequencing bc there is so much we have been working on and figuring out. But at this time I feel like it may be helpful to share some of the early thoughts and findings with others to help move the testing along. With that in mind, please remember that much of this is in flux. Jack and I spoke for like an hour last night about small tweaks to the list, working to address the wish board, the fast mana counts, the potential 20th land, and some sideboard needs. I have finally come around to cutting Lavaman from the list in favor of Cratermaker. Jack is also correct in that we need Ballista in the board. These are very slight changes which will make D and T a push, slightly weaken the deck against Elves, while giving a small amount of upside against Show and Tell, while further strengthening us against various stompy shells and Eldrazi lists in general.

    Seth
    So what 75 are you testing now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  18. #658
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    I played Michael Keller's list for a small FNM. Went 2-1, but most of the games felt very winnable.

    Round 1, lost 1-2 to Miracles. Game 1 I get stuck on lands at some point, I think I mulled to 6 here, my Copter and Servant gets Terminused and I run out of resources before Mentor kills me. Game 2, I mull again, but land turn 1 Karn off Tomb and two Petals. Since I can't realistically cast Lattice any time soon, I get Coating, my opponent Brainstorms, and when that resolves scoops. Game 3, I think I keep a decent 7, double Grindstone and a Karn. I play the Stones, hoping to bait a Force, but he has Needle and put it on them. Karn then gets Forced, but I resolve a Servant. Unfortunately, I am short on mana. He tries to StP the Painter, but I blast. When I try another Blast the Needle, he has Force again. I guess I should have let the Swords resolve, but I'm not sure I win in that case anyway.

    Round 2, 2-1 win vs. Goblins. Game 1, fast combo, turn 3. Game 2 goes long, I get a Karn but am short on mana, so I try for Bridge. He ends up drawing 3 things (including a Grudge) and basically I can't keep any Artifacts on the board. Game 3 I mull to an OK hand, end up using Karn for a Stone and winning when I top deck a SSG to play Painter, Stone and activate all in the same turn (3).

    Round 3, 2-0 vs. UB Tezz/ThopterSword. Game 1 I manage to get a Revoker on Tezz, AOB and my opponent has 2 in hand. He gets Topter and Sword plys Academy Ruins, but I get Karn which gets Forced. I draw a Bridge naturally and resolve it, then empty my hand. I end up winning the top-deck war with an eventual Painter and Grindstone. Game 2 he trun one locks me out with a Chalice on 1. Unfortunately for him, he never draws a blue source, and resolve Copter and Servant.

    I feel like maybe the deck does need one more land, not sure, small sample size and all. Otherwise, the deck felt very good. If the London Mulligan comes through, I might play this more often too. Mox Monkey definitely got some side-glances and a few laughs. Was definitely fun though.
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  19. #659
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Creatures

    4 Imperial Recruiters
    4 Painters Servant
    3 Goblin Welder
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Goblin Cratermaker
    1 SSG

    Spells

    4 Pyroblast
    2 REB
    3 Grindstone
    3 Smugglerís Copter
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    3 Karn, the Great Creator
    2 LED
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Blood Moon

    Mana

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    3 Mountain
    3 Plateau
    5 fetch lands
    1 Great Furnace
    4 Lotus Petal

    Sideboard


    3 Pyroclams
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 REB
    1 EE
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Lattice
    1 Grindstone
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Walking Ballista
    1 Tormodís Crypt
    1 Relic of Progentis
    1 Magus of the Moon

    I think that is a reasonable start. We have dropped some of the tutor targets from the board as we just didnít need them. The additional blast effect is for Miracles and Show and Tell. Ballista in the board is a way to maximize the wish board while creating space in the main deck. Cratermaker becomes our new swiss army knife which feels ok, giving us broad coverage while helping fight chalice while never being terrible. It is likely as the meta adjusts, we may need a proactive plan to fight Karns in the future. But that is something we will address when it comes up, but we should keep that in the back of our minds.

    The other thing of note is the additional LED. With Karn I have loved having the utility of LED. I am not sold on the card just yet but its such a powerful spell we should explore its full potential. The sixth fast mana/20th land slot is something that we are still very much testing at this point. Jack is testing a 2nd SSG, and there is sound reasoning behind its inclusion. I have found that the creature count is fine for crewing so far since we cut a copter and added Karn, but that concern along with the value of a body and a tuturable source of mana is something to consider.
    As mentioned above, I will try and draft better primer for the newish list. I will try to at least include some sideboarding approaches, along with at least a couple sentences about strategies for the various top decks. It is unlikely I will ever write up what hands to keep as that decision is very fluid and at such a high level I would likely capture it poorly in a post.

    Seth
    Öno matter how much you think you love somebody, youíll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  20. #660
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    What about a 4th Karn? I've heard various people say he overperforms for them constantly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

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  1. colo