LaL = Leave a Legacy? Isn't that in New England? Aren't you in the Midwest?Originally Posted by drude1
Both have 3 tutors available, both have 3 protection creatures. Not having to pay mana every turn for Bridge is a big reason to skip Peacekeeper. I think the most important item is to ask yourself WHY you're playing the card. For example, I'm playing Bridge to stop Death's Shadow, Gurmag Angler, Gristlebrand, Emrakul, Marit Lage, etc and hopefully flipped Delver and TNN. I have no expectations of Bridge stopping Baleful Strix, Snapcaster Mage, Thalia, etc. If you want to be stopping all attackers, go with Peacekeeper. If you don't need 1 card to hold back all armies, Bridge's lack of upkeep makes it much better than Peacekeeper IMO. Not having to pay mana every turn for Bridge is a big reason to skip Peacekeeper.
3Sphere is good but hurts us just as much as it hurts them. Canonist is effectively asymmetrical (except for Light Up the Stage). So I vote for Canonist.[/quote]
No Pyroclasm? I don't think that's correct. But that's up to you. Among the options that you presented, at least 1 Abrade. It is just so good. Other than that, go with your preference.
Why Sphere of Law over Warmth? I think between 3x Mom and 3x Welder your Painters should be safer than anyone else's! Also, at 4cmc, Sphere seems slow. ...Now I need to find a Warmth and a SB slot for it.
What matchups is Jitte for, other than Burn?
Slaughter Games / Lost Legacy are good, but slow and color intensive.
I would say yes to Blasts in the SB.
Referring to the art on Stasis:
For the most part I agree. Again though, lot's of creature removal floating around. 3sphere would be good against low-to-the-ground cantrip decks like burn or U/R delver. Vote's not in on this one yetLaL = Leave a Legacy? Isn't that in New England? Aren't you in the Midwest?
Yeah, but we will be in Boston for a vacation with the family. Thought it would be a good opportunity to meet the legend Jerry Mee
Both have 3 tutors available, both have 3 protection creatures. Not having to pay mana every turn for Bridge is a big reason to skip Peacekeeper. I think the most important item is to ask yourself WHY you're playing the card. For example, I'm playing Bridge to stop Death's Shadow, Gurmag Angler, Gristlebrand, Emrakul, Marit Lage, etc and hopefully flipped Delver and TNN. I have no expectations of Bridge stopping Baleful Strix, Snapcaster Mage, Thalia, etc. If you want to be stopping all attackers, go with Peacekeeper. If you don't need 1 card to hold back all armies, Bridge's lack of upkeep makes it much better than Peacekeeper IMO. Not having to pay mana every turn for Bridge is a big reason to skip Peacekeeper.
Yeah, Peacekeeper seems fragile. It just that with one of each you have 6 tutors to find that effect, not just 3. Still, there is a lot of creature removal floating around these days. I tend to agree with you on this one.
3Sphere is good but hurts us just as much as it hurts them. Canonist is effectively asymmetrical (except for Light Up the Stage). So I vote for Canonist.
No Pyroclasm? I don't think that's correct. But that's up to you. Among the options that you presented, at least 1 Abrade. It is just so good. Other than that, go with your preference.
So I do have a cratermaker and 2 x Daretti in the main for artifact (and creature) removal already, so the artifact removal isn't quite as important on abrade. I like dead/gone because it bounces things like Marit Lage tokens or other fatties (reanimator, etc). I like pyrite because of its recursive ability with welder. Pyroclasm is obviously good as well, but with so many 1 and 2 toughness creatures myself, I don't love it. I am splashing black so could play engineered plague or deluge (same problem) or dread of night (although that kills my own moms). I don't really want to have to play a BB spell like marsh casualties but it's a possibility as well.
Why Sphere of Law over Warmth? I think between 3x Mom and 3x Welder your Painters should be safer than anyone else's! Also, at 4cmc, Sphere seems slow. ...Now I need to find a Warmth and a SB slot for it.
What matchups is Jitte for, other than Burn?
Oh, sphere is oodles better than warmth due to goblins (and goblin tokens) and young pyromancer. With our mana acceleration, sphere is easily a turn 3 play.
Jitte would be good against other creature decks primarily, particularly death & taxes.
Slaughter Games / Lost Legacy are good, but slow and color intensive. Agree, although where I want this card is against other slow decks mostly, such as miracles and eldrazi post. If you can get Ulamog out of their deck, eldrazi post gets a lot easier.
I would say yes to Blasts in the SB.[/QUOTE]
If I could play 18 SB instead of 15, it would likely be 3 more blasts. As is, it's hard to find room. However, after this tourney I don't know that I would keep playing the chains. Just need 2 chains for this tourney, for obvious reasons (if you are a fan of the podcast).
Well I'll be there too! We'll have to meet up!
Referring to the art on Stasis:
So I've been slowly catching back up with the thread, figured I'd give some general opinions. For starters, light up the stage reminds me a lot of faithless looting. I know one is pure advantage vs discard/disadvantage but the function is similar, churn through the deck. I am just wondering if it is possible to fit and worth it. If we chop tutor, the single blood moon and bridge lose a lot of value. If you chop copter, you remove the best way to deal damage. I think you can fit it in, but I would probably go for more of a goodstuff type build so that you are always getting good value. Probably play some bolts as reach/removal and some more lavamancers. Basically a choose what axis you want to fight on. The Canonists and blasts are more of a stack based deck and aims to have serious game against fast combo and show and tell.
Anyways, I think all of that goes out the window because we'll have to reimagine the deck to work around this:
Karn, the Great Creator 4
Legendary Planeswalker - Karn
Activated abilities of artifacts your opponents control can't be activated.
[+1]: Until your next turn, up to one target noncreature artifact becomes an artifact creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost.
[-2]: You may choose an artifact card you own from outside the game or in exile, reveal that card and add it to your hand.
[5]
His static hits LED, Petal, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Expedition Map, Vial, All Equipment, Ballista, Explosives etc.
His plus one kills chalice, unequips equipment (right?) and can turn needle to a creature if we have something like ballista out. Also can crew copter without a creature and make Grindstone part of the beatdown haha
The -2 gets back artifacts from Surgical, Swords to Plowshares, Council's Judgement, Throught-Knot and whatever else and can also Burning Wish artifacts from the board.
Lattice in the board could be a turn 3 win, run a boarded helm with Leylines, side out the 4th grindstone type of shit. Also value bridges/ee's/needles/crypt etc
Probably the most insane walker we've ever had access to. May God have mercy on Vintage
Last edited by Kap'n Cook; 04-01-2019 at 10:55 PM.
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
Totally agree with Jack on the new Karn. Already testing new lists. Although what is lattice?
4-0'd my local FNM tonight beating Stryfo's dack fayden list 2-0, U/R delver 2-0, U/B Shadow 2-0 and that u/r storm list 2-1. Deck ran hot. 3 x mom and 3 x welder is hard for decks to deal with. Playing R/w/b with 20 land, 3 petal and 2 mox opal. Black is for 2 Daretti and nihil spellbomb main and a few different cards main.
Regarding light up the stage, I still think it's good. I'm really concentrating on getting the combo and protecting the combo ASAP. I will admit I tend to cut a couple of them against fast decks, but they are great against control decks or discard decks. I would definitely play them in a deck with the new Karn since we otherwise only have copter to find the Karn otherwise. I do still definitely like copter and its stock goes up more with the new Karn.
Anyway, playing in the LaL tourney this weekend. Jack, you on the east coast these days?
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
mycosynth lattice - like painter, but instead of colours, makes everything artefacts. so it deactivates moms and stone-forges.
Yea, i think moms are very good; i'd be tempted to find space for a fourth, since she can protect welders and painters. I've been kinda happy with how hannas custody has been for me though, but turning off being able to blow up opposing equipment has been problematic. I think i had a mirran crusader + jitte end my game quicker than i could handle it.
just curious, what else did you run that needed black outside of nihil spell bomb?
The point being, though, that it deactivates your opponent's lands, hence it being a hard lock that prevents your opponents from casting more spells assuming they don't already have mana open and an answer to either Karn or Lattice in hand, or enough of a board presence to get rid of your Karn. It's pretty cute in that it's a two card combo where the good half fetches the otherwise terrible half out of your sideboard. I mean, 10 mana is quite a bit, so I'd be tempted to play something like Grim Monolith to power it out if that were my main plan, but in general it could be a neat little plan B that takes very little added investment if you're already playing Karn.
In general I think I like Karn quite a bit. 4 mana is and remains 'not nothing', but being 4 colourless helps for obvious reasons, and the fact that his +1 crews the Copter along with killing Chalice is decent. Anyone know if it becomes a 2/2 or a 3/3? I lazily assume the former but also haven't thought about it at any great length.
I wonder if it'll allow/push the deck to move away from Enlightened Tutor? Although not finding Blood Moon is a strike against that, of course. There's some degree of anti-synergy between wanting silver bullets in the board to fetch with Karn and wanting silver bullets in the main to find with Enlightened Tutor.
I'm also not sure I agree that it makes me want to play more LutS to find Karn, because I think the Copter synergy makes me want to play more copters and Karn has the potential to find both halves of the combo. Of course, there's the tension between wanting to play 4 maindeck copies of your combo and having them available to wish for, and it's possible that playing 4 of both in the maindeck is still optimal, but I can certainly see testing 3 of each with one in the board to wish for, if you have enough Karns—say, 3 (or even 4? might be a little greedy).
Not sure what you refer to in your last question, if Karn targets a Chalice it becomes a 0/0 (clearly you were aware of this though), probably you wonder about what happens if Karn targets a Copter - it should become a 2/2.
Have you thought about playing Null Rod?
Dad jokes...
Referring to the art on Stasis:
Yup I'm around DC for the time being. I've been playing a lot of Old School recently in lieu of legacy. New Karn will probably change that as there will be so many things to test and try out
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
So are you going to make the drive to play in the Leaving a Legacy tourney this weekend?
Sounds like a couple of us will be there. And I'm coming from Minneapolis, so no excuses!
Where's that at?
All the details:
https://www.facebook.com/events/531-...5666705248923/
Referring to the art on Stasis:
Wow, lots has happened since I was away.
To address the beat down that Hollywood mentioned, that comes form the really early days of the deck. It was when Goblins and Lackey were tier 1. We routinely played 3 Figure of Destiny and the card was a house. That backed up by Magus of the Moon gave us an amazing beat down approach. Some early builds also had equipment in the maindeck. If memory serves me correctly, SoLS was the go to piece for us. Now this was over 7-8 years ago and by 2012 the creatures in legacy had taken such a leap forward that first turn Lackey wasn't very good and we transitioned to more Blood Moons main and this transitioned to the more combo/answer focus of the subsequent E tutor lists. I know I have some of these deck lists, but I also imagine they are on the original thread of Painter also.
I doubt I will ever be coming back to competitive legacy as the events and players in general just feel so brutal, but I still love the cards and the shitty 1/1 tutor with the white boarder we get to play. I had a great time last year reworking the deck and getting it back to respectability and reworking teh primer for this badboy. Its in that vein I doubt I will ever walk away form Painter.
With that said, the new Karn, has me more excited to brew than I was last year when I was working through the Smuggler's Copter/Lavaman/other dudes approach that ultimately lead to this thread. The new Karn seems to open up design and deck building on a level that we previously never had. On the surface we now have a wish for artifacts. Its a one sided null rod making our moon effects stronger against lands and storm combo. stops Aether Vial bull shit, while finally making Jitte and Batterskull fairly easy to combat. Its plus ability helps combat the STP, Snap, STP axis while also basically invalidating Surgical as a board strategy against us. He also is a swiss army knife approach to beating Chalice, while allowing the deck so many way to answer Pithing Needle.
I spoke with Jack yesterday and a bit this morning and the wish board is something that I want to really test moving forward. Answers like Bridge, Duplicant, Metamorph, Wurm Coil, Spellbomb, Bubble Matrix, Serrated Arrows, Helm, and Lattice are all cards that excel in some match ups but were sometimes to clunky to use in a singleton manner with only E tutor to find them. Karn's ability to tutor and still require an answer from the opponent is that I think will really help the deck. Much like Copter allowed us to attack Planeswalkers and the life total in ways previously lacking for us, Karn may open up new lines of play providing increased utility and reach for the deck while helping to address some of our nightmare match ups.
I already bought three and can not wait to start testing. Around playing old school that is.
Free Ned Leeds, Fuck Mark Rosewater,
Seth
…no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
Wonder if this clears the way for Ring of Ma’ruf!
I'm hyped for Karn too, but I don't have the same grasp on this deck as everyone else, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be with brewing. I'll leave that to the gurus.
I'm going to my first big event with Strawberry Shortcake this weekend. I'm pretty happy with my list but I'm open to feedback and definitely need some input:
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Goblin Welder
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mother of Runes
4 Grindstone
4 Lotus Petal
3 Smuggler's Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Light Up the Stage
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Plateau
3 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Great Furnace
SB:
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Manic Vandal
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Hanna's Custody
Deck construction choices:
- I'm purposefully low on Blood Moon effects. I think between B2B in Miracles and Dragon Stompy's recent success, the format has adapted such that Blood Moon is not impactful outside of target matchups. That having been said, the basic Plains allows me to pivot to the Blood Moon plan with ease.
- Cratermaker maindeck over Manic Vandal for utility and an expectation of Delver decks.
- Walking Ballista has never been good for me. It is durdly in the early game and I have yet to hit a situation in the late game where the pain from Ancient Tomb has been worth the Ballista buffs.
I need feedback on:
- Engineered Explosives: My fear of Chalice grows the more I play this deck. Without EE, I will never feel safe from the Chalice boogeyman. However, EE has been otherwise weak in my experience (which is pretty minimal tbh). Should I play EE? What should I cut for it?
- Sulfur Elemental: Sure, its good against D&T, but hitting those Monastery Mentor tokes from Miracles is the real deal. Is it worth trying to wedge it in when it has a fairly narrow use and can't be tutored for? If yes, where do I fit it?
- Pyroblast/REB: Does the split matter? Meddling Mage hasn't been a Legacy staple in years, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something else.
- Walking Ballista: I'm open to playing Ballista if people have strong arguments for it. It's very possible I've just been playing it wrong.
Other feedback welcome!
Referring to the art on Stasis:
With regard to REB/Pyro, the split is not just for Meddling Mage. Cabal Therapy and Surgical Extraction are pretty common, and splitting reduces the odds of getting blown out by them. The only reason not to split is if you’re leaning on Ensnaring Bridge, where you can randomly burn Pyro but not REB.
Also depending on what you’re expecting, moms can be amazing. I might try to convince you to go 2-3 main deck.
So based off that, if you’re likely to meet multiple problematic artifacts, it might be worth going with cratermaker and one other.
But most importantly, test the deck and feel what it wants to do, and tweak dependent upon how you want it to play. My shortcake has now gone the route of heavy stompy with the white only for canonist and 4 moms. But that fits me, and I wouldn’t imagine that everyone would like that either!
Like all punishing (as in hard to play) decks, shortcake rewards practice.
Disclaimer - I’m far from even an ok shortcake player! So keep my comments with a massive dose of salt.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer
Ah, that's what I was looking for!
Daaaaaamn that's a savage play that I didn't think of. I'll have to consider it.
I'm definitely open to a second Mom. Probably in the Magus of the Moon slot? Moon is effective against 4 out of the top 16 decks; 2 of which are heavy red, one is light red but heavy on creature removal, and the third can actually benefit from Moon (Dark Depths comes into play with zero counters with Blood Moon effect in play. If they kill Blood Moon effect, insta-Marit-Lage).
I'm playing Cratermaker main and Vandal in the SB. I think that's sufficient for the most part. But I'm not sure it will beat Chalice decks. Also, I want Hanna's Custody for Grixis Control, but many versions play a Pithing Needle in the SB. When Custody is in play (and Custody is for the Grixis Control matchup), EE answers Needle but Cratermaker and Vandal do not. Where would you fit EE in this 75?
Referring to the art on Stasis:
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote