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Thread: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

  1. #801

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    @Alex_UNLIMITED- Yes there is risk with the entomb of the Engineer. But there is also upside. Often times the match ups where you need the Bridge, the Engineer will be able to untap bc they either dont have removal, or hopefully spent it on your other threats as you should slow roll the Bridge in those match ups so that you are able to get maximum value from attacking. Also you have a copy in teh board with Karn, so we are effectively running many more copies of the card in teh main deck and side at this point. There is no room to run more Bridges in Shortcake. So if you are worried about the Engineer dying before he can weld in the Bridge, dont get a Bridge with his effect. In the end you only run one Bridge maindeck anyway. When you do grab it, you do so bc you are basically fucked without it and you need it now. Otherwise the Engineer should be garbiing more high value targets.
    I think I understand what do you mean. That's ok, only one Ensnaring Bridge in the maindeck seems enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    BLood Moon is still very strong against Miracles, even the UW variants. Its ability to help keep them off double blue while stopping shuffling is a nice effect that allows you to grind there.
    I think that that the problem is Teferi, Time Traveler, that's very good against Blood Moon. Do you keep Blood Moon in g2 against Miracles? If so, what do you prefer to side out?

  2. #802
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Yes I would def keep moon in on the play at least. Maybe on the draw I side it out. I mean Teferi isnt terrible to deal with, We have so many blasts and copter just punsihes that card. Per my previous post, I will be posting more indepth sideboarding approaches.

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  3. #803
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Blood Moon against Miracles is a weird card. I like to think of it as a way to steal one game in the match. If it takes game 1, I probably would take it out for games 2 and 3. If game 1 or game 2 you get the vibe that they are a dual heavy deck and weren't respect Blood Moon, you might be able to cheese out a postboard game with it on the play.


    I also put this together. Enjoy: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...e-Phantom-Meta
    Strawberry Shortcake

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake

    What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
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  4. #804
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Fantastic! Thank you!

    Regarding the new list:
    I'm surprised to see you back on 19 land. Were there problems with 20?
    Is trimming Canonist really wise given the resurgence of Xerox decks? Would 1 Engineer not suffice?

    Lastly, you didn't board-in/wish-for Ballista nor Engineered Explosives even once. What matchups are they for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  5. #805
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Fantastic! Thank you!

    Regarding the new list:
    I'm surprised to see you back on 19 land. Were there problems with 20?
    Is trimming Canonist really wise given the resurgence of Xerox decks? Would 1 Engineer not suffice?

    Lastly, you didn't board-in/wish-for Ballista nor Engineered Explosives even once. What matchups are they for?

    20 was only because the new mulligan rule isn't live yet. I did find myself flooding a decent amount, although it wasn't really the 20th lands fault.

    Canonist is bad in enough game 1s that going down to 1 copy to fit in another Engineer makes sense to start out. The list took some finagling because I still wanted at least 3 in the 75.

    I plan to cut explosives because it is only really there to sweep chalice, which Karn already does, and as a value wrath from the side, which I've almost never used.

    Ballista helps answer some weird board states and in general is just a good value guy, who can be cast anywhere along the curve. He overlaps with EE somewhat, and I'd rather keep the target that can close out the game with direct damage
    Strawberry Shortcake

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake

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    #FreeNedleeds

  6. #806
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Engineer seems to leave a very positive impression on everyone who has played him (I haven't had a chance to do so yet). What do you generally Entomb with him? I'm concerned about his tutor target getting hated away before/during activation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  7. #807

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Engineer seems to leave a very positive impression on everyone who has played him (I haven't had a chance to do so yet). What do you generally Entomb with him? I'm concerned about his tutor target getting hated away before/during activation.
    I guess it's a more all-in play style.

    I'm not sure it's earned its place in shortcake though. in imperial painter yes, probably, and definitely awesome in spaghetti.

    In terms of targets though, if your opponent isn't doing anything relevant yet, copter would be the go-to for me. Otherwise, it could be anything from bridge to coating (if you play that). It sorta depends on what you consider to be problematic (or going to become problematic), and how you wanna deal with it.

    I feel like engineer is better if you've already got an active welder though, especially if your opponent is threatening a grave hate.
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  8. #808
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    In terms of targets though, if your opponent isn't doing anything relevant yet, copter would be the go-to for me.
    That's the primary use that I foresee for it, which is one that I'm definitely happy with. I have many times topdecked a late game Recruiter and wished it could get a Copter! But that use really only requires 1 Engineer in the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    I feel like engineer is better if you've already got an active welder though, especially if your opponent is threatening a grave hate.
    Agreed. But how to reach that state? 4 Welder and 1 Engineer is obviously not right, so a 3/2 split makes sense. So, in my mind, Engineer definitely incentivizes getting Welder with Recruiter, which is not a sequence this deck usually wants.

    I'm definitely interested to hear the results of the play experience from Jack, rather than get stuck theorycrafting again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  9. #809
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Some random thoughts after testing post-Modern Horizons...

    1. Engineer is for real. I've been testing a 3/3 split with welder and engineer and it has been really good. Welder into engineer in particular is just ridiculous. It opens so many lines for the deck. Yes, there is a little risk with grabbing a one of out of the deck with engineer, but to sroncor's point not only do you have Karn to grab something like bridge, but you also have other welders, engineers and recruiters to go get your goblins. So your odds of getting something out of your graveyard is still much better than drawing the tutor. The redundancy of 6 welder effects is crazy good. I have had some learning-curve issues as I'm so used to welder that I was sometimes not counting the 1 red to use engineer when setting up my combo turn. That just takes more practice.

    2. I think anything less that 4 Karn is wrong. One reason I say that is because bomberman is one of the best decks in the format right now, and Karn just wrecks that deck. It's also very good against control match-ups (Miracles and grixis) and grixis is very popular. I also really like how our tutor package works around drawing cards so Narset isn't nearly as good against us vs other decks. Karn is just this 1 card win condition against so many decks. There are so many match-ups that are no-karn I lose vs karn I win, particularly grixis control. It makes surgical a minor speed bump at worst. It also really isn't that difficult to cast in this deck most of the time and I really want one in hand every game.

    3. I agree that bolt is probably where we want to be and am definitely on board with that change. It just answers so many problems that cards like pyroclasm just can't deal with, particularly with all the Planeswalkers seeing play now. Wren and Six is very popular and getting it off the board quickly is important. And obviously with the explosion of dreadhorde arcanist the extra one point of damage is pretty important.

    4. With engineer in the deck, there are a couple small adjustments I would consider making to the deck. For example, it might be that ratchet bomb is better than E.E. again. The fact that you can find it with engineer and tick it up or blow it up with just a tap are both good. It obviously can be a little slower at times, but in particular if you are playing it to get rid of things like chalice or a thousand goblins, it's quite good. Another change I would make is to get rid of ballista. I feel like I would really want something that I can get some use out of from the graveyard. I mentioned this earlier in the forum but I honestly still don't have an answer for a replacement. I do feel that revoker seems to be going up in value with all the planeswalkers getting played. I could also again see things like pyrite spellbomb, cursed scroll, liquimetal coating (?), or maybe even something like retrofitter foundry, although seems like a stretch. Would love to hear other ideas.

    5.For me, vote's still not in on Blood Moon. There are some times when it isn't that great, but others where I wish I was playing a playset, as blood moon on turn 1 is much different than blood moon on turn 3, particularly against lands, grixis, and any sort of depths combo. I was playing 3 Blood Moon for a while now and when it shines, it shines, but it can also be bad. It's probably right to be at 1 in the main though.

    Now here's where I really go off the deep end again...

    6. In lieu of cutting 2 Blood Moon in my list, I have been trying a 1 x Tangle Wire, and I've gotta say I kinda like it. It's relevant against nearly every deck in the format and since we are so permanent heavy, it allows you to set up turns where you tap down your opponent and then either have enough permanents to have it not effect you or you weld it out for something more important on your own turn. If you get more than one welder effect on the board you can shut your opponent down for multiple turns. It really feels like a weldable blood moon.
    Admittedly, my sample size is limited right now but it is something I will continue to test in the practice room at the very least.

    A couple other cards I'm also toying with...

    -Sunbaked Canyon - trying this as a one of. Gives us our colors and helps from being flooded. It's been...okay. Biggest concern is that the damage can start to add up with this and the tombs. So if this is your only color source of mana it can sometimes leave a mark. The nice thing is that it is an extra way to tutor for something and then draw it. Would definitely consider in the "20th land" spot.

    -dispeller's capsule - a recurring way to kill artifacts and enchantments. Close to making my sideboard but really depends on the meta. Mostly like it against needle effects. Not currently making the cut.

    -sunbeam spellbomb - might be okay tech against burn or U/R delver. 5 life a shot isn't bad. Having said that, I haven't seen much burn lately.

    If I were to play the deck in a larger tournament tomorrow, this would be my list....

    3 x welder
    1 x canonist
    3 x engineer
    3 x painter
    3 x recruiter (I know, blasphemy)
    1 x SSG

    1 x LED
    4 x petal
    3 x e.tutor
    3 x grindstone
    4 x pyroblast
    2 x REB
    3 x copter (would consider the 3rd copter as my flex spot and could see a cratermaker there)
    1 x blood moon
    1 x tangle wire
    1 x bridge
    4 x karn

    4 x tomb
    4 x fetch
    3 x city of traitors
    2 x great furnace
    3 x mountain
    2 x plateau
    1 x sunbaked canyon

    SB
    1 x painter
    1 x grindstone
    1 x LED
    1 x lattice
    1 x canonist (or maybe 3ball)
    1 x ratchet bomb
    1 x bridge
    1 x relic
    1 x tormod (considering replacing either this or relic with Grafdigger's cage, given the increased popularity of arcanist and the resurgence of elves)
    2 x surgical
    4 x bolt

  10. #810
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    @drude1: With 4 Karn, a land you might sacrifice, and that extra mana to play and to activate Engineer, I am certain that you need a 20th land.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  11. #811
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    @drude1: With 4 Karn, a land you might sacrifice, and that extra mana to play and to activate Engineer, I am certain that you need a 20th land.
    Until London mulligan kicks in you are probably correct.

  12. #812

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    I plan to cut explosives because it is only really there to sweep chalice, which Karn already does
    So why do you want to keep the Goblin Cratermaker in the maindeck?

  13. #813
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED View Post
    So why do you want to keep the Goblin Cratermaker in the maindeck?
    It kills opposing Karns.... And Emrakul.

  14. #814

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Why the 1/1 split between Relic and Crypt? I like playing two Crypts, one as wish target and the other as a tutor/engineer target vs. SnT.

  15. #815
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    No rest for the weary, Shortcakers. Now that you're done rebuilding after War of the Spork, it's time to rebuild again. This list with a 2 Goblin Engineer/3 Goblin Welder split 5-0'd a MTGO League.

    // 19 Lands
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Great Furnace
    3 Mountain
    2 Plateau
    2 Wooded Foothills

    // 16 Creatures
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Goblin Cratermaker
    2 Goblin Engineer
    3 Goblin Welder
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Painter's Servant
    1 Simian Spirit Guide

    // 12 Artifacts
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Grindstone
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Smuggler's Copter

    // 9 Instants
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast

    // 3 Planeswalkers
    3 Karn, the Great Creator

    // 1 Enchantment
    1 Blood Moon

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 1 Grindstone
    SB: 4 Lightning Bolt
    SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 1 Walking Ballista

  16. #816
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    No rest for the weary, Shortcakers. Now that you're done rebuilding after War of the Spork, it's time to rebuild again. This list with a 2 Goblin Engineer/3 Goblin Welder split 5-0'd a MTGO League.

    // 19 Lands
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Great Furnace
    3 Mountain
    2 Plateau
    2 Wooded Foothills

    // 16 Creatures
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Goblin Cratermaker
    2 Goblin Engineer
    3 Goblin Welder
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Painter's Servant
    1 Simian Spirit Guide

    // 12 Artifacts
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Grindstone
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Smuggler's Copter

    // 9 Instants
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast

    // 3 Planeswalkers
    3 Karn, the Great Creator

    // 1 Enchantment
    1 Blood Moon

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 1 Grindstone
    SB: 4 Lightning Bolt
    SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 1 Walking Ballista
    Yes that is the 75 jack and I have been testing online. I am not sure what your meaning is as we are actively testing

    Cratermaker is still there Bc he has upside. He still kills things on demand, can remove troublesome artifacts and serves as an answer to opposing Karn. We initially tried to cut him but in the end that utility was just something we need.

    Crypt be relic is based upon the different uses of the card. Relics ability to grind in some board states is really nice. We have talked about upping the crypt count to 2 so itís easily tutorable games 2 and 3.

    3/2 Welder Engineer split feels good so far. The power is good without making the gravehate risk too high.

    I am still not sold on 4 Karn in the list. While he is awesome, parts of our deck arenít designed to use him as a focal point of our approach. Now maybe we should consider that, but as Shortcake is constructed, that isnít where we are right now. It is likely that the mono red lists should go with 4 Karn, 4 Recruiter but they are all over the place at this time.

    New primer is coming. Hopefully work will be slow this week and Iíll start to be able to roll it out.

    Seth
    Öno matter how much you think you love somebody, youíll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  17. #817
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Is anyone else slightly worried about the lands matchup? It used to be Moon + Bridge was pretty much GG, but Force of vigor has me kind of worried. I guess the best way to combat it is painter on blue with blasts?
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  18. #818
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Is anyone else slightly worried about the lands matchup? It used to be Moon + Bridge was pretty much GG, but Force of vigor has me kind of worried. I guess the best way to combat it is painter on blue with blasts?
    That and Karn into lattice just wins. The other good news is that with engineer you can just combo off much faster. I would probably consider using tutors for combo pieces vs Blood Moon in post-SB games.

    OR TRY TANGLE WIRE!!!

  19. #819
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    I am not sure what your meaning is as we are actively testing
    Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I've seen you guys talk about how the list was already in flux after War of the Spork and Karn, and how you've been doing a lot of testing and reformulating the barely-settled list, with the addition of Goblin Engineer. Obviously the posted finish is a result of all that testing that's still going on, and it's the first finish I've seen for the new list.

  20. #820

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    Crypt be relic is based upon the different uses of the card. Relics ability to grind in some board states is really nice. We have talked about upping the crypt count to 2 so itís easily tutorable games 2 and 3.
    I don't understand. Relic of Progenitus is a good card in what situations? I have replaced it with a Faerie Macabre, that is tutorable on turn 1 with Imperial Recruiter.

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