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Thread: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

  1. #81
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Notched another 4-1 last night. Canonist continues to overperform, while Moon continues to be underwhelming. I had just posted about going to a 3-2 split and exploring that further, but I have flipped back and think having all 4 canonists is better right now. I did a little finagling of the numbers, leading me to this next version. Comments after.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Plateau
    1 Great Furnace
    2 Wooded Foothills
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Mountain

    4 Lotus Petal
    1 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Painter's Servant
    4 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Goblin Welder
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Viashino Heretic

    4 Grindstone
    4 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Blood Moon

    4 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Enlightened Tutor

    Sideboard:
    3 Blood Moon
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Goblin Welder
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Ensnaring Bridge/Peacekeeper
    2 Abrade
    2 Pyroclasm
    2 Karn, Scion of Urza


    White count: I only have 2 plateau right now, Seth is already running 3. If Wasteland pressure/Ghost quarter concerns turn out to be low, then I will certainly add the extra plateau. The canonsists also ease the creature count worries, lessening the need for Monkeys, hence the bump up to 4 petals. I moved EE to the board since we can't really find it if chalice is already in play, and while it is the best removal spell for random things that might pop up, it is actively bad a lot of the time. Heretic is slow, but still has favorable combat stats that lessen his drawback in non-artifact decks. That gave me the room to squeeze in the 6th blast, which will surely be great with the maxed canonists.

    For the board, the 2 karns are the flex spots for now. These otherwise would be my 3rd grave hate of some kind and the 7th blast or something along those lines. Other thoughts are that lavamancers die fast enough in the matchups you want him that the 3rd copy (vs ballista) is still pretty good. I have not yet tried the Ballista. The other ensnaring bridge might also become a peacekeeper for some interesting overlap between the two cards. I'm looking at RB reanimator as a horrible matchup and Dredge as not seen enough (despite it being crazy OP right now) that I am comfortable enough shaving the extra grave effect to get the other things like pyroclasm/abrade in. Seth is on the RIP/Helm package, which nicely overlaps into the walker/alt-win con/CA spots, and really shores up the random graveyard matchups. I think he is also testing out the 4th E-tutor, as that becomes much much better when all you really need to find is the 1-off Helm. Basically it becomes what do you want to hedge against. RIP/Helm covers probably all of the random shit you might encounter in legacy.


    Overall this is just a quick update but I really like how the list has taken shape and how much better it has been (compared to blood moons) vs the blue copy/paste environment we currently reside in. I would really encourage everyone to keep messing around with the 4 canonists main and look to power it out early to see how it fares. I'm still heavily in the collecting data realm, so outside opinions are certainly welcome and will help to bounce ideas around more.
    Strawberry Shortcake

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake

    What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
    #FreeNedleeds

  2. #82

    [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    What do you guys think of playing vial and mother of runes?
    Something like this?

    Creatures:24
    4 Goblin Welder
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Ethersworn Canonist
    4 Painter's Servant
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
    1 Magus of the Moon

    Spells:17
    4 AEther Vial
    4 Grindstone
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Smuggler's Copter

    Lands:19
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 Arid Mesa
    3 Mountain
    3 Plains
    2 Plateau
    4 Scalding Tarn

    A card that us really good with Canonist is Spellqueller. Iffy on splashing a third color though.

  3. #83
    Bob Ross
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Seems like a bad combination of DnT/Shortcake where you a) lack their prison elements b) lack our ability to find grindstone without enlightened tutors c) can't combo fast enough with the chopping of all fast mana and most sol lands
    Strawberry Shortcake

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake

    What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
    #FreeNedleeds

  4. #84
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Out of curiosity besides combo what matchups have you been finding canonist to be better than blood moon? Blood moon is kind of weird against both Grixis Delver and Czech Pile. If landed early you can usually buy yourself enough time to take over the game but sometimes they have draws which just beat the card.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  5. #85

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Took the version with 4 blood moons main to my LGS tonight. Fun time playing the deck but lost 3 of 4 rounds and had a round 3 bye. Played against some decks that I rarely play against so some sideboarding help with the matchups would be helpful. All in all I don’t think my board was really geared towards any of the matches I played.

    3 mountain
    3 plateau
    3 city of traitors
    3 arid Mesa
    2 scalding tarn
    4 ancient tomb
    1 great furnace

    4 painter’s servant
    4 imperial recruiter
    3 goblin welder
    2 grim lavamancer
    2 simian spirit guide
    1 ethersworn canonist
    1 viashino heretic

    4 smugglers copter
    4 grindstone
    4 pyroblast
    3 enlightened tutor
    1 red elemental blast
    1 ensnaring bridge
    3 lotus petals
    4 blood moon

    Sideboard:

    1 magus of the moon
    1 engineered explosives
    4 Rest In Peace
    1 helm of obedience
    2 abrade
    2 kozileks return
    2 ethersworn canonist
    1 duergar hedgemage

    Round 1: took game 1 vs turbo depths with fast combo via enlightened tutor. Games 2 and 3 he had early thoughtseizes and was able to Marit lage me before I could do anything worthwhile. I think I boarded in magus of the moon and a Rest In Peace and helm and took out A lavamancer, canonist, and heretic.

    Round 2: lost in 2 to Food chain with Emrakul. Boarded in the Rest In Peace helm combo and canonists. Blood moon wasn’t able to slow them down enough and in game 1 I drew lands for 4 straight turns.

    Round 3: bye

    Round 4: lost in 2 to Academy Rector and overwhelming splendor. And there was also an omniscience and emrakul in there. Pretty interesting deck. The only blue card was omniscience that I saw and no islands. Lots of basics. Game 1 we both have really slow hands and he is able to get an overwhelming splendor into play. I wasn’t sure about how that interacts with painter since the new rule change. Did we get nerfed on that too? Judge call said that I don’t get to choose a color, which kinda sucked because I could end of turn enlightened tutor for painter and I had a blast in hand while he was tapped out. Wizards must really hate our deck. First the top ban, then the blood moon rule change and the painter rule change (if that is correct). Anyway, I scooped to the splendor as I had to way to remove it. Game 2 goes pretty long to. He blows up most of the board with pernicious deed and I am able to get him reasonably low life. He cabal therapies naming helm of obedience in the dark. (Maybe I need to conceal my cards better) next turn would have drawn Rest In Peace with enough mana to cast and activate helm. He is able to sac his rector and get an omniscience into play and cast emrakul.

    My record online is decent. Probably just need more practice with playing in paper. There was another shortcake player there who did alright. He went with the 4 maindeck canonists. Maybe he’ll share his experience with it on here. I don’t know how I feel about the canonists over blood moon. I don’t think it would have helped me that much in many of my matchups except the food chain one. Still open to it though. Excited for the new Karn as well. Think I’m going to try him out in the maindeck though to start maybe cutting a blood moon and/or lavamancer welder or copter.

  6. #86

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Seems like a bad combination of DnT/Shortcake where you a) lack their prison elements b) lack our ability to find grindstone without enlightened tutors c) can't combo fast enough with the chopping of all fast mana and most sol lands
    That is probably true.
    My thought was that pre board mother is pretty good at protecting painter, leaving your blasts to kill lands and what not. The deck theoretically grinds well with Jaya which can be tutored for. I think I'm gonna test it anyway. :)

  7. #87

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    So I was able to set up a stream on twitch using xsplit. I got the basics down but I am terrible and doing stuff like this so don’t expect anything fancy. The fanciest I get is having a scrolling “Strawberry Shortcake” on the bottom which I can’t figure out how to change the color of. Gonna hopefully start streaming pretty often but not necessarily leagues. I do a lot of the tournament practice. Username is HeyClutch.

  8. #88
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    The card that I'm really impressed by is smugglers copter. I'll be honest I thought it would be jank but I bit the bullet and started playing 4 copies. That card puts in work! It gives us another dimension to lean on, and got me thinking. I'm a long time mono-red sneak/breach player. And if there is one thing I've learned it's that the real lynch pin of that deck is actually inferno titan. Your opponent is on the defense with all of their disruption trying to stop your combo, however after a few turns and sol lands later you can usually hard-cast inferno titan for the win. Inferno Titan has won me so many games with big red, and I'm looking at Shortcake's mana base and i'm thinking to myself why not just run a few just for fun as a powerful alt-con. If you get an early copter down and can apply some life pressure, once a titan comes down that's nearly gg even without the mill combo. Current list:

    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Grindstone
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Smuggler's Copter

    4 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Goblin Welder
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    2 Inferno Titan
    4 Painter's Servant
    1 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Viashino Heretic

    1 Blood Moon
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Pyroblast

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Plateau
    4 Mountain
    3 Arid Mesa
    1 Plains
    1 Great Furnace

    ---
    Sb (still raw):

    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Tormond's Crypt
    1 Orcish Settlers
    3 Blood Moon
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Abrade
    1 Disenchant
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Kozilek's Return

  9. #89
    Bob Ross
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Out of curiosity besides combo what matchups have you been finding canonist to be better than blood moon? Blood moon is kind of weird against both Grixis Delver and Czech Pile. If landed early you can usually buy yourself enough time to take over the game but sometimes they have draws which just beat the card.

    At this point any deck with blue I would probably rather be operating with a Canonist in play vs a Blood Moon in play. Corner cases aside, unless we are jamming out the Turn 1 Moon, Canonist has just been better, acting as a pseudo silence and just a general nuisance that has to be removed. There have been a bunch of times now where I land a moon and Deathrite just fuels Pyromancer chains through it, makes 1 black for an angler/k-command, or just doesn't even care and they force my relevant follow up play and then we're way behind. Grixis is just too well positioned against Blood Moon after turn 1 to justify running a 'less than all-in' moon plan like Shortcake has been doing. That said, of course Blood Moon is a very powerful card to have access to, it has just felt nicer being able to go tutor it whenever it will do the most damage vs drawing extra dead copies. That's the other part where Canonist has been better, it's better in multiples.

    Got my Karns online last night, took my list from above for a test drive. Beat ANT, Death and Taxes, Eldrazi, and something else that I can't remember right now. Only loss was to red stompy in three games. Game 1 I kept a painter, stone, mountain, ssg, double blast hand and never drew another mana source. Game 2 I opened on T1 Copter T2 Karn to his turn 1 chalice. He scooped after my plus 1 on turn 3 revealed Heretic and Pyroclasm. Game 3 was tragic as well. I managed to blast away a chandra after he abraded my grindstone, leaving him on 2 mountains and 1 card in hand. He topdecks a chalice while my hand is e-tutor, welder, lavaman, blast and I am unable to dig out. The Death and Taxes games were literally insane. Games 2 and 3 I think went 20+ turns each. Pyroclasm was the only reason I was able to stay in the match, and was still castable through double port+thalia. Copter managed to close out the game over 4 turns against a Karakas-Thalia after my grindstones were surgicaled. Eldrazi was standard and still seems like an insanely good matchup, as both Painter and Moon completely screw up their mana, and Copter has actually made the matchup better than it was with top. ANT has been a bye so far, as Canonist game 1 is a hard lock. I still can't remember what my 5th match was, but either way, the 5-0 is only a matter of time now, as that's back to back 4-1's.

    edit: didn't see the inferno titan post. I agree it is a bomb and maybe it could be good although I think the mana would have to be reworked towards chrome mox or something. An issue I'm sure that we could run into though is that 6 mana is surprisingly a lot for our deck, even though we are running sol lands. Furthermore, and this is a big reason I am hyped on karn, is that for these cards (4+ mana walkers/bombs/whatever you want to call them) we often want to use a blast to get them to resolve through countermagic. Getting triple red (and 5 mana) for something like Chandra or Koth has always been a little difficult. Even getting double red for Jaya at 3 mana was sometimes an issue. With Karn, having to only get one red mana for the blast should be very doable. For Inferno titan, we're now up to 7 mana and triple red if we want the blast as well. I think it might just be too high priced to have a consistent impact vs the red blasts you cut.
    Strawberry Shortcake

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake

    What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
    #FreeNedleeds

  10. #90
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Wow some great stuff guys.

    Thanks for the info about streaming. I will try some stuff over the next couple days. I will have to be doing a bunch of traveling for work over the next couple months I think so that may mean lost of nights in hotel rooms, so it would be ideal for trying out leagues during those times. So I will hopefully be able to stream weekly at least, at least that is my hope.

    I would say in a vacuum, my sideboard probably isn't what you want to be doing. I fully accept that I have been playing Vintage too much and probably fear Dredge more than anyone else. (But can anyone tell why that deck isn't played more in the current meta? DRS and Surgical just seem liks shitty answers to what that deck is doing)

    I would love for a Titan to be playable but the double red may be tough. Wurm coil is probably just stronger if you really want a high end finisher.

    Jack I am happy to see that Karn was viable. I do think the card has some value in the deck. It is funny that your game was basically living the dream of the potential of the deck with Karn. I feel that hand beats most of teh meta not called Tendrils or Show and Tell.

    Seth
    …no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  11. #91

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Notched another 4-1 last night. Canonist continues to overperform, while Moon continues to be underwhelming. I had just posted about going to a 3-2 split and exploring that further, but I have flipped back and think having all 4 canonists is better right now. I did a little finagling of the numbers, leading me to this next version. Comments after.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Plateau
    1 Great Furnace
    2 Wooded Foothills
    3 Arid Mesa
    3 Mountain
    1 Plain

    4 Lotus Petal
    1 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Painter's Servant
    4 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Goblin Welder
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Viashino Heretic

    4 Grindstone
    4 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Blood Moon

    4 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Enlightened Tutor

    Sideboard:
    3 Blood Moon
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Rest in Peace
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Goblin Welder
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Abrade
    2 Pyroclasm
    2 Karn, Scion of Urza
    I am playing your list with some change. I don't know if it's better to put 3 plateau and keep 4 mountains.
    I confirme i am playing your list on MTGO and i am really enjoy to play it ! I played vs fairedeck and it's fine.

    As i said earlier, i am going to Birmingham. I will try to make a side table. I will ask for your help to validate it.

  12. #92
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanhur View Post
    I am playing your list with some change. I don't know if it's better to put 3 plateau and keep 4 mountains.
    I confirme i am playing your list on MTGO and i am really enjoy to play it ! I played vs fairedeck and it's fine.

    As i said earlier, i am going to Birmingham. I will try to make a side table. I will ask for your help to validate it.
    I've been running 3 mountain, 1 plains, 4 mesa, 2 plateau and I haven't run into any issues getting the mana I needed. Being able to fetch up a plains has actually been a big help against wasteland for me. The rest of my list is exactly what Jack posted
    except for a few sideboard tweaks and it's been running really well for me. One thing I did notice it's that most games are getting very grindy and frequently go to time or very close to time. I feel like playing this kind of magic could be very mentally taxing at a large event.

  13. #93

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    I have been loving having the leyline Rest In Peace combo in the board however I feel that RIP is really slow verse B/R reanimator. I’m usually fine game 2 on the play but it’s just too slow on the draw and if you can’t power it out with fast mana early. Has anyone tried leyline of the void? When I was on dragon stompy I would just mull til I pretty much found it. We can still play a copy of Rest In Peace in the board along with the 4 leylines.

    Did three leagues recently going 3-2, 3-2, and 2-3. The first 3-2 was using the 4 blood moons main. The 3-2 and 2-3 were both using 4 maindeck canonists. I’ve noticed that the lands match up is not nearly as good as it used to be. Ghost quarter can be a real pain if they get the loam engine going. I managed to take that round through timely blasts with painter out and one win with the combo the other with damage.

    Gonna maybe give the leylines a try in my next league so my board will probably look like

    4 leylines
    1 Rest In Peace
    1 helm of obedience
    2 abrade
    2 kozileks return
    2 pyroclasm
    2 ethersworn canonist
    1 surgical/ 6th red blast.

  14. #94

    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    I am not really sure but this is my first idea, Can you help me? tell me if i am wrong or right thanks!

    Match UP IN / OUT

    Grixis Delver +1EE, +1 Grim, +2 Pyroclasm, +2 Karn -4 lotus Petal, -1 Grindstone, -1Viashino

    Death and Taxes +1EE, +1 Grim, +2 Pyroclasm, +1 Bridge, +1 Abrade (+2 karn?) -4 Lotus Petal, -2 Canonist, (-2 canonist for karn)

    Dragon Stompy +2 Karn, +1 EE, +1 welder, +1 abdrade, +2pyroclasm ? -4 Lotus Petal, -1 Canonist, -2 REB

    Bug Delver +3 Moon, +2 Karn, +1 grim -4 lotus petal, ???

    Eldrazi +3 Moon, +1 EE, +1 Abrade, +1Bridge -4 Canonist, -2 lotus Petal

    Ur Delver +1 Abrade, +2 Karn, +1EE -1 Moon, -2 Welder, -1 Grim

    Burn +2 Karn, +1 EE -1 Moon, -1Bridge, -1 Reb

    4C control +3 Moon, +2 Karn, +1EE, +1Grim, +1 Welder -4 Lotus petal, -1 bridge, -1 viashino, -2 grindstone

    Miracle +2 karn, +1EE, +1 grim -4 lotus petal

    Uw stoneblade +2 karn, +1EE, +1 Abrade -4 Lotus Petal

    Lands +3 Moon, +2 RIP, +1Tormod’s, +2 Karn, +1Bridge -4 Lotus Petal, -2 Reb, -3 Canonist

    Bug Control +3 Moon, +2 Karn, +1EE, +1Grim, +1 Welder -4 Lotus petal, -1 bridge, -1 viashino, -2 grindstone

    Storm +2 Rip, +1 Tormod’s -1 Moon, -1 Bridge, -1 Viashino

    Elves +2 Pyroclasm, +1 Abrade, +1 EE, +1Bridge, +1 grim -2 Reb, -1 Moon, -1 Viashino, -2 Copter

    Dark dept +1 Bridge, +3 Moon ???

    Show and tell +1 Bridge, +1 Rip, +1Tormod’s -1 Moon, -1 Viashino, -1 Welder

    Br reanimator +1 Tormod’s, +2 Rip, +1 Bridge -1 Moon, -2 copter

    Infect +1 Grim, +1 EE, +1 Abrade, +3 Moon -1 Bridge, -2 welder, -1viashino, -2 Petal

    Dredge +2 RIP, +1 Tormod’s, +1Bridge -1Moon, -1 Viashino, -2 Canonist

  15. #95
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by SDBobPlissken View Post
    I have been loving having the leyline Rest In Peace combo in the board however I feel that RIP is really slow verse B/R reanimator. I’m usually fine game 2 on the play but it’s just too slow on the draw and if you can’t power it out with fast mana early. Has anyone tried leyline of the void? When I was on dragon stompy I would just mull til I pretty much found it. We can still play a copy of Rest In Peace in the board along with the 4 leylines.

    Did three leagues recently going 3-2, 3-2, and 2-3. The first 3-2 was using the 4 blood moons main. The 3-2 and 2-3 were both using 4 maindeck canonists. I’ve noticed that the lands match up is not nearly as good as it used to be. Ghost quarter can be a real pain if they get the loam engine going. I managed to take that round through timely blasts with painter out and one win with the combo the other with damage.

    Gonna maybe give the leylines a try in my next league so my board will probably look like

    4 leylines
    1 Rest In Peace
    1 helm of obedience
    2 abrade
    2 kozileks return
    2 pyroclasm
    2 ethersworn canonist
    1 surgical/ 6th red blast.
    Although I again really like the increase canonist count, I have to agree with SDBob that cutting that low on blood moon has hurt a couple of MUs, particularly lands, turbo-depths, and eldrazi. So the only reason I would advocate a 3/2 split over a 4/1 split is that all of our tutors find canonist. So we essentially have 11 copies of canonist in the deck when running all 4 and only 4 copies moon. Against something like eldrazi, where e.tutors are doing a lot of work trying to find both moons and bridges, the more moons the better. Also, I'm still seeing a decent amount of 4 color Leo and blood moon is basically game over if you can get it to land early enough. I have also been running one main deck plains given the increased white demand.

    Re: leylines, if you REALLY like the helm combo then I think it's a good idea. Personally, I don't like running leylines if I can't ever cast them from my hand. Personally, I gave up on that plan in this deck and run 1 Rip, 2 containment priest and 2 surgicals.

    This deck has legs again. It's been fun.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  16. #96
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Picked up the old girl tonight and went for a spin in the copter.

    Felt good. Went 3-1, nearly 4-0 if I had 1 more card...no games were won by blood moon.

    Copter did feel like the real deal, on each front. Makes welder feel great. It's like a good faithless looting, that card we always wanted to but couldn't play.

    I didn't play Chandra and I wouldn't. Without the redundant bridges the deck feels like painter did back in 2012 before bridge became more standard.

    Good work guys. Keep it up.

    Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

  17. #97
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    @Cyanhur - I am not sure I agree with a bunch of those choices. In most cases you keep most of not all the Lotus Petals in the deck. In the grindy match up having a high artifact count is really important to ensure maximum value from Welder.

    I think over the next week it may be possible to have a more hard and fast side boarding plan as I think the deck is rounding into shape at this point. That is on my list of things to work on at this time.

    With respect to the BR reanimator lists, I was talking with Jack about them. I am not sure how best to approach them or just ignore them and hope for the best. Typically I have found myself losing game 1, winning game 2, and losing game 3. The issue is that they are fairly consistent and fast and they can fairly easily assemble the combo turn one on the play, even easier since by game 3 they know you do not have FoW. Macabre, Surgical, or Leyline are really the only way to interact with that. Of those options, Surgical is probably the best. Surgical also can work against Eldrazi shuffling effects which is nice. Leyline would serve a similar role, but mulling till it is in hand seems like a dicey situation. Surgical doesn't really work against Dredge, but has some utility against the various land variants. I think deciding on the gravehate is a critical thing that we need to address, I am just not sure the best answer at this time. Another alternative may be that our best hope is grave hate mixed with bridge effects as that at least gives us some outs on the draw, although I acknowledge they aren't great.

    Thoughts?

    Seth
    …no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  18. #98
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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    @Cyanhur - I am not sure I agree with a bunch of those choices. In most cases you keep most of not all the Lotus Petals in the deck. In the grindy match up having a high artifact count is really important to ensure maximum value from Welder.

    I think over the next week it may be possible to have a more hard and fast side boarding plan as I think the deck is rounding into shape at this point. That is on my list of things to work on at this time.

    With respect to the BR reanimator lists, I was talking with Jack about them. I am not sure how best to approach them or just ignore them and hope for the best. Typically I have found myself losing game 1, winning game 2, and losing game 3. The issue is that they are fairly consistent and fast and they can fairly easily assemble the combo turn one on the play, even easier since by game 3 they know you do not have FoW. Macabre, Surgical, or Leyline are really the only way to interact with that. Of those options, Surgical is probably the best. Surgical also can work against Eldrazi shuffling effects which is nice. Leyline would serve a similar role, but mulling till it is in hand seems like a dicey situation. Surgical doesn't really work against Dredge, but has some utility against the various land variants. I think deciding on the gravehate is a critical thing that we need to address, I am just not sure the best answer at this time. Another alternative may be that our best hope is grave hate mixed with bridge effects as that at least gives us some outs on the draw, although I acknowledge they aren't great.

    Thoughts?

    Seth
    Regarding grave hate, I think having a maindeck Relic of Progenitus is worth considering. It gives you an option against dredge/reanimator game 1, it allows you to grindstone win against S&T and eldrazi, it has some utility against decks that want to cast gurmag angler and use DRS, it also has some utility against lands/maverick/other decks getting utility from the graveyard, and in any matchup where it's dead it can draw you a new card. Obviously games 2 and 3 it's not as good as the other options against super fast reanimator decks.

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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by NormalGuy View Post
    Regarding grave hate, I think having a maindeck Relic of Progenitus is worth considering. It gives you an option against dredge/reanimator game 1, it allows you to grindstone win against S&T and eldrazi, it has some utility against decks that want to cast gurmag angler and use DRS, it also has some utility against lands/maverick/other decks getting utility from the graveyard, and in any matchup where it's dead it can draw you a new card. Obviously games 2 and 3 it's not as good as the other options against super fast reanimator decks.
    This deck is already super favored against dredge, this is not even talking about the welder + crypt things you can do in postboard games. Br Reanimator is always going to be a matchup about having turn 1 interaction, relic is like the worst type of interaction you can have against them if you don't have it + fast mana you're kind of boned. I think it's fine to have something like that in as a value target since yard hate that also cantrips is at a premium these days, just don't rely on it to win matchups like Br Reanimator. Imo if you want to have game against Br reanimator you absolutely need to start your list off with 2+ surgicals (or some other turn 0 hate) alongside other graveyard hate. If they get a griselbrand into play turn 1 and you don't have anything you may as well concede the game because you're probably not winning.

    Quote Originally Posted by sroncor1 View Post
    @Cyanhur - I am not sure I agree with a bunch of those choices. In most cases you keep most of not all the Lotus Petals in the deck. In the grindy match up having a high artifact count is really important to ensure maximum value from Welder.
    Yeah what's up with folks cutting welder against BUG decks, that card is basically a red planeswalker against those archetypes.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

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    Re: [Deck] Strawberry Shortcake

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    This deck is already super favored against dredge, this is not even talking about the welder + crypt things you can do in postboard games. Br Reanimator is always going to be a matchup about having turn 1 interaction, relic is like the worst type of interaction you can have against them if you don't have it + fast mana you're kind of boned. I think it's fine to have something like that in as a value target since yard hate that also cantrips is at a premium these days, just don't rely on it to win matchups like Br Reanimator. Imo if you want to have game against Br reanimator you absolutely need to start your list off with 2+ surgicals (or some other turn 0 hate) alongside other graveyard hate. If they get a griselbrand into play turn 1 and you don't have anything you may as well concede the game because you're probably not winning.
    I agree with everything you said. Admittedly I've never played against dredge with this deck, I just brought it up because seth mentioned it. My point was to have relic as a 1-of in the main deck so you at least have some tutorable options pre-board that isn't a dead card. For games 2 and 3 we should shift to some other strategy.

    If they get a griselbrand down you can go for relic + ensnaring bridge to stop them from being able to reanimate tidespout tyrant for example.

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