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Thread: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

  1. #241

    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    I didn't realize we had a shared spreadsheet, I'll definitely add my matches going forward!

  2. #242
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    I went 3-1 at the CK weekly again, beating Wizard tribal, Punishing Czech x2, and losing to white Aluren. I updated the spreadsheet, but man that took way longer than I expected. Not sure I'll go into that much detail again.

    So far the only decks I'm afraid to see are decks with Chalice and Leyline of the Void (Moon / Steel Stompy), a great Miracles pilot, and regular Czech pile (although I'm positive so far, the combination of DRS, Hymn, and Leo is brutal).
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  3. #243

    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    Once again, this is a very limited pool of data, so don't take these numbers as gospel, as I'm certain there's a fair number of people who opt to not report their events if they did poorly.
    If just matchups and results are okay (no die roll etc), I'll dig out my notes from EU Eternal Weekend and bring the numbers back down!

  4. #244
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    I went 3-1 at the CK weekly again, beating Wizard tribal, Punishing Czech x2, and losing to white Aluren. I updated the spreadsheet, but man that took way longer than I expected. Not sure I'll go into that much detail again.
    As long as you fill out your Results and what games you won, I could care less about the SB info. Bonus points for mulligans and dice rolls. Because I've been fiddling with the data in Tableau and the stuff I care about are the more quantifiable info (Wins, losses, combo turns, mulligans, dice rolls), and the notes/sb stuff is maybe less relevant beyond wanting data to figure out what works to make a SB guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    So far the only decks I'm afraid to see are decks with Chalice and Leyline of the Void (Moon / Steel Stompy), a great Miracles pilot, and regular Czech pile (although I'm positive so far, the combination of DRS, Hymn, and Leo is brutal).
    Czech seems rough if you let the game go long.

    With Chalice decks, is it the combination of artifact prison piece+leyline that is the issue? I never feel like Chalice alone is enough to stop me, as they usually plop it on 1, and none of the combo pieces beyond Entomb or Ritual get hit by it, so I end up overpowering them in most games. That being said, I run White and therefore Serenity, so I can pop Leyline+Chalice/3sphere with one card.
    Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
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    Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

  5. #245
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    I went 3-1 at the CK weekly again, beating Wizard tribal, Punishing Czech x2, and losing to white Aluren. I updated the spreadsheet, but man that took way longer than I expected. Not sure I'll go into that much detail again.

    So far the only decks I'm afraid to see are decks with Chalice and Leyline of the Void (Moon / Steel Stompy), a great Miracles pilot, and regular Czech pile (although I'm positive so far, the combination of DRS, Hymn, and Leo is brutal).
    Slow Depths looked pretty unfavorable when you were testing against it a couple weeks ago. That said, I think this deck is very strong.

  6. #246

    Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    I took bizarro for a premiere ride at our LGS today and went 2-1. I played the same MD as phazon but a rather iffy mana base and a not thought trough sideboard
    4 gravestones
    1 trop
    3 decay
    2 echoing truths
    2 search azcanta - for grinding power
    1 xantid swarm
    1 therapy - against combo/ heavy permission decks
    1 divert - to fight hymn
    Our meta is usually pretty midrange-y, hence the grind cards, but i got paired like it was MTGO. I'm actually considering pure grixis board next time. Abrade instead of decay.

    Started out with a bye
    Grixis delver 0-2.. probably kept too slow hands
    Show n tell 2-1 very fun and interactive games. Won both matches by putting in griselbrand off his show and tell
    Grixis delver 2-1 he scooped to griselbrand both games

    Deck was both fun and good, but i think we need some kind of anti delver tech. I'm going to explore empty the warrens.

  7. #247
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    Our meta is usually pretty midrange-y, hence the grind cards, but i got paired like it was MTGO. I'm actually considering pure grixis board next time. Abrade instead of decay.
    [...]
    Deck was both fun and good, but i think we need some kind of anti delver tech. I'm going to explore empty the warrens.
    Not sure why you're playing a green splash if you're not running Carpet. You're right that the green build doesn't have any really unique effects compared to Grixis otherwise. It has come up that Decay gets through Chalice on 2, kills RiP, or kills a hatebear through permission, but it's marginal.

    Empty is sweet but I found Carpet by itself was enough against Delver. If the mana taxing plan is shut off, it's hard for them to convert their cards into stopping you unless they draw Probe + Therapy.
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  8. #248
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    Not sure why you're playing a green splash if you're not running Carpet. You're right that the green build doesn't have any really unique effects compared to Grixis otherwise. It has come up that Decay gets through Chalice on 2, kills RiP, or kills a hatebear through permission, but it's marginal.

    Empty is sweet but I found Carpet by itself was enough against Delver. If the mana taxing plan is shut off, it's hard for them to convert their cards into stopping you unless they draw Probe + Therapy.
    This.

    Carpet is a powerhouse against Delver and similarly Miracles. I've had Delver players Wasteland themselves to keep Carpet from getting out of hand.
    Also, sometimes you just have to jam and try to plow through all their countermagic with discard and excess business. They do run out eventually. What matters is that they run out before you get clocked to death with the bug.


    Speaking of the spreadsheet:

    I think the poor D&T matches (at least reported) isn't really due to their hatebears (directly). We have plenty of ways of wiping their board or killing/bouncing problem creatures. I think the problem is that they have almost all moved away from playing RiP in favor of playing Faerie Macabre and Surgical to fight BR Reanimator. Thus, we get hit with some of the splash damage.

  9. #249

    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Yeah i can totally get behind carpet of flowers and have two in my binder. The reason i didnt bring them was i didnt expected to face delver. I think i faced the only two grixis delver players in the room of 35 people?
    Loving the feedback tough.
    My first SB draft were much greener with deed, ground seal and krosan grip.
    Have any of you tested search for azcanta?

    EDIT: Btw game 1 versus show n tell I didn't get to put in Griselbrand with show n tell, but Magus.
    So i got to untap with 3 lands, an active magus and ~6 cards in hand. That was sweet!
    Also: If magus had been Children of Korlis I would have died to emrakul swing next turn.
    Last edited by JackaBo; 06-14-2018 at 08:27 AM.

  10. #250
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bit9mm View Post
    I think the poor D&T matches (at least reported) isn't really due to their hatebears (directly). We have plenty of ways of wiping their board or killing/bouncing problem creatures. I think the problem is that they have almost all moved away from playing RiP in favor of playing Faerie Macabre and Surgical to fight BR Reanimator. Thus, we get hit with some of the splash damage.
    I was reading their guide on Tinfins the other day and they do mention swapping to FM and Surgical if Tinfins and BR are the more popular GY decks in your area.

    I think that it's still safe to hedge towards them having RiP/Containment Priest in g2, but be ready to swap countermeasures if you see FM/Surgical in g2; this is all assuming you're playing against a stock D&T player. If you know what hate your D&T players are packing, obviously adjust accordingly.

    How I board against them:

    If RiP/Containment Priest:

    +2 Massacre
    +0-2 Chain of Vapor

    -2-4 Ponder
    -0-1 Griselbrand

    If Surgical or Macabre:

    +2 Massacre
    +2-3 Silent Gravestone

    -3-4 Ponder
    -1 Griselbrand
    -0-1 CoBru


    Trying to board in excess hate is bad news versus D&T, and we don't have clunkers like Duress in the main deck that are easy to cut. Ponder is definitely an easy cut, and 3rd Griselbrand is another easy shave. I think you can shave one CoBru if you are running 3 of them, but the creature kill mode is nice to have, if a bit slow in the face of Thalia.
    Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
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    Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
    https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

  11. #251
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I was reading their guide on Tinfins the other day and they do mention swapping to FM and Surgical if Tinfins and BR are the more popular GY decks in your area.

    I think that it's still safe to hedge towards them having RiP/Containment Priest in g2, but be ready to swap countermeasures if you see FM/Surgical in g2; this is all assuming you're playing against a stock D&T player. If you know what hate your D&T players are packing, obviously adjust accordingly.

    How I board against them:

    If RiP/Containment Priest:

    +2 Massacre
    +0-2 Chain of Vapor

    -2-4 Ponder
    -0-1 Griselbrand

    If Surgical or Macabre:

    +2 Massacre
    +2-3 Silent Gravestone

    -3-4 Ponder
    -1 Griselbrand
    -0-1 CoBru


    Trying to board in excess hate is bad news versus D&T, and we don't have clunkers like Duress in the main deck that are easy to cut. Ponder is definitely an easy cut, and 3rd Griselbrand is another easy shave. I think you can shave one CoBru if you are running 3 of them, but the creature kill mode is nice to have, if a bit slow in the face of Thalia.
    I find myself bringing in 2 Decays, 1 Massacre, 2 Chain and the Trop against an unknown consideration. It may be overkill, but they have so many tools against us post-board, it's hard not to.

    If they get me with Macabre or Surgical in G2, then I get got. But, if they have it and you're able to buy yourself time by killing their bears, you have a decent chance of beating a single piece of GY interaction.

    G3 is where you get to board properly, usually knowing their full hate suite (assuming you didn't lose G1 and 2).

  12. #252
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Hey all, I've been fiddling with an extract of the data (pulled June 14th) from our shared data sheet, and made a Tableau dashboard with the data. It's not super fancy, and there are definitely holes in the data, but I feel it's fairly informative.

    You can find the dashboard here


    Note, it's definitely a work in progress, as I'm going to continue tinkering with it during down time at work (and adding more data to the extract whenever we get another solid set of entries to the data sheet).
    Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
    @acclimation6 on twitter
    Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
    https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

  13. #253

    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Nice work!

    If only i had LEDs

  14. #254
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    In doing some research on various hate cards that decks are playing, I'm noticing an increase in the number of Containment Priest being played.

    I think for Green Splash lists, Abrupt Decay is already coming in against the decks that play it (D&T, Miracles, Stoneblade, Deadguy, pretty much every white deck), so that's probably a sufficient answer to the card (especially since you can use it to answer the card with reanimation on the stack).

    White splash lists might have to lean a bit harder on Chain of Vapor as an answer, or otherwise consider running something like Swords to Plowshares in the side (which I've done with Tinfins in the past with a fair amount of success). Another option is to use Silence as a way to bait it out, then use CoBru to remove it before going off.

    Grixis lists have Abrade and Rending Volley as 2 good options, as well as Chain.

    Has anyone playing Green tried City of Solitude yet? It's a bit expensive at 3 cmc, but a resolved copy means you don't have to worry about interaction on your turn, at the loss of being able to Entomb or Brainstorm or fetch on your opponent's turn. Considering that a lot of non-chalice decks are using a large blend of interactive spells (flash creatures, surgical, counter magic, DRS, Karakas), it might be a worthy inclusion.
    Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
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    Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
    https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

  15. #255

    Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Went 2-2 today. Won against lands and elves and lost against deadguy ale and deathblade.
    Gravestones were awesome.
    Carpet was deece
    Azcanta was too slow

    Deck is kinda hard because it's not certain if you're a T1 deck or you can grind. Intuitively i feel that the deck need more action, but that may come from inexperience. Boarding is also hard because the space is so tight.
    Last edited by JackaBo; 06-21-2018 at 02:26 AM.

  16. #256
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    Deck is kinda hard because it's not certain of you're a T1 deck or you can grind. Intuitively i feel that the deck need more action, but that may come from inexperience. Boarding is also hard because the space is so tight.
    The weird thing is, is that the deck is a little bit of both. The t1 potential is pretty high, and drawing 21 cards is a super easy way to win the game, especially with all the fast mana. You also have the ability to grind pretty well, as you can just jam Reanimation spells until one sticks, or draw Past in Flames and just recast everything from before. You can rebuild pretty easily too, as dude in the yard+reanimation can just turn the game around.

    As far as more action, I've been wondering if I can cram another Corpse Dance in, or maybe another PiF or MA, just to have a little bit more business, as I've often found myself in situations where I just need one piece of action to get there. It's possible that cutting a cantrip might be right, but I'm not 100% on that just yet.
    Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
    @acclimation6 on twitter
    Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
    https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

  17. #257

    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    3-0 at a weekly, broke my losing streak! Will update the spreadsheet with my past few weeks of games tomorrow since it's getting pretty late.

    After a few weeks of the local meta being all over the place, I decided to say screw it and just try to win faster. With that in mind, I played this 75:


    3 Griselbrand
    1 Magus of the Mind

    2 Chrome Mox
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual

    2 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Cabal Therapy
    1 Thoughtseize
    2 Collective Brutality
    4 Entomb
    1 Mastermind's Acquisition
    1 Past in Flames

    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Corpse Dance
    1 Unburial Rites

    1 Bayou
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    2 Underground Sea

    Sideboard:
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Xantid Swarm
    2 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Chain of Vapor
    3 Silent Gravestone
    1 Thoughtseize
    2 Echoing Truth
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Tendrils of Agony


    MVP was definitely unburial rites, made the deck so much faster. Had several turn one's because of it. Even if you fizzle after drawing 14 instead of 21 it sticks around, which is usually good enough. Matches were mostly uneventful, couple of death and taxes and a sneak and show. I cut two brainstorms to make room for it and the fourth LED, reasoning that usually we're looking for specific cards, and ponder is better at that than brainstorm since it sees one more card.

    Only notable game was game 3 against sneak and show, where he got a grafdigger's cage into play and I could not find bounce for the life of me. The solution was to hard-cast griselbrand by cracking LEDs in response to a cantrip. Good times.

    Still not sure how I feel about the trop in the sideboard, if I cut anything that's probably the one. I'm pretty happy with this 75 for now though.

  18. #258
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    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You don't get to play the most powerful cards in the format and then bitch when someone finally says no. You also don't get to bitch that it's not fun when someone finally tells you no instead of voyeuristicly watching you masturbate with Cantrips.

  19. #259

    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavec View Post
    3-0 at a weekly, broke my losing streak! Will update the spreadsheet with my past few weeks of games tomorrow since it's getting pretty late.

    After a few weeks of the local meta being all over the place, I decided to say screw it and just try to win faster. With that in mind, I played this 75:


    3 Griselbrand
    1 Magus of the Mind

    2 Chrome Mox
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual

    2 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Cabal Therapy
    1 Thoughtseize
    2 Collective Brutality
    4 Entomb
    1 Mastermind's Acquisition
    1 Past in Flames

    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Corpse Dance
    1 Unburial Rites

    1 Bayou
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    2 Underground Sea

    Sideboard:
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Xantid Swarm
    2 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Chain of Vapor
    3 Silent Gravestone
    1 Thoughtseize
    2 Echoing Truth
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Tendrils of Agony


    MVP was definitely unburial rites, made the deck so much faster. Had several turn one's because of it. Even if you fizzle after drawing 14 instead of 21 it sticks around, which is usually good enough. Matches were mostly uneventful, couple of death and taxes and a sneak and show. I cut two brainstorms to make room for it and the fourth LED, reasoning that usually we're looking for specific cards, and ponder is better at that than brainstorm since it sees one more card.

    Only notable game was game 3 against sneak and show, where he got a grafdigger's cage into play and I could not find bounce for the life of me. The solution was to hard-cast griselbrand by cracking LEDs in response to a cantrip. Good times.

    Still not sure how I feel about the trop in the sideboard, if I cut anything that's probably the one. I'm pretty happy with this 75 for now though.
    Wow ok I am not the only one who doesn't want 4 brainstorms. I found myself not wanting more fetches but getting brainstorm "locked" More times than I can count. I still ran 3x cutting the 4th for a probe as info is far more important in my opinion but you mention wanting to be faster and brainstorm is faster than ponder as it lets you keep up to 3 cards if you plan on winning that turn.

  20. #260

    Re: Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand)

    There is something to be said for that aspect of brainstorm, but I felt like ponder seeing a card deeper if necessary and not locking you was better.

    1-1 this week, kept some suspect hands against UR delver, and beat BR reanimator. They were really not expecting silent gravestones, it was great.

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