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Thread: UBg Death's Shadow

  1. #41

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Pro Tour 25A Team CFB Top 4 Legacy

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Death's Shadow
    4 Street Wraith
    2 Gurmag Angler

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Snuff Out
    2 Fatal Push
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    1 Preordain
    4 Daze
    2 Stubborn Denial
    4 Force of Will

    3 Watery Grave
    2 Underground Sea
    4 Wasteland
    (9 Fetchlands)
    1 Flats
    1 Tarn
    1 Delta
    1 Rainforest
    1 Strand
    2 Mire
    2 Catacombs

    3 Dread of Night
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Throne of Geth
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Diabolic Edict

    Interesting Notes:
    a) 1 Preordain over 4th Ponder as a hedge, because in the late game you won't want to play a third or 4th land to get a shuffle effect
    b) Throne of Geth as anti-chalice tech (You proliferate the charge counters from 1 to 2, which means it doesn't counter any of your cards anymore and now counters the opponent's 2 drops, including further chalice on 1, Grim Monolith, Arcbound Ravager, etc)
    The list plays 2 copies of MD Reanimate as well.

  2. #42

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    I feel that this deck was just a great meta game call. Not sure how this would do at a GP or even a local tournament. D&T and Burn are very tough matchups.


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  3. #43

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by CovenantElite30 View Post
    I feel that this deck was just a great meta game call. Not sure how this would do at a GP or even a local tournament. D&T and Burn are very tough matchups.

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    I wouldn't dismiss it so easily, Wraptor has been playing UB Shadow since before DRS ban in legacy. See his GP Vegas list here which is very similar to what he played this weekend. Burn MU is very similar to modern -- they can't throw burn at your face until they're going to kill you. And you can sandbag your counterspells for their lethal spells and kill them on swing back.

    Look at that SB, you really think D&T is a tough MU?

  4. #44

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaono View Post
    I wouldn't dismiss it so easily, Wraptor has been playing UB Shadow since before DRS ban in legacy. See his GP Vegas list here which is very similar to what he played this weekend. Burn MU is very similar to modern -- they can't throw burn at your face until they're going to kill you. And you can sandbag your counterspells for their lethal spells and kill them on swing back.

    Look at that SB, you really think D&T is a tough MU?
    I totally want the deck to be good. I think you can tune the sideboard to definitely beat D&T. Now the this deck is getting more attention the deck will probably get better tuned. I could see a lot of modern players playing it now, which is good for the format.


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  5. #45
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    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by CovenantElite30 View Post
    I totally want the deck to be good. I think you can tune the sideboard to definitely beat D&T. Now the this deck is getting more attention the deck will probably get better tuned. I could see a lot of modern players playing it now, which is good for the format.


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    It's getting played in a Team Trios format. This build that's doing well lacks ability to rebuild (Wraith vs Library), has low threat density (Wraith vs threat), or remove a Counterbalance in a time when SCM/1-drop removal is at a high point (Snuff Out vs Decay). It's frequently hardest matchup was banned (Grixis Delver) making it the largely unchallenged best Gurmag deck....but you're counting on teammates to carry you when you run into mono-removal recursion piles. It's much easier to get ahead by committing to running over do-something strategies when a team allows you to lose to Tundra and not necessarily add 1 to the loss bracket.
    Last edited by Fox; 08-06-2018 at 02:07 AM.

  6. #46

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Does anyone have a link to the discord (if there is one) because this threat seems to be dead?

  7. #47

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow


  8. #48
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    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Ben Friedman put out a Death's Shadow article on SCG.

  9. #49

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    I have just readed through the thread and the article. The deck looks very interesting and a lot of fun to play, so I am thinking of buying into it. But not sure how the deck will perform in the long term. Do you guys think Shadow could become an etablished deck in the format with constant good results? Right now I am searching for a new deck which I can build up from a UB pool. I just wanted to buy Bu Reanimator but now I am thinking of Death`s Shadow instead of it... Which deck do you think would be a better long term investment?

    Has someone thoughted of a mini G-Splash for main deck Berserk maybe with a 3. Angler, 3 Decay and one Silvan Library in the board?

  10. #50
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    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    @Sinkhole if you want a more in-depth look at Shadow theory read through this thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ath%27s+shadow. This is probably the best place on the source to read about shadow's weaknesses and the backwards way UB decks have to deal with Tundra. Though set in the time of DRS being legal, it calls all the shots from Last Hope to Reanimate to 3x Dread of Night to Stubborn Denial.

    Just be aware, the PT list is not meant to compete outside of team format. It is skewed past the post of unwinnable against both Tundra and Lands. The intent was to cheese wins off the back of MD Reanimate, MD Snuff Out, 3x Dread, 2x proliferate effects, and zero basics.

  11. #51

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Also helping the opponent Killing yourself is an inherently bad strategy. Sure, this deck gets away with it from time to time. But you will end up in awkward situations that other tempo decks doesnt end up in.
    For example in match 11, G1 of the pro tour: Leyton have to fow a revoker, with like no relevant targets, just because it's a two turn clock due to self inflicted damage.
    Thoughtseize and reanimate is one thing, but street wraith and modern lands are not good enough.
    One thing i have to say though is that the deck looks very strong in the tempo mirror.

  12. #52

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    @Sinkhole if you want a more in-depth look at Shadow theory read through this thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ath%27s+shadow. This is probably the best place on the source to read about shadow's weaknesses and the backwards way UB decks have to deal with Tundra. Though set in the time of DRS being legal, it calls all the shots from Last Hope to Reanimate to 3x Dread of Night to Stubborn Denial.

    Just be aware, the PT list is not meant to compete outside of team format. It is skewed past the post of unwinnable against both Tundra and Lands. The intent was to cheese wins off the back of MD Reanimate, MD Snuff Out, 3x Dread, 2x proliferate effects, and zero basics.
    Ok so wouldn`t you recommend Shadow`s for regulary, competive play in general or does the list just need an adjustment? Or is it just better to invest my money in another deck?

  13. #53

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    I think this deck is here to stay. You can probably beat Tundra by dropping a Bitterblossom or splashing G for Library, both of those seem extremely strong. Hymn over Reanimate can probably help as well. You can also sometimes just tempo them out. The combo match up seems very good with this deck. Running more cantrips than other decks means you will get to your hate quicker, not only against combo but matches where you can throw out a silver bullet (Dread of Nigh I’m looking at you).

    Slapping some basic Islands probably wouldn’t be that bad either.

  14. #54
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    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    I wouldn't recommend Shadow as a UB-only deck, no. Incorporate green and Thought Scour while dropping Street Wraith, or you lock yourself into linear play patterns with almost no chance of ever beating the bad matchups. If you want to play UB with Street Wraith then count up the Tundra decks in your local meta and figure out the math on how many losses you already took before a 3-4 round event ever fired (also be aware that Tundra decks are incredibly consistent, and the odds of facing one increases with each winning round).

    Shadow is a fine deck to get into the format with one dual at a time, but your introductory deck should probably avoid trying to make you hate the format. There's only so many utterly hopeless losses one can take, and all it takes to hate out linear Wraith/Shadow decks is one Ensnaring Bridge...

    @Kanti this deck has at best 11 playable threats which all lose to SCM/StP thanks to Street Wraith. Of those 11, only the 4x Delver can come down early with Daze/Wasteland support (oops, you have +4 cards that don't flip your best and only turn 1 threat - good work Street Wraith!). Games against Tundra are going long and with their ability to exile 7-8 creatures with life gain, making it really hard to ever deploy 2 creatures to the board if one is called Shadow. They get a CB down and it's there to stay; they float a 1 on top and you have 2-3 creature threats left in your deck with keyword delve which they can either counter or -1 JTMS. This deck's plan against Tundra is hope they get there with Last Hope ult; that's a tall order against ~16 cantrips digging towards CJ, Mentor, and/or EE.

  15. #55

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    I have done a few testings today and here are my impressions...
    I have never planed on playing it straight UB i currently playing it UBg with a light Splash for Berserk main and 3 Decay in the board. I only play 2 Wastelands because without Stifle the Tempo-Landdestruction-Plan isn`t efficent enough to being worthy. Now I have two Slots for Berserk and the second Reanimate, with that stupid Wraith could become a thread and that deck hardly need more treaths. Further counting the angler amount up to 3. Maybe now I should add Thought Scour over Ponder and maybe I can go down to 3 Wraiths and having room for a second Berserk or Silvan Library, but I haven`t tested it so far. Just thoughts!

    My current list:

    Main:
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Death`s Shadow
    3 Gurmag Angler

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    2 Stubborn Denial
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Dismember
    2 Reanimate
    1 Berserk

    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Misty Rainforest
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Watery Grave
    1 Bayou
    1 Breeding Pool
    2 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Liliana the last Hope
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Winter Orb
    2 Toxic Deluge
    1 Diabolic Edict

    Looking forward to working on the deck. It`s lot of fun to play. And hopping we can develop the deck to push it into the etablished forum

    Greetz
    Sinkhole

  16. #56

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Why do you like Dismember #2 over Snuff Out #1?

  17. #57
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    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    I'm not him, but here are two reasons:
    1. There are situations in the late game where you don't have 4 mana to hardcast Snuff Out but also can't afford to pay 4 life. Dismember lets you manage that life loss way better.
    2. Not hitting black creatures is a serious drawback against Grixis Control, Grixis Delver and the mirror.

    I cut Snuff Out a while ago.

  18. #58

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Gurmag Angler is the main reason to play Dismember. I watched Lsv playing Death's Shadow as he recorded one league and he also played one Dismember although instead of 2nd Fatal Push.

  19. #59

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Baum View Post
    I'm not him, but here are two reasons:
    1. There are situations in the late game where you don't have 4 mana to hardcast Snuff Out but also can't afford to pay 4 life. Dismember lets you manage that life loss way better.
    2. Not hitting black creatures is a serious drawback against Grixis Control, Grixis Delver and the mirror.

    I cut Snuff Out a while ago.
    That are the main reasons for cutting snuff out! And it hits an opponent`s angler and sometimes an early Shadow in the mirror.

  20. #60

    Re: UBg Death's Shadow

    Thank you. I see some of you don't play even a single DoN, is this pretty standard now?

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