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Thread: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

  1. #1
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    How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    I'm wondering how everyone feels the printing of an "Angelic Spirit Guide" would affect legacy. Besides the obvious inclusion in DnT and white stompy lists, I think it would give a needed boost to maverick and potentially dethrone grixis delver. Would it be too OP? Other thoughts?

    {2}{W}
    Creature — Angel Spirit
    Card Text:
    Exile Angelic Spirit Guide from your hand: Add {W} to your mana pool.

  2. #2

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    What does that card do for Maverick that Elvish Spirit Guide doesn't already accomplish? Nobody plays Elvish Spirit Guide, to my knowledge.

    It could potentially be an additional mana source for Belcher or Oops, and it probably would be fine in Eldrazi and taxes or Angel Stompy, but I don't know that Spirit Guides are something we need more of in the format, especially in white, where it doesn't make color pie sense.

  3. #3

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    What about a zombie spirit guide?

    ZSG - 2B
    Exile ~this~ from your graveyard, add B.
    "you can smell it dying a mile a way"
    2/2
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    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Maverick would rather have green guide and already doesn't play it. White guide would really just be for hate bear decks to beat combo by playing hate bear turn 1.
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  5. #5

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Maverick would rather have green guide and already doesn't play it. White guide would really just be for hate bear decks to beat combo by playing hate bear turn 1.
    But Hatebear decks could already play Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, and either spirit guide (for colorless cost. Only color intensive hatebar off the top of my head is Gaddock Teeg - in which case elvish spirit guide is probably best since most of your lands would tap for W) to power out T1 hatebear.

    My guess is that "Angelic" would not see play.

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    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    What about a zombie spirit guide?

    ZSG - 2B
    Exile ~this~ from your graveyard, add B.
    "you can smell it dying a mile a way"
    2/2
    Now this card is sexy...exiling from the graveyard probably makes it too strong, however. Dredge and all that.
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    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    A thought I had:

    if they printed a Spirit Guide for any color, something like Pay n life, exile ~ Spirit Guide from your hand: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool.
    What would n have to be before it's balanced?
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  8. #8

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    As a long time D&T player, I would try it out in order to churn out turn 1 Thalia's. Probably more of a sideboard card cause I'd really only want it for combo matchups, but I've played Chrome Mox in my sideboard before and this isn't card disadvantage.

  9. #9

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    In addition to putting out Thalia turn 1, a white spirit guide lets White decks have a very bad Force of Will combo - Mana Tithe. You could do that already with Elvish and Guttural Response, or Simian and REB, so likely not playable anyway despite being limited in application.
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  10. #10

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeckBird View Post
    As a long time D&T player, I would try it out in order to churn out turn 1 Thalia's. Probably more of a sideboard card cause I'd really only want it for combo matchups, but I've played Chrome Mox in my sideboard before and this isn't card disadvantage.
    If you're interested in this effect, why not just play Lotus Petal?

  11. #11

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Quote Originally Posted by rlesko View Post
    If you're interested in this effect, why not just play Lotus Petal?
    A Spirit Guide wouldn't be affected by a Thalia already in play and it can't get Force'd and it at the very least has an alternate use of being a 2/2. Chrome Mox also continues to tap for mana every turn while Petal is a one time use.

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    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    I think ASG would definitely see play in legacy. Lotus petal is inferior for white decks because it uses the stack and telegraphs your ability to pay {1} for daze. SSG and ESG are inferior for hatebear decks because they cannot be used to in conjunction with colorless mana (wasteland, port, tomb, city). Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond present a different dynamic with card disadvantage and permanent mana.

    I believe it'd be a great printing and would give rise to a white dragon stompy-esque chalice deck with white planeswalkers, thalias and the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    What about a zombie spirit guide?

    ZSG - 2B
    Exile ~this~ from your graveyard, add B.
    "you can smell it dying a mile a way"
    2/2
    This would also be very cool - and IMO not totally OP for dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    A thought I had:

    if they printed a Spirit Guide for any color, something like Pay n life, exile ~ Spirit Guide from your hand: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool.
    What would n have to be before it's balanced?
    N= 4-6

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    What does that card do for Maverick that Elvish Spirit Guide doesn't already accomplish? Nobody plays Elvish Spirit Guide, to my knowledge.

    It could potentially be an additional mana source for Belcher or Oops, and it probably would be fine in Eldrazi and taxes or Angel Stompy, but I don't know that Spirit Guides are something we need more of in the format, especially in white, where it doesn't make color pie sense.
    I agree - it's probably not great for maverick in it's current form - although I'd bet a new iteration would be viable with sol lands, full sets of ESG and ASG, GSZ, and lots of {2}{G} and {2}{W} creatures.

  13. #13

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeckBird View Post
    A Spirit Guide wouldn't be affected by a Thalia already in play and it can't get Force'd and it at the very least has an alternate use of being a 2/2. Chrome Mox also continues to tap for mana every turn while Petal is a one time use.
    Thats irrelevant- if they have a force of will your turn 1 hatebear is not resolving regardless of lotus petal vs chrome mox vs spirit guide (unless cavern is involved, in which case, this line of play is ALREADY available to you via cavern + elvish / simian).

    Don't shift the conversation here- you originally said you might play the hypothetical card to power out turn 1 hatebears- you haven't pointed out a plausible unique scenario where a white spirit guide would do the job and elvish / simian / chrome mox / petal wouldn't.

  14. #14

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Nice idea, but we all know the next Spirit Guide will be a Merfolk.
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    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    A thought I had:

    if they printed a Spirit Guide for any color, something like Pay n life, exile ~ Spirit Guide from your hand: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool.
    What would n have to be before it's balanced?
    I think 5 life probably makes the most sense. Puts you in aggro range pretty quickly when combined with fetches/painlands of various flavors, and it's a quarter of your starting total—totally something black would make you pay for even faster fast mana.

    Of course, there won't be blue or black Spirit Guides because the things you can do in any format with that speed in those colors would be hideously oppressive—ly awesome. I dare to dream. All Spells, REPRESENT.
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    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    My friends and I always joke around with "what if" cards and we came up with the Spirit Guide that makes a U only to be spent on artifact spells. We had a pretty long debate on if it were too strong or not.

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  17. #17

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    What about a zombie spirit guide?

    ZSG - 2B
    Exile ~this~ from your graveyard, add B.
    "you can smell it dying a mile a way"
    2/2
    Now this would be amazing. I think I'll go sleep thinking about that one.

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    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    White spirit guide for white eldrazi decks might be interesting. So many turn 1 Thalia Heretic Cathar. That makes me happy. I mean it's still not better than cantrip decks but I'd play it. Black zombie guide in that iteration is probably busted, but I couldn't tell you why. I'm just confident it's somehow broken
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  19. #19

    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    As much as I would love to see a ZSG printing, its really wishful thinking. I think flavor wise exile from the graveyard is the correct move, but that negates the disadvantage of a card in hand for mana like the rest, so the tempo is a little different. Maybe exile it from your hand AND a creature from the yard for b? That might be too conditional, but I don't know. Off the top of my head, in the original form, I see it benefiting in the following way:

    -It helps dredge get additional tempo (something no one except dredge players want) while feeding ichorid
    -it can be pitched to a collective brutality along with another fatty (if one isn't in the yard already) and acts as a lotus petal for a dark rit/reanimation
    -If someone goes old school and dark rits into a buried alive, then 1 fatty and 2 ZSG could be pitched and now you can afford almost all reanimation spells.
    -self protects from surgical/targeted grave hate cards
    -if its in play, works well with "sac a creature" effects as it generates tempo.
    -with a sac/discard outlet, helps defeat daze (that is kind of a stretch)
    -late(r) game ramp in more limited environments
    -Curving out/nullifying cards with drawbacks that say "as an additional cost, discard a card"


    I'm sure there would be many more, that was just what I could come up with quickly.
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    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
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    Re: How would the printing of Angelic Spirit Guide affect the format?

    Careful study / faithless looting, discard griselbrand and ZSG, reanimate?
    I do think that would be terribly oppressing.

    Same for, pay x life, add one the colour of your choice: it would be played in T1 decks such as belcher, oops, ... Not something I would deem desirable.

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